Californian Wildfires and Population

[Zkribbler]

From what I understand, the Thomas fire is burning northward along the coast. That MUST mean the 101 is closed down, but I've heard nothing about this.

 

[Lexicus]

The way the forest ecology worked the low brush would burn regularly. The low brush is so flammable that fires would 'race' and the scrub oaks and pines would get scorched by the heat but it would pass fast enough that they usually didn't catch if they were healthy. So the fire clears the chaparral and removes the weak tress, allowing young trees to grow. By preventing regular burn offs we allowed the chaparral to get so thick that the fire couldn't race. It served as tinder and destroyed the old growth forest. Without the trees to provide shade the ground dries out and young trees can't get the start they need to develop the deep tap roots that allow them to survive the dry season. What used to be forest is likely to be replaced with sparse chaparral for decades, at least, if not forever.

More on this from an article I just found:
http://inthesetimes.com/features/california_wildfires_climate_change_conservation_yellowstone.html

“Ironically,” Ferguson writes, “the most significant result of suppressing all wildfires has been to create extraordinarily flammable forests.”

 

[Arwon]

The way the forest ecology worked the low brush would burn regularly. The low brush is so flammable that fires would 'race' and the scrub oaks and pines would get scorched by the heat but it would pass fast enough that they usually didn't catch if they were healthy. So the fire clears the chaparral and removes the weak tress, allowing young trees to grow. By preventing regular burn offs we allowed the chaparral to get so thick that the fire couldn't race. It served as tinder and destroyed the old growth forest. Without the trees to provide shade the ground dries out and young trees can't get the start they need to develop the deep tap roots that allow them to survive the dry season. What used to be forest is likely to be replaced with sparse chaparral for decades, at least, if not forever.

Do the fire services over there conduct reduction and regrowth burns when they can?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Does anyone know if the PCH through Big Sur is open again? A bridge collapsed during flooding over the winter and I haven't heard much since then. That's the best car ride in the world and it's a shame it's partially closed.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Do the fire services over there conduct reduction and regrowth burns when they can?

The areas I am familiar with they generally can't. Terrain is too rugged for any kind of controlled burn. The San Gabriel Mountains are among the most rugged in the world, and that's my main area of concern..

 

[Arwon]

Ah, yeah, that all sounds very familiar to the southern fringes of Sydney. Stop me if I've got this wrong but: dry climate, fire-adapted ecology, misguided settler colonialist authorities historically neglect the lessons from traditional native fire management regarding the need for regular burns, so fuel builds up. Even though everyone now knows better, there's often too much fuel or too little access to safely burn everything.

At the edges of the major city, the blanket development gives way to fringe areas with ridge-top or mountainside developments at the edge of national parks, surrounded by steep slopes and a network of deep valleys, filled with millions of tonnes of material just waiting for extreme heat, the right winds and a spark.

Once they go up, the landscape is filled with trees containing flammable oils, trees that want to be on fire, and the effect ends up being not unlike a fuel-air bomb where you sorta just have to get out of the way or try and save what property you can.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yup that describes Southern California. We have the added challenge of yearly Santa Anna winds which are hot, dry and fierce.

 

[Arwon]

Yeah, we tend to be dominated by irregular El Niño/La Niña cycles across multiple year periods, rather than predictable annual conditions.

The El Niño years you do get the hot dry winds off the interior of the continent - the hottest weather I've ever experienced was 46C 115F on New Years Day a decade ago... which just shouldn't happen at sea level near the coast. But other years it's cooler and wetter, sometimes to the point that there's severe floods. On the populated east coast we're not a consistent desert or semi-arid region like Southern California is.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

There are certainly long term cycles that can be confusing. I fear that I arrived too late to this state to really enjoy the wet, pleasant cycles. We got floods last year but before that was almost a decade of severe drought. This year we're dry again and going forward that will be more common than wet years thanks to global warming.

 

[Zkribbler]

We need to get serious about affordable, high-density housing in LA or we're going to end up with more suburban sprawl in unsuitable locations.

Greater L.A.'s population density of 23,887.2 is second only to the NY metro area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population_density

... high rises have to have 2 car spots for every 2 bedroom apartment and a set amount of green space within them. That makes building new housing stupid expensive ...

I've lived in those areas. There's generally, two adults in each bedroom, each with a car, which means four cars for two spaces. Parking on the street is a nightmare. It's not unusual to have park two or three blocks away from your apartment.

Anyway, there is actually plenty of flat and undeveloped land in LA county. Come visit me and I will show you several hundred square miles of it.

Tim, Are you talking about the upper desert? It's 1 1/2 hours by train from there to downtown. Longer, if you drive via the bumper-to-bumper traffic.

 

[Broken_Erika]

...... It's 1 1/2 hours by train from there to downtown. Longer, if you drive via the bumper-to-bumper traffic.

So, 1 1/2 hours by train and 1 1/2 days by car?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Tim, Are you talking about the upper desert? It's 1 1/2 hours by train from there to downtown. Longer, if you drive via the bumper-to-bumper traffic.

Yeah. It isn't 1.5 hours by train...more like an hour. It is 1.5 hours by car at the peak drive times, but that's to downtown. Most people here strive for jobs in the San Fernando Valley where they can make it in a bit over an hour. However, we are in one of our regular aircraft job boom cycles right now so people are shifting out of the commute.

 

[Zkribbler]

Thomas fire is now the largest in California history.

 

[Oerdin]

Yep, and still burning. Three weeks later.

 

[Zkribbler]

"Of the top 20 largest wildfires in California history, the Thomas Fire is the only one to have occurred in December."

 

[hobbsyoyo]

This is a view from near the top of a minor mountain in Peter's Canyon in Orange County, CA. the image was taken yesterday around noon.

This picture doesn't do the scene justice, everything is burnt out from the Canyon Fire of Nov/Dec. I've been in controlled burn zones after burns and this was much more extreme. For the most part, everything smaller than a mature tree was completely obliterated - no trace there was ever any vegetation over 90% of the ground. There are some sticks here and there but everything in between them is gone and they are few and far between in most of the area.

There are some stands of trees left but those are the survivors, many were completely incinerated along with the lesser bushes, shrubs and grasses.

It's been long enough that most of the irritating dust has blown away and with it, a lot of the nutrients of the former habitat. I have no idea how this area will rehabilitate.

Actually now that I'm looking at it this is a very bad picture. There is a dam here in the picture (to the right) and most of the park to the left of the dam was spared while everything to the right was razed. Unfortunately I didn't get any good pictures of that side of the park because I wasn't thinking.

Spoiler :

 

[Timsup2nothin]

If you want to feel better I'll take you hiking in the station fire burn zone. Eight years later you can look around and say "this underbrush definitely needs a controlled burn." As long as some stands of mature trees survive to give shade the system will recover a lot faster than you would expect.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

So now, several months after the fires started, Trump finally declared the burn areas a natural disaster.

 

[Zkribbler]

Yep, and still burning. Three weeks later.

Finally contained: Jan. 12th.

Now come the rain and, with no vegetation lett on the hills, the mudslides.
20 people dead; 4 missing.
Hwy 101 up the coast CLOSED INDEFINITELY.

 

[sophie]

Finally contained: Jan. 12th.

Now come the rain and, with no vegetation lett on the hills, the mudslides.
20 people dead; 4 missing.
Hwy 101 up the coast CLOSED INDEFINITELY.

1 and 101 got shredded last year too because of el niño.