C2C: Promotions

[Koshling]

I can't find where the First Aid promotions are. They are probably somewhere obvious, but ten minutes of searching my SVN copy found nothing useful.

PROMOTION_MEDIC1, PROMOTION_MEDIC2, PROMOTION_MEDIC3 are all in the main promotions file in xml/units - are those not the ones?

 

[ls612]

PROMOTION_MEDIC1, PROMOTION_MEDIC2, PROMOTION_MEDIC3 are all in the main promotions file in xml/units - are those not the ones?

Yes, and that's why I missed them, I didn't know they were called MEDIC. Oh well, I should be able to find things by now, but occasionally you feel like a noob modder again.

 

[ls612]

OK, I've almost done the Canine promotions, and I was thinking of doing a few things to the Assassin line next. The issue I have with them is that they get so many bonuses at the start, which terrain promotions can then stack with and IMO that causes balance issues. My proposals are;

Assassin Unitcombat (or whatever name is best, I'm open to suggestions)

Will be a subcombat for all of the Assassin line units.

I would then like to remove all of the built-in Terrain bonuses those units get and make some new promotions.

All-Terrain Killer I/II/III
Req Promotion: Combat II
Req Tech: None

• +15% Attack in Forests, Hills, Peaks, Jungle, Marsh, etc per level

Criminal's Defense I/II/III
Req Promotion: Combat II
Req Tech: None

• +15% Defense in Forests, Hills, Peaks, Jungle, Marsh, etc per level

Also, I would like to give Dog units +25% vs Assassins, as well as another promotion line.

Crime Sniffer I/II/III
Req Promotion: Hunting Dog I
Req Tech: Dog Breeding

• +20% vs Assassins per level

I'm open to new names for these promotion lines. What does everyone (Hydro specifically) think about this?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

1. Is "Assassins" for just the one assassin unit or all thieves,rogues, etc?

2. I think we have a lot of other good terrain promtions that we should probabl not have one for that line too.

3. "All-Terrain Killer" needs a better name. How about "Darkstalker" or "Shadowstalker".

4. "Criminal's Defense" could be called "Decoy" instead.

5. Instead of "Crime Sniffer" how about call it "Bloodhound"?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here is at least the Track Scent I, II and III icon/buttons.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I think the Assassin Unit Combat should simply be part of the Criminal UnitCombat line which would include rogues and such. I just see assassins as a step up that same chain.

I also think they should have a line that helps them withdraw extremely effectively. I'll try to introduce the new tags tonight so you can feel comfortable beginning to apply them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here are some more icon/buttons. They include Bark, Howl, Stalk Prey, Pack Hunting I, II and III.

 

[strategyonly]

@ls612

Is "Assassins" for just the one assassin unit or all thieves,rogues, etc?

I think the Assassin Unit Combat should simply be part of the Criminal UnitCombat line which would include rogues and such. I just see assassins as a step up that same chain.

I also think they should have a line that helps them withdraw extremely effectively. I'll try to introduce the new tags tonight so you can feel comfortable beginning to apply them.

I agree here, no need for excessive UnitCombat names, btw can we get rid of that Combat_combat_Worker naming, or do you still have ideas for that??

I am really liking TB ideas lately he is coming up with some GREAT stuff, i really like the GP stuff coming, can yo get with Koshling on that, because he is currently working on the AI evaluation etc.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Thanks SO! Make sure to check out the most recent combat mod intro too

But yeah, I figure we'll work out those combat workers eventually so I don't mind leaving it in there until we do.

But do be patient with the Anti-GP idea... its going to take a lot of work and very coordinated effort and we've got a lot to do to update the whole mod to the Combat Mod system still. (among all the AI improvements and multi-player fixes we need too)

 

[Nimek]

If i understand correct special units lines as

- canine
- rogue/assasins
- crime fighting

will have some special for them independent promotion lines. If yes it is very very cool

 

[strategyonly]

now fixed

 

[Nimek]

@strategy

Looks like a part of new combat mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=476047

Look at retraining functionality. You can replace one promotion to another. I dont know does it should work for subdued units too

 

[Koshling]

OK guys, what is this all about? I got something like this for units also, like losing their Commando, Marauder etc??

That was the bug I fixed yesterday that promotions given by Python were not given as free promotions, which means that the combat mod now removes them unless they have unitCombat classes that match the units in question (those don't have any unitCombats).

However, the fix can't work for units that already had them and those still get stripped. It should work for all units created since the fix, but existing games are slightly screwed because of the combat mod promotion obsoleting code that is used to determine what should be removed and allowed to be retrained (see TB's post on the details of how that SHOULD work - current SVN matches that behavior, but only for units that were created after the fix).

@TB - maybe you should add a load-time check that flags all promotions the unit has 'inexplicably' (i.e. - that canKeepPromotion claims it shouldn't) as free. That would save old games...

 

[strategyonly]

That was the bug I fixed yesterday that promotions given by Python were not given as free promotions, which means that the combat mod now removes them unless they have unitCombat classes that match the units in question (those don't have any unitCombats).

However, the fix can't work for units that already had them and those still get stripped. It should work for all units created since the fix, but existing games are slightly screwed because of the combat mod promotion obsoleting code that is used to determine what should be removed and allowed to be retrained (see TB's post on the details of how that SHOULD work - current SVN matches that behavior, but only for units that were created after the fix).

@TB - maybe you should add a load-time check that flags all promotions the unit has 'inexplicably' (i.e. - that canKeepPromotion claims it shouldn't) as free. That would save old games...

Thats ok, i am just going to re-start another NEW game then, no biggy. Thx for the details.

 

[Koshling]

Is it intended that the martial arts promotions given by the Taoism religious buildings are only available if Taoism is not only present, but is also your state religion??

The combat mod changes are highlighting this, because they cause you to LOSE those promotions if you have them but Taoism is not your state religion (i.e. - you lose them when you switch out).

Now, there are two things here:

1. Actively losing state-religion-prereq'd promotions when you switch out of that religion is a change caused by the combat mod, and I'm pretty sure it was what TB intended (but might not have been obvious to the other modders, or indeed players)
2. It seems to me that the presence of the religion (as is implied by the buildings) in the constructing city ought to be good enough - not sure why they require it to be the state religion also - that's more one for the buildings' owner (DH??)

Edit - also why does PROMOTION_SPEED require PROMOTION_COMBAT4 or PROMOTION_FLANKING3 ? PROMOTION_SPEED is available to recon units - those don't seem very likely recipients of the prereqs do they?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here are more icon/buttons. This time its for Rescue Dog I, II and III.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@ls612

Here are more icon/buttons. This time its for Racing Dog I, II and III.

 

[Nevets_]

OK, I've almost done the Canine promotions, and I was thinking of doing a few things to the Assassin line next. The issue I have with them is that they get so many bonuses at the start, which terrain promotions can then stack with and IMO that causes balance issues. My proposals are;

How about:
Stealth Unitcombat (for all land stealth units)

Wilderness Ambush

Wilderness Camouflage

Canine Patrol

The first two be better if they were just named Ambush and Camouflage, but there are already promotions with those names...

What about a promotion line named Skirmisher (or Hit and Run, but again there already is one of those) that gives the unit:

+Withdraw, -Strength, increases chance of crippling promotions. Later promotions might also give them heal while moving and -terrain cost.

I've always seen the stealth units as small groups of soldiers that didn't actually try to fight and kill the enemy, but assassinate leaders, disrupt supply caravans, block roads, shoot a couple sentries and run away, weakening morale.

 

[Nevets_]

Edit - also why does PROMOTION_SPEED require PROMOTION_COMBAT4 or PROMOTION_FLANKING3 ? PROMOTION_SPEED is available to recon units - those don't seem very likely recipients of the prereqs do they?

Ah, that explains why riding schools haven't been giving out that promotion in my current game. They have, but the units lose it immediately.

 

[ls612]

@Hydro:

1. The new Promotions are now on the SVN, with a couple changes. First of all, Rescue dog has only 1 level, as I thought that having too much healing on the dog would undermine the Healer unit line somewhat. Second, I didn't make the Bite line, I figure that they can just take the Combat line of promotions and that is their bite improvements.

2. Please tell me if there are any pink buttons, I think I got all of your buttons but I may have missed some.

3. I like your new sig.