C2C: Promotions

That was going to be another suggestion, what other promotions can be given to the GG that will affect the whole stack? How about march? or Arctic or Desert combat? Rommel and Montgomery were both great desert generals, and the Soviets and Finns had some who were excellent at winter combat.
 
There could be some special promotions with more variation though, like for the hero units, i.e. amphibious attack, or chance of survival, use enemy roads, etc.

OK i am liking where this is going, keep going??:p
 
Advanced as in "after" or "instead"?
Instead, certainly no, and as for after, I'm not sure. I'd regard that as nice to have, but there are more pressing concerns. Especially since it already does quite take a while to get a commander to full range and points (which will always be the priority, so that he'll level faster).

Untrue, at least with the option that allows GG level with animals/barbs. I usually have 2 completely promoted generals in the classical era. [At least in V27]

There could be some special promotions with more variation though, like for the hero units, i.e. amphibious attack, or chance of survival, use enemy roads, etc.

I would prefer some more special promotions as well. March, Amphibic Warfare, Deasert and Arctic Combat, maybe even Blitz.
 
Very much agree on increasing the diversity of general promos. Tell you what. You guys design the specifics and I'll do the graphics... fair nuff? I'll be watching for more concrete promo proposals.
 
Untrue, at least with the option that allows GG level with animals/barbs. I usually have 2 completely promoted generals in the classical era. [At least in V27]
Yeah, I eventually disabled that option just because of that. Not going so fast then. :cool:
 
Like Mountaineering promotion allows you to cross Peak early, perhaps we should have some sort of Ocean crossing promotions for boats that's really hard to get but would allow you to cross the ocean before Astronomy tech. What do you guys think?

I have always lamented the fact that the Vikings can't reach Canada and Greenland until the Rennaisance. I am all for it.
 
Like Mountaineering promotion allows you to cross Peak early, perhaps we should have some sort of Ocean crossing promotions for boats that's really hard to get but would allow you to cross the ocean before Astronomy tech. What do you guys think?

That sounds like it could easily be either overpowered, or to inaccessible to be useful. Finding a good balance between those two would be hard.
 
Is it even possible to attach a great general to a ship? If so, you could make it a GG promotion that allows you to lead other units in the stack across the ocean.
 
Have we ever discussed having Admirals (Naval Generals?) Could be very cool to do those and then include as Hydro suggests (and sets us up nicely for doing something for the Nomadic Start units that achieve a particular tech level to be able to purchase this kind of ability so we can have an accurate representation of Polynesian civ origins.)
 
Like Mountaineering promotion allows you to cross Peak early, perhaps we should have some sort of Ocean crossing promotions for boats that's really hard to get but would allow you to cross the ocean before Astronomy tech. What do you guys think?

I prefer that any ship can try it, but they have at least a 10% chance per ocean tile of sinking without trace. And that's for ships - for canoes and rafts that chance would go up to 25 to 50% per tile.

All ships (before Astronomy) should be limited to one movement in ocean, except perhaps there could be a promotion made available with a tech like Cloud Patterns, that allows an extra move by understanding the prevailing winds or whatever.

I agree with BtS (which has him as a Great Merchant) that Leif Erickson (and his dad) were great salesmen rather than great sailsmen...:D
 
Have we ever discussed having Admirals (Naval Generals?) Could be very cool to do those and then include as Hydro suggests (and sets us up nicely for doing something for the Nomadic Start units that achieve a particular tech level to be able to purchase this kind of ability so we can have an accurate representation of Polynesian civ origins.)

This was my first thought when reading the idea of an ocean crossing promotion.
Could it be made that a GG can choose a promotion that lets that GG travel over water? And then have bunch of navy specific promotions depending on that.
Another branch could be added for the air force( affecting all aircraft stationed in the same city as the GG).

specific suggestions for that subtrees:

Admiral lets the GG cross water like a ship
Raiding I,II , III I gives a slight attack bonus on coastal tiles, II a slight increase in pillaging gold on water tiles ,III an amphibious assault bonus.
Fire Support Improves damage (or maybe colateral dmg) from bombarding enemy troops ( including opportunity fire). Could easily have several ranks.
Bunker Buster Improves city bombardment dmg ( those two could have a land version as well now that I think of it)
Battleship Focus Several stages, improving Battleships with combat boni.
The same could be made for other ship types.

Integrated air support Improves airstrikes. Not sure if it would be better to have it affect stikes that come from planes stationed within the control radious, or strikes that target enemies in the control radious. maybe both, as seperate promotion lines.
City raider Improved city defence and building bombardments ( this one should definitly have the GG near the planes, not the target.
Radar Operator needs radar tech, obviously . Increases interception chance for for fighters in control zone, maybe ground based AA as well.

I also propose a promotion line just focused on making the GG move faster. That way he could keep up with late era ships or tanks.
And another line improving the fortification bonus while reducing stack movement speed. Like the first rank giving -1 movement, and doubling the rate fortify boni are gained.
Rank II: loose another movement point, more resistance to colatteral dmg
Rank III: go even slower, but increase the max defence bonus from fortification.

For land GG: Siege Master in a few ranks, increasing surround and destroy boni
What is probably hard to do but would be nice: Synergies between GG ( or units in general). Like a promotion that is present both with a GG in the city the bombers start from and a GG at the target site giving a nice bonus for those bombings. Or a special "spotter" promotion that does nothing on itself ( ok, maybe +1 sight range) but becomes powerfull if the spotter GG near the target is combined with bombing, naval bombardment or the like promotions on other GGs whereever the bombardment comes from.

And something strange for units I just thought of: Scorched Earth: whenever that unit is retreating, it gets a 50% chance of pillaging the fought over tile.
 
I think it would be much too powerful if every ship from the start could get it. Plus as we said in the other thread that the events would be taken up by boats then. Which I think means if you loose ships in the sea you help prevent fires or volcanoes from erupting. :crazyeye:

Well... not if its programmed specifically and not done via the event engine.

In fact, it could be a naval unit 'ability':Oceanworthy, the chance the unit has of surviving a round in the ocean. Every round all units in the ocean would have to make a check unless they have at least a 100% Oceanworthy rating. Storms could also influence it, as could unit damage. This could make being in the deep ocean dangerous even to more advanced ships. Then the Admirals could increase this amount. But here we're talking about a bit of a project, not MUCH of one but a project nevertheless.


I like those ideas IlPrincipe! Well put on the majority of them. Those suggestions still need tech and promotion prereqs and such and under it all the tag to enable water travel like that would be necessary (I think... maybe it's already there somehow though...).
 
One could also think about % damage per turn on ocean tiles, which is really high for the early units (e.g. right away 100% for canoes), which is being reduced by certain techs and promotions (and now traits?).

Terrain damage is already present, so maybe this could be extended. There's the possibility for some balance problem if two continents are only one ocean tile apart though. Although it is more realistic in my opinion to actually being able to cross that one tile (most of the time), it'd change how the game currently handles that kind of things.

On the other hand, this could play together very well with the limited max travel distance (sorry, forgot the exact name) once it is implemented.
 
It is very annoying how some mapscripts use one tile channels of ocean to create mazes, forcing even your galleys to detour sometimes for a dozen or so extra turns for a two-square crossing. I wouldn't mind it if it wasn't so ridiculously artificial. A millennium later, you get a border pop, and suddenly those same ships can do it in their sleep...
 
Those suggestions still need tech and promotion prereqs and such and under it all the tag to enable water travel like that would be necessary (I think... maybe it's already there somehow though...).

I didn´t flesh the out muc hyet, just wanted to give a general idea of what promotions for airforce or naval centered GG could look like.
Fleshing out started, if the can travel water due to promotion tag can bemade. If not it couldstil lbe done as a seperate unit I think.
Admiral
lets the GG cross water like a ship
Requires: Tech: Naval Warfare
Raiding I,II , III
+10% stregth when attacking in coastal waters, needs Tech: Naval Warfare, Promotion Admiral
II +20% gold from pillaging water tiles, needs Naval Warfare, Promotion Raiding Il
III +15 withdrawal chance, -10% coastal defence, Piracy,Promotion Raiding II
IV +5% strenght in amphibious assaults, +5% coastal attack, -5% bombardment dmg, needs Seafaring, Promotion Raiding III
V +15% strenght in amphibious assaults, -10% bombardment dmg, -10% coastal defence, needs Naval Tactics, Promotion Raiding IV

I choose mostly pretty early techs, because as far as I know quick raids where the dominant form of naval warfare in ancient and medival times, at least outside the meditariean Sea.
I further chose some negatives, so that you would be forced to specialize your GG. Next I will think out a line that focuses more on a "stand your , ääh , well not ground but water" style of fighting for defence.

About specialising GG: Maybe the land, naval and air force prootionsshould all require their respective "starting" promotion.
Will next flesh out other naval promotions
 
I like those ideas IlPrincipe! Well put on the majority of them. Those suggestions still need tech and promotion prereqs and such and under it all the tag to enable water travel like that would be necessary (I think... maybe it's already there somehow though...).

How would this theoretical admiral be created? I'm not certain we can keep both a great general counter for land XP and a great admiral counter for sea XP. If we can though, I'd be in favor of adding such units.
 
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