Galacticat42
Drifting through space, lost
AIAndy, go read the book Brave New World - it describes the type of horror sci-fi clones in-depth.
C2C - Transhuman Era
- Thread starter rightfuture
- Start date
But is it the cloning aspect that is the horror or is it rather the breeding into castes and deliberate development inhibitions of some of the castes?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
I love the rationale and knowledge points you're bringing up in this discussion because it certainly helps to 'keep us real'. BUT, to answer your question of Why being a late twin of a grownup makes you a lesser being:
I doesn't. BUT society will most likely take it to. I don't think people will find it necessary to create even more population to feed without there being a targeted, tool based reason. Identifying the traits that make a person a REALLY great worker, secretary, soldier, anything people don't really want to have to do themselves really. Once those traits have been identified, and a 'perfect model of that sort' has been found, now we would have cause to enact Human cloning. However, we're not going to grow new people as tools without treating them as tools. At first, human rights would not apply to these 'made to suit a function' clones. They would be treated as a caste. While some humans would argue and scream the valid point you make, it would be unavoidable that this would be the scenario. Because we wouldn't make the clones at all if it weren't to have them serve us and we wouldn't want them to have the feeling of being equals lest they may overthrow our use of them and perhaps even turn on us. Probably, this would eventually happen anyways, and clones would earn some rights back, just as any type of slave throughout history has eventually done. This would become more possible as robotic ai begins to advance to the point where the lazy ass clone slaveowners (who would be calling themselves 'real people') would be more than thrilled to allow the slaves rights to walk away from their duties provided the ai's can now take care of them with even better efficiency.
Either that or a war might break out as the Clone Slaves unite against their masters, overthrowing them, and by nature establishing a distinct caste society that at least honors each other for upholding their roles. Over time, mutation and diversity would take over and they would end up leaving their caste system behind them.
Now, if Cloning were limited to being a means to fulfill the role of surrogacy then I suppose none of this would be likely. But I don't think enough would-be parents would want a copy of another person for a child, unless they lost someone dear to them that they have the dna for. And the law to enforce only this level of cloning would start to bleed and eventually someone would exploit the legal system to allow for themselves to generate a group of slaves and before you know it, it would be pretty much as the above scenario.
Humanity itself was designed to be a slave to a superior race in my own faith and research-based outlook. I admit that could be wrong but it supports my view that we are always going to look to establish or create a subservient species. The Utopia proposal demands that there is a sub-strata servant class. Clones would easily fit into that answer, 'lesser because synthetic' and lesser because they were purely made to be a version of the person they were cloned from, to fill the role that person filled so well, over and over again.
Azurian
The Azurian
Alright im back, hopefully you had time to think about some of the new techs.
Cool, that's great!. Here are the lists of things that I proposed for the first 2/3rds of the TH Era for your reference. Also, there is discussion about the Cloning tech, so you may not want to mess with that for a little while.
Another thing is that some of the techs are actually renames of existing techs, so you only need to edit the GameText files for those (for instance, Biofuels would be renamed to Biomaterials).
After looking at the tree, there are two issues that I missed. First, String Theory is already a Modern Era tech, so you might just want to move that existing tech to it's new location and prereqs, but ask Hydro about that. Second, I realized that there is another AI tech, in the later TH era, simply named Artificial Intelligence, so you may want to rename that to Advanced Artificial Intelligence or something.
Also, check your PMs, I sent you a list of new techs for the last third of the TH era, based on your ideas list.
Azurian
The Azurian
I have no problem with this at all. Waiting on your guys input. I can explain what you need to know.
Azurian
The Azurian
EDIT:
Government Civic
-Computerized
-Planetary Democracy
-Star Federation
-Interstellar Commonwealth
-Galactic Federation
56. Society Civic
-Genetic Caste
-Robot Society
-Incubator Birth
-Android Labor
-Transhumanism
-Gene Enhancement
57. Power Civic
-Alpha Aristocracy
-Space Piracy
-
58. Economy Civic
-A.I Economy
-Orbital Trade
-Asteroid Mining
-Solar Tourism
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59. Military Civic
-Cyberwarfare Command
-Orbital Militarization
-Warmachines Ordinance
60. Religion Civic
-Binary Psycoactives
-
61. Welfare Civic
-Public Robotics
-Subsidized Transhumanism
-Anti-Aging Vaccinations
-
62. Garbage Civic
-Biomaterials
-
63. Immigration Civic
-Orbital Immigration
-Aquatic Immigration
-Moon Immigration
-Planetary Immigration
-Star System Immigration
-Galactic Immigration
-Teleportation Immigration
-Dimension Immigration
64. Education Civic
-Photographic Memorychip
-Knowledge Downloading
-Cognitive Augmentation
-Regional Hypersense
-Planetary Omnipresense
65.Language Civic
-Exocortex Thought
-Neurotransmitters
-Binary Echolocation
-Pheromes
-Quantum Signal
-Luminal Wavelength
66. Agriculture Civic
--Genetically Modifed Organisms
--
--
Currency
-DNA Barcode
Prophet Iacobus
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2012
- Messages
- 32
@Mrazure, DNA Barcoding sounds like the mark of the beast barcode...it should have an extreme effect on happiness and should increase local instability due to privacy concerns and economic tyranny.
Dancing Hoskuld
Deity
Not all societies, again Read Lois McMaster Bjould's Vorkosigan series. It is not hard science fiction because it is about the consequences of scientific endevour not the science itself. In that future, clones are used, as life extenders by the rich, as slaves and soldiers in some societies but they are just siblings in others.
Azurian
The Azurian
One of the things i find interest is
Generation X ( early 1960s through the 70s)
Generation Y(170s-80s)
Generation Z (1989-2012)
All three have specific sociological and psychological influences and traits compared to others.
Generation X ( early 1960s through the 70s)
Generation Y(170s-80s)
Generation Z (1989-2012)
All three have specific sociological and psychological influences and traits compared to others.
@MrAzure:
Hydro said here that he felt rather burnt out regarding designing the future techs, so he doesn't really care much about what we do. For the sake of my sanity, you may assume that all of the changes on those lists, as well as the ones I mentioned in passing, are approved by me. That means that whatever is on that list that Vokarya signs off on you may do. That way we will hopefully have the TH era solidified by the time we release V25. Does this sound good?
Hydro said here that he felt rather burnt out regarding designing the future techs, so he doesn't really care much about what we do. For the sake of my sanity, you may assume that all of the changes on those lists, as well as the ones I mentioned in passing, are approved by me. That means that whatever is on that list that Vokarya signs off on you may do. That way we will hopefully have the TH era solidified by the time we release V25. Does this sound good?
OK. For my sake, can we get the current draft of the TH era posted one column at a time so that I can see the final results? I would like to see the final techs and prerequisites. If you're changing a tech name, I would need to see that too. I don't process a multitude of changes that well, but if I see the final results, it makes it a lot easier for me to understand what is going on.
Hydromancerx
C2C Modder
I don't see why Asteroid Mining has to be its own civic. Why can't you mine asteroids and have AI Economy or even classic stuff like Free Market?
These are methods of immigration not Immigration civics. Things like Open Borders or Closed borders can apply to immigrating to the moon or telephoning just as much people driving and taking boats. None of those fit at all.
These seem more like resources or techs than civics.
This seems like it would fall under Waste to Energy or even just a tech/resource/building. Not a civic.
These seems more like techs than Civics.
What I think is interesting is the re-labeling of the generations over time. I have heard of Gen Z starting as early as the 1980 to as late as 2000. So yeah I think it may be still to early to define that generation from Gen Y.
Well I did post again and go over the stuff you posted. Please do the stuff I asked (mainly not deleting the core future techs and some random picks.) As long as things don't get too crazy I will try to be more involved in the future techs.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You make some good points that echo some of my thoughts on the subject today. I think between all of us, we've made a convincing point that the issue of human cloning itself deserves its own civic line as it has a number of possible approaches to its use. Something to represent all the varieties of ways society may engage in or ban its application.
Of course, currently, in RL, we have it 'Banned' and that has been internationally enforced upon by a decision by the United Nations. I think we have to explore exactly why this ban is potentially so important as to get such a unilateral multinational agreement on the matter that holds up the progress of science, and apply that element of potential danger into the game via some of the potential far reaching ramifications of some civic selections if it were NOT multinationaly banned, giving it cause for AI's to fear it like they already fear Nuclear Weaponry enough to almost always support its restriction.
Faustmouse
Deity
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2012
- Messages
- 3,524
I think at some point you will have a "total recycling programm" and don't produce any garbage at all...
What about adding a "Recycling" civic at the Recycling tech and enhance it with some techs like Metamaterials or Biomaterials?
I agree with this. Right now, we have the Recycled Goods Factory as the civic building for the Green Economy Civic. I think we should have both a Recycling Garbage civic (at the Recycling tech) and then Total Recycling later on in the Transhuman Era.
Does anyone know when MrAzure is going to start working on adding the changes to the Transhuman Era that we settled on? If he won't do it soon, I'll have to make those changes myself, so that we can have the tree look more cleaned up for V25.
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