Cambodian Civilization for VP

[pineappledan]

reverted to 2D leaderscreen

 

[Asterix Rage]

reverted to 2D leaderscreen

why?

 

[pineappledan]

Iska is working on a VP-compatible version of his own Empires Ascendant Khmer mod, which is where the 3D leaderhead comes from.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Why don't you join forces if this civ is polished enough to be merged with VP? Why start from scratch?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Look at Iska's Khmer's 3D leaderscreen:

Credit to aa0905766k

This is just awesome!

 

[Drakle]

UI - Prang
Unique Great Person Tile Improvement built by Royal Tromeak
Must be built Adjacent to a city.
Connects Strategic and Luxury Resources to your trade network
Does not remove Features.
+4, +1, +1, +1
+1 from Shrine, Temple, and Grand Temple in Nearby City
+1 from Granary, Aqueduct, and Grocer in Nearby City
+2 if City has a World Wonder
+2 if city has a Factory
+1 for every 3 population in City
+5%Production towards Wonders in City working a Prang
+10% Hurry Production boost for Great Engineers

The 1 production for every 3 population in city, only triggers once right? Otherwise, it seems like way too much production for a fairly tall capital.

 

[pineappledan]

No, it's functionally a straight / population scaler, like a water mill, but as an improvement. It potentially has no cap except how big you are able to grow your cities.

Manufactories start at 6, increasing to 9 at Metal Casting (Classical), 12 at Fertilizer (Industrial), and 15 at Combined Arms (Atomic)

The Prang starts at 4 and does not receive any of the tech bonuses. In other words, you require a city of size 6 (Ancient), 15 at Classical, 24 at Industrial, and 33 at Atomic just to be at parity with the base improvement.

I'm actually considering increasing the base Prang to 5; the amount of growth required to keep a Prang competitive with a manufactory makes it difficult for a secondary city. The potential 433 offsets this somewhat, but in my own games, it wasn't feeling strong enough outside my Capital.

 

[Gizmoman]

So, the OP mentions the Prang needing to be placed adjacent to a city, but in game they seem to be able to be placed anywhere but adjacent to the city center. It seems to either be bugged or weirdly informed.

 

[pineappledan]

It’s the Kasbah bug replicated here. CitySide build requirement got reversed with the latest patch; illteroi has fixed it for next hotfix

 

[Gizmoman]

It’s the Kasbah bug replicated here. CitySide build requirement got reversed with the latest patch; illteroi has fixed it for next hotfix

Oh, well that explains that

 

[Hinin]

I don't think the "unit doesn't cost supply" part of the "rice farmer" promotion works as intended. I played this civ a month ago, and remembered clearly being on the supply cap while having almost only Chivopols in my army. Do you want me to do some tests on the matter, or is the problem easily identifiable ?

 

[pineappledan]

I don't think the "unit doesn't cost supply" part of the "rice farmer" promotion works as intended. I played this civ a month ago, and remembered clearly being on the supply cap while having almost only Chivopols in my army. Do you want me to do some tests on the matter, or is the problem easily identifiable ?

i scrapped the unit supply cap idea. It wasn’t a worthwhile or interesting bonus and supply isn’t a problem in the early game. There’s the fringe benefit that you could keep Chivopol active in medieval/renaissance as workers that can defend themselves and contribute to military strength in a small way, improving tribute and Diplo checks, but you should be phasing them out in those eras to prep for the industrial era anyways.

I want to check the temperature on changing the prang/UGPTI to make it build able anywhere. I liked the idea that the prangs would circle a city and function like districts, expanding the city’s ring to emphasize the size and grandeur of the Angkor city planning, but I noticed the AI isn’t ringing their cities with them like I hoped. I think the AI doesn’t want to overwrite existing improvements. So maybe it would be better off if they behaved like any other GPTI without placement limitations?

 

[Hinin]

I want to check the temperature on changing the prang/UGPTI to make it build able anywhere. I liked the idea that the prangs would circle a city and function like districts, expanding the city’s ring to emphasize the size and grandeur of the Angkor city planning, but I noticed the AI isn’t ringing their cities with them like I hoped. I think the AI doesn’t want to overwrite existing improvements. So maybe it would be better off if they behaved like any other GPTI without placement limitations?

Well, aside from its place as a unique GE improvement, the Prang is basically a deluxe Kasbah, so I would understand reworking it a bit. However, simply allowing it to be placed elsewhere wouldn't add much : most UTI are either locked behind terrain (ex. : château, kasbah, terrace farm) or by the utility you want to obtain from them (hacienda, oppidum), but an unrestricted prang would only be similar to a manufactory with more diverse yields (sry for the armchair critic here).

Do you have ideas on how to make the Prang more interesting as an unrestricted GPTI, or is your problem only linked to AI behavior, and in that case why not look at why the AI can build Kasbah, but not Prang ?

 

[pineappledan]

Well, aside from its place as a unique GE improvement, the Prang is basically a deluxe Kasbah, so I would understand reworking it a bit. However, simply allowing it to be placed elsewhere wouldn't add much : most UTI are either locked behind terrain (ex. : château, kasbah, terrace farm) or by the utility you want to obtain from them (hacienda, oppidum), but an unrestricted prang would only be similar to a manufactory with more diverse yields (sry for the armchair critic here).

aside from the flavor, I also wanted to cap how many prang could be around a single city. with major bonuses to and , and with a direct / scaler, the potential to put them all together on your largest city is incredible, so that's another consideration.

Do you have ideas on how to make the Prang more interesting as an unrestricted GPTI, or is your problem only linked to AI behavior, and in that case why not look at why the AI can build Kasbah, but not Prang ?

I am guessing this has to do with worker AI vs GEngineer AI... Not sure.

 

[Drakle]

I want to check the temperature on changing the prang/UGPTI to make it build able anywhere. I liked the idea that the prangs would circle a city and function like districts, expanding the city’s ring to emphasize the size and grandeur of the Angkor city planning, but I noticed the AI isn’t ringing their cities with them like I hoped. I think the AI doesn’t want to overwrite existing improvements. So maybe it would be better off if they behaved like any other GPTI without placement limitations?

Well as a suggestion. Maybe bonuses for neighbouring Great Tile Improvements. So instead of a complex around a city, it is instead a temple/Town/Academy Complex.

It fits with the civ being a Tradition focused civ.

So either a boost to the Prang, or the other GTI.

No restrictions on build, since a Great Engineer is often the first plantable Great Person for Tradition, particularly with Goddess of Beauty.

 

[pineappledan]

Well as a suggestion. Maybe bonuses for neighbouring Great Tile Improvements. So instead of a complex around a city, it is instead a temple/Town/Academy Complex.

That would be identical to the Israelite Kibbutz tho...

I’m halfway to talking myself back out of this. The way that the Prang scales solely through infrastructure and population is a very unique feature, but it ties the improvement tightly to a city, thematically, so I like tying it geographically as well. there must be a way to convince the AI that replacing tiles adjacent to a city is something it should do. Could just be a matter of cranking the flavours on prangs super-high

 

[Drakle]

That would be identical to the Israelite Kibbutz tho...

I’m halfway to talking myself back out of this. The way that the Prang scales solely through infrastructure and population is a very unique feature, but it ties the improvement tightly to a city, thematically, so I like tying it geographically as well. there must be a way to convince the AI that replacing tiles adjacent to a city is something it should do. Could just be a matter of cranking the flavours on prangs super-high

The Kibbutz is a normal unique improvement. While the Prang is a GTI. And the Kibbutz is

+2 production: to adjacent GP tile improvements

While something else could be done with the Prang. The Production scaling is already tied to population, so it could be something else. Like appropriate yields from neighbouring GTI on the Prang.

 

[Hinin]

I’m halfway to talking myself back out of this. The way that the Prang scales solely through infrastructure and population is a very unique feature, but it ties the improvement tightly to a city, thematically, so I like tying it geographically as well. there must be a way to convince the AI that replacing tiles adjacent to a city is something it should do. Could just be a matter of cranking the flavours on prangs super-high

Is the Prang AI problem linked to lack of space around cities, or simply the inability for AI GE to place it ? In the first case, maybe a simple solution could be to allow the Prang to be placed around cities and GPTI (without the GPTI tile bonus proposed by Drakle) and link the scaling of the Prang to the city working the tile. Is it possible ?

 

[pineappledan]

I’ve watched the Khmer just idle a tromeak inside the capital for 20 turns with only 2 prang surrounding the city. It’s possible the AI is holding onto them for some inscrutable logic, but it’s pretty frustrating to see.

there’s no easy way to cause a tile improvement to make another tile improvement valid.

 

[pineappledan]

Posting a update:
Prang renamed to Phnom Preah
Phnom Preah base production to 5
3D leader screen reimplemented