Californian Wildfires and Population

[warpus]

Why do you need to widen the freeways and major roads in the cities to increase urban populations. In London 37% journeys are made on public transport, 24% by walking and 2% by cycle with only 36% by car.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-report-9.pdf

Yeah but Americans have a human right to drive around in cars, I think it's the 22nd amendment to the constitution or something. It's also in the Bible that public transportation is unclean.

 

[Zkribbler]

LA is not in a desert. It is surrounded by desert but it is not in one.

Desert is a function of rainfall. In the early 1900's, the US film industry moved from New York to Hollywood because "it never rains in sunny California." L.A. has lots of sunshine but virtually no water.

In the 1890's, Bill Mulholland doubled LA's size from 50,000 to 100,000 people with his early aqueducts. This project was dwarfed a decade later when he swindled the farmers of the Owen's Valley out of the runoff from the eastern Sierras.

If CavLancer were still around, he'd tell you how LA is now trying to take water from the Columbia River.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

LA is not in a desert.

It's not even completely encircled by deserts either. There are a ton of microclimates in the area. The weather reports have daily updates for about 10 different weather zones within 50 miles that are all wildly different. That was another reason Hollywood flourished here - a short car ride can take you to areas that make great stand-ins for other countries.

 

[Zkribbler]

LA is not in a desert.

You are right & I am wrong.
A desert is defined as "such land having a very warm climate and receiving less than 25 centimeters (10 inches) of sporadic rainfall annually "
Wikipedia states L.A. gets 37.9 cm [14.93 inches] of rain during the average year.

 

[Silurian]

Yeah but Americans have a human right to drive around in cars, I think it's the 22nd amendment to the constitution or something. It's also in the Bible that public transportation is unclean.

I think driverless cars will change that.

 

[Cutlass]

I think driverless cars will change that.

Americans have both a god given, and a constitutionally protected, right to drive their own damned cars.

 

[Berzerker]

Mega-cities are better for the environment, ultimately, than scattered villages and homesteads.

They paved paradise. And put up a parking lot.

 

[Silurian]

Americans have both a god given, and a constitutionally protected, right to drive their own damned cars.

Well not all Americans are members of a militia, they have a choice.

I think that soon it will be deeply uncool to arrive at a swinging hot spot by a car that you have driven yourself.

 

[Hrothbern]

I think that soon it will be deeply uncool to arrive at a swinging hot spot by a car that you have driven yourself.

100% uptime of smartphone use

 

[tuckerkao]

Americans have both a god given, and a constitutionally protected, right to drive their own damned cars.

Wish our road quality can be better with newer and smoother pavements.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

The problem here isn't the cities, so much as it's people living in the scrubland hills and forests who insist (understandably) that CalFire put out each and every fire before it destroys their property. The problem is that California's environment evolved around cyclical fires burning out undergrowth, and when that isn't allowed to happen, the result is detritus build-up, leading to these mega fires that destroy everything. Mega-cities are better for the environment, ultimately, than scattered villages and homesteads.

This is true of some regions of British Columbia, as well, particularly around Kelowna. People want their hillside homes and ranches, and when the forest fires happen (every year), it always seems shocking to them that fires don't give a damn what they burn.

The solution is to get more people into cities, and stop the sprawl. Not to sprawl more. Let more of the wild remain wild. For those who choose to live and build in wildfire prone areas, require them to build of flameproof materials, or have no insurance and no government assistance to rebuild.

I've just finished voting for the municipal election (in-home ballot). I had a look at the candidates last night, and opted not to vote for anyone whining that there's too much development in the south part of the city and not enough in the north part.

I do live in the north part and it's true that we don't have all the malls and recreation facilities the south has. But the city is surrounded by wetlands and whatever farmland hasn't already been gobbled up for new subdivisions, industrial, or oil and gas. I remember when a significant portion of the south half of this city was farmland. The acreage I grew up on was eventually annexed and is now paved over. So much for the deer and migratory birds we could count on seeing.

As much as I loathe the idea of having skyscrapers here (the number of skyscrapers we have in this city can be counted on one hand, and two of them are apartment buildings that are maybe a third the height of a Calgary skyscraper), we need to preserve those wetland areas.

Why do you need to widen the freeways and major roads in the cities to increase urban populations. In London 37% journeys are made on public transport, 24% by walking and 2% by cycle with only 36% by car.

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-report-9.pdf

Far too many North American cities - large ones in particular - don't believe in public transit.

Around here, public transit is seen as something only students and poor people use, and I remember one municipal election forum some decades ago, in which a member of the audience asked for a show of hands among the council candidates as to which of them had ever used public transit.

About a third of them raised their hands, and one of them looked around furtively, raising her hand no higher than her shoulder. Her attitude just screamed, "God, I hope nobody who matters saw that I took the bus once!". Or it could be that she wanted to appear to have taken the bus but didn't want to be the only one who raised her hand. Considering that she lives in one of the swankiest parts of town, I very much doubt that she took the bus more than once, if she ever took it at all (she was elected to council and 3 years later was elected mayor and never did understand the importance of public transit and timely snow removal in the less-swanky neighborhoods).

bicycle lanes

"Bicycle lanes" is a four-letter word here. Considering that they're covered in snow for at least 6 months of the year, drivers aren't too happy with them. We do have bike/walking trails throughout the city, but these don't go into the middle of downtown, and I'm not sure how many of the newest subdivisions are connected yet.

 

[Oerdin]

Also there are eucalyptus trees there now aren't there?

In some parts. Where I grew up in Scripps Ranch in San Diego the whole area is covered in pretty dense eucalyptus forests. In the 1870's the Scripps family thought they would get rich planting these fast growing, drought resistent trees from Australia for use as railroad ties or house building materials. Sadly, they didn't know that there are several hundred different types of eucalyptus trees and the ones which got sent over were the wrong type for those applications. The wood twists when it dries making it unsuitable.

The trees are still here though and have gone kind of wild spreading out on their own. In the 1930's a huge number of eucalyptus trees were planted on farms in this state as wind breaks. They evolved in a climate similar to the one here so they pretty much thrive though some environmentalists complain they compete for space and water which native trees need.

 

[Zkribbler]

Thomas, Creek & Rye fires are ravaging north of Los Angeles.

Here's an email from a friend of mine iv Ventura. location of the Thomas fire.

Thanks for your concern. I'm VERY fortunate. I had about 8 hours without power, but mostly during daylight hours. A bit of smoke, but no fire. Was all set to evacuate yesterday, and will keep the car packed for a few more days. You never know when there'll be a flareup.

Fire is a greedy adversary. The HUGE, widespread fire ran the full length of the mountains from Santa Paula to Ventura and finally down to the ocean! It obliterated inhabited areas in the areas nearest the foothills to the north and south of the range. The fires were fought VERY aggressively and the spread moving down toward my home never came as far as the 126 freeway. There are something just under 30,000 evacuees.

The main inconvenience to me is that I have to boil water. The supply has dwindled dramatically and the dregs contain contaminants. The City was very good about notifying people of this and when to evacuate and where to find the evacuation center. Unfortunately, the center was the VC Fairgrounds, right in the path of the west-growing fire. Apparently, the firefighters stopped it before it hit there, probably because the winds died down just enough to get the Super Scoopers in the air.

Much drama! Many families and the cities coffers will all be in recovery mode for some time to come. Too much smoke to see uphill much, but when that's gone, the view will be bleak for a while. Most of the folks who could afford to live up there surely have the wherewithal to rebuild.

Now a new fire in west LA has closed down the 405 Freeway and threatens the Getty Center, Bel Air, and UCLA.

Los Angeles (CNN)A new wildfire closed parts of Interstate 405 Wednesday morning near Los Angeles' posh Bel-Air area and prompted evacuations -- one in a series of blazes that have scorched more than 83,000 acres, burned scores of buildings and forced tens of thousands of people to flee over three days.



Police shut down I-405 -- one of the nation's busiest freeways -- in both directions for nine miles after flames swept down the foothills toward the highway, near Sepulveda Pass and the Getty Center arts complex, as stunned motorists drove by before dawn.
UCLA, a few miles south of the fire, said it believed its campus was safe but canceled afternoon and evening classes, citing difficult traffic conditions. It also canceled its men's basketball home gave against Montana.

 

[Lexicus]

Now a new fire in west LA has closed down the 405 Freeway and threatens the Getty Center, Bel Air, and UCLA.

I'm in LA for work this week, staying in a hotel not far from the getty center. We could see the glowing smoke when we woke up before dawn today, amd yeaterday morning it was so smoky that visibility was down to about 500 yards. Pretty crazy stuff, never seen anything like it.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm in LA for work this week, staying in a hotel not far from the gettt center. We could see the glowing smoke when we woke up before dawn today, amd yeaterday morning it was so smoky that visibility was down to about 500 yards. Pretrt crazy stuff, never seen anything like it.

Welcome to California. This is actually quite normal, and nothing to get excited about.

On the other hand you could take the opportunity to meet me, which is a unique experience.

 

[Lexicus]

Welcome to California. This is actually quite normal, and nothing to get excited about.

On the other hand you could take the opportunity to meet me, which is a unique experience.

It might be possible. I don't have that much free time, but i'm here till friday around noon.

 

[Zkribbler]

Welcome to California. This is actually quite normal, and nothing to get excited about.
.

I beg to differ. Wildfires are usually on the periphery of Greater Los Angeles or in the hills above Burbank. I don't recall any big fires this close to LA's heartland since the Bel-Aire fire of 50 years ago.

The "Skirball" fire ignited before 5:00 am (1300 GMT) and quickly grew to engulf about 150 acres around the district, home to celebrities and billionaires including Elon Musk and pop superstar Beyonce.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I beg to differ. Wildfires are usually on the periphery of Greater Los Angeles or in the hills above Burbank. I don't recall any big fires this close to LA's heartland since the Bel-Aire fire of 50 years ago.

Yeah, yeah, the fact that the rich people in the Hollywood Hills are evacuating instead of the not quite as rich people of the San Gabriel foothills is a hugely significant difference.

Oh.

Wait.

No, it really isn't. Overstaffed fire departments from across the southland will respond, accruing overtime that will be paid for through taxes predominantly paid by the denizens of the flatlands...who will continue being sneered down upon by the people who live in the hills.

 

[Zkribbler]

From CNN:

Every day firefighters in Los Angeles receive a brush burning index report that indicates the fire danger. If it's 165 or higher, that's extreme.
The number for Thursday is 296, the highest it has ever been, according to Los Angeles Fire Chief Ralph Terrazas.
Terrazas and other officials in Southern California warned residents Wednesday evening that a series of wildfires fueled by wicked Santa Ana winds and dangerously dry vegetation likely was going to get even worse in the next 24 hours.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

In 2009 the Station Fire burned a quarter of the Angeles National Forest. It burned for seven weeks. It is unlikely the burn area will recover in my lifetime.

I do not get over excited about a fire just because it happens to catch the homes of a few people who never should have built there in the first place.