C2C SVN Changelog

[EldrinFal]

Update

- Tweaked Animal Strengths ...

Cave Bear: From 4 to 5
Panda: From 3 to 2
Deer: From 1 to 2
Orangutan: From 1 to 2
Cheetah: 1 to 2

- Tweaked Bird Strengths ...

Cassowary: From 4 to 3
Ostrich: From 4 to 3
Eagle: From 1 to 2

So I'm wondering why you are backtracking the changes agreed upon in the other thread without discussion:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=439673&page=6

Specifically DH's post here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10953450&postcount=119

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I was also wondering why he was changing stuff in "my" experimental folder when they could easily get lost because I am changing stuff there all the time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@EldrinFal

So I'm wondering why you are backtracking the changes agreed upon in the other thread without discussion:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=439673&page=6

Specifically DH's post here:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10953450&postcount=119

I saw that topic, and I thought it was a bit pushed. Note that my changes still follow much of what you said. Such as the deer being too strong, but then I thought you pushed to to be too weak. Thus I followed this chart ...

1 = Harmless (Ex. Dugong)
2 = Weak (Ex. Deer)
3 = Harmful (Ex. Lion)
4 = Dangerous (Ex. Polar Bear)
5 = Very Dangerous (Ex. Elephant)
6 = OMG!! (Ex. Mammoth)

For exact reasoning I will explain.

Cave Bear - Moved from 4 to 5 since a cave bear should be more powerful than a polar bear and polar bear was 4.

Panda - Not the most ferocious of the bears it should get toned down to average herbivore strength of 2 instead of 3.

Deer - Deer can at least protect themselves with antlers and hoofs. They are not as weak as a small animal like a rabbit or something. Moved up from 1 to 2.

Orangutan - They are strong but not aggressive like a gorilla can be moved up to deer and panda levels from 1 to 2.

Cheetah - This was rather insulting that they would get a 1. While i could see them getting a 3 they still are weaker than other cats so give a 2 instead.

Cassowary - This was just too insane to have a 4! I know they attack people but not as powerful as a polar bear! Moved down to 3 for their powerful attacks but not that uber powerful.

Ostrich - Same deal as the cassowarry, however they are not as aggressive, but they are bigger and more powerful so same strength at 3 instead of 4.

Eagle - Moved up from1 to 2 since they have a beak and talons to defend with. They should not be a helpless 1. Hawk should be here too but i could not find it.

On a side note I could not find the Onager (aka Wild Donkey) and think it should be moved up from a 1 to 2 since they can really kick and even bite.

Note this is all base stuff before the native terrain or herbivore/predator stats are added. I am well aware of those things you talked about.

@Dancing Hoskuld

I was also wondering why he was changing stuff in "my" experimental folder when they could easily get lost because I am changing stuff there all the time.

If they did i would just re-fix them. I would hope you saw it.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

On a side note I could not find the Onager (aka Wild Donkey) and think it should be moved up from a 1 to 2 since they can really kick and even bite.

Note this is all base stuff before the native terrain or herbivore/predator stats are added. I am well aware of those things you talked about.

@Dancing Hoskuld

If they did i would just re-fix them. I would hope you saw it.

The Onager is UNIT_DONKEY. It is just the text that is there to confuse

I just put some minor stuff up. Which may have been a big mistake, since it needs the python code and I have not put that up yet, 'cause I still have a test to do.

 

[AIAndy]

Update
Fix to the display issue/possible crash with timesteps of less than a year before year 0.
Changed two of the three year 1 AD to display as 0 AD instead (one without a December if a timestep of less than a year is used).

 

[EldrinFal]

@EldrinFal
I saw that topic, and I thought it was a bit pushed. Note that my changes still follow much of what you said. Such as the deer being too strong, but then I thought you pushed to to be too weak. Thus I followed this chart ...

For exact reasoning I will explain.

Cave Bear - Moved from 4 to 5 since a cave bear should be more powerful than a polar bear and polar bear was 4.

Panda - Not the most ferocious of the bears it should get toned down to average herbivore strength of 2 instead of 3.

Deer - Deer can at least protect themselves with antlers and hoofs. They are not as weak as a small animal like a rabbit or something. Moved up from 1 to 2.

Orangutan - They are strong but not aggressive like a gorilla can be moved up to deer and panda levels from 1 to 2.

Cheetah - This was rather insulting that they would get a 1. While i could see them getting a 3 they still are weaker than other cats so give a 2 instead.

Cassowary - This was just too insane to have a 4! I know they attack people but not as powerful as a polar bear! Moved down to 3 for their powerful attacks but not that uber powerful.

Ostrich - Same deal as the cassowarry, however they are not as aggressive, but they are bigger and more powerful so same strength at 3 instead of 4.

Eagle - Moved up from1 to 2 since they have a beak and talons to defend with. They should not be a helpless 1. Hawk should be here too but i could not find it.

On a side note I could not find the Onager (aka Wild Donkey) and think it should be moved up from a 1 to 2 since they can really kick and even bite.

Note this is all base stuff before the native terrain or herbivore/predator stats are added. I am well aware of those things you talked about.

My point was regarding the manner in which the changes were made. Quoting your own chart as justification is precarious at best.

Cave Bears are the same size as bears today. I don't see why they would get greater attack. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_bear Additionally, making them 5 puts them at the same Str as an elephant.

Cheetah : Was 1 from the get-go. I didn't change the Str. They aren't a ferocious cat, so I put them on par with Deer. Keep in mind that I think predators would have the Hunting promotion, which is where their superiority vs other animals comes in.

Deer & Orangutan : I don't consider 1 harmless. Any tiny critter like a rabbit that truly has no real means to fight back would be like a Worker. A 1 will not likely win against a full health Str 2 unit, but it may cause injury. And it may very well kill an injured Str 2 unit.

I didn't modify any of the birds as Dancing Hoskuld said he was going to modify those and the subdued versions of all animals (see second link I posted earlier).

More importantly though is balance and consistency. If you implement these changes (which you already did) then you need to look at the other animals as well. That was the reason I brought up the issue in the first place. If you notice, Wolf is Str 2. So now the Deer and Orangutan are on par with a Wolf (maybe Wolf pack.) A Lion is only Str 3, so just 1 higher than Deer or Donkey? And the elephant thing I mentioned above too. So they would have to be increased.

The better solution would just be to add +1 to the entire chart of animals. DH wanted them stronger, which I think people are fine with, but adding it to all keeps the balance consistent at the same time.

 

[Hydromancerx]

I though it was the short faced bear which was larger than the polar bear. Since in gamer the cave bear is obviously larger and the other bears in the game.

Cheetah : Was 1 from the get-go. I didn't change the Str. They aren't a ferocious cat, so I put them on par with Deer. Keep in mind that I think predators would have the Hunting promotion, which is where their superiority vs other animals comes in.

I understand they get a promotion. However I think they should not have the weakest base strength. They should not be at the same level as say a bunny.

Deer & Orangutan : I don't consider 1 harmless. Any tiny critter like a rabbit that truly has no real means to fight back would be like a Worker. A 1 will not likely win against a full health Str 2 unit, but it may cause injury. And it may very well kill an injured Str 2 unit.

We cannot have level 0 barbs so level 1 has to be the weakest level of creature for all the "harmless" ones. And Deer and Orangutan could defiantly fight back. Both are stronger than people and the deer has some sharp antlers while the Orangutan could seriously break you or bite you. Not to mention they are smart enough to throw things at you.

I didn't modify any of the birds as Dancing Hoskuld said he was going to modify those and the subdued versions of all animals (see second link I posted earlier).

The Cassowary and Ostrich were my mistake since DH's were that Strength. I should have just toned them down when I made them. But at that time you had not changed them yet. And things like deer were very powerful.

More importantly though is balance and consistency. If you implement these changes (which you already did) then you need to look at the other animals as well. That was the reason I brought up the issue in the first place. If you notice, Wolf is Str 2. So now the Deer and Orangutan are on par with a Wolf (maybe Wolf pack.) A Lion is only Str 3, so just 1 higher than Deer or Donkey? And the elephant thing I mentioned above too. So they would have to be increased.

Yes I looked at all of them and even had the chart. 1 had the weak animals like Aardvarks, and Dungongs. 2 had weak carnivores like cheetahs and most of the herbivores like deer and ibex. 3 had most of the predators like lions, tigers, etc. 4 had the super predators like polar bears. 5 had the very dangerous or huge animals like the cave bear and elephant. And 6 had the mammoth which was both dangerous and huge.

As for the wolf perhaps a 3 could do but its just a wolf and not a pack of wolves. Though if the wolf was 3 then a pack of wolf would be like a 4 then.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Changed the animal Spawn file to replace the over ride value with ANIMAL_SPAWN_MODIFIER.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Updates
- Updated my FPK.
- Added Pinball Arcade
- Tweaked Video Game Arcade, Theater and Movie Theater.
- Fixed River Port obsolete tech.

 

[EldrinFal]

Pushed to SVN...

City Growth multipliers adjusted as follows:

• Prehistoric +150%
• Ancient +140%
• Classical +130%
• Medieval +125%
• Renaissance +115%
• Industrial +100%
• Modern +85%
• Transhuman +60%
• Galactic +50%
• Future +25%

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Updates:

• Adjust Aardvark spawn rate and evironmnent settings
• Adjust Cassowary spawn rate.
• Fix Labyrinth wonder's building requirements.
• Beaver spawn rate and environmental settings set. Beaver can now be subdued, or become fur resource. New buildings included.
• Caribou can now spawn deer resource.

 

[Sleeeper]

• Beaver spawn rate and environmental settings set. Beaver can now be subdued, or become fur resource. New buildings included.

Beaver_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml wants DH2_CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml but that isn't exist and it cries to error window on xml load.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Beaver_CIV4BuildingInfos.xml wants DH2_CIV4BuildingsSchema.xml but that isn't exist and it cries to error window on xml load.

Fixed.

 

[EldrinFal]

Pushed to SVN...

• Neanderthal spawn rate adjustment (will continue to adjust as we receive feedback and/or code changes)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Updates:

• new art FPK
• all sea creatures can now be subdued and construct bildings.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The updates between my last post and this are causing my BtS to CTD while loading the XML!

 

[AIAndy]

The updates between my last post and this are causing my BtS to CTD while loading the XML!

I tried to reproduce it but it does not crash for me nor does any assert trigger with a debug dll.
Does it happen every time for you? If yes, could you try reverting back, one revision at a time to see which one causes it (not that many since your last update)?

 

[Koshling]

I tried to reproduce it but it does not crash for me nor does any assert trigger with a debug dll.
Does it happen every time for you? If yes, could you try reverting back, one revision at a time to see which one causes it (not that many since your last update)?

I just updated and exported to make sure I had the latest and it's all bahaving ok for me too. Tried both with the relase DLL and the debug one.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I tried to reproduce it but it does not crash for me nor does any assert trigger with a debug dll.
Does it happen every time for you? If yes, could you try reverting back, one revision at a time to see which one causes it (not that many since your last update)?

Yes, it happened 3 times, I try that these days. Then I had my morning coffee and went for a full install from the SVN (10 minutes for a copy!). It is all working fine now. Sorry to be a pain. At least I got some documentation updated.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

GAH! it is back again. I have narrowed it down to when I include the IbexChariot_UnitInfos file, but I can see noting wrong with it.

The attached goes in Assets/Modules/DancingHoskuld/SubdueAnimals/z_experimental.

Adding the IbexChariot_CIV4UnitInfos.xml file will cause the CTD. Removing it fixes it.

I have appointments for the rest of this morning so whenever you can get to look at it is fine.

Edit Found the problem. The name of the ART define in the unit infos does not exist. Hence CTD.