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[GS] Canada Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Dec 11, 2018.

  1. Kheznik

    Kheznik Warlord

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    I've been doing some reading on Laurier recently and it's been bothering me to no end that his portrayal in GS is all wrong. It seems as if Canada was designed with Lester B. Pearson in mind, but when they swapped him out for Laurier, they kept his personality and abilities (and achievements...) around for what I can only imagine is gameplay reasons. As a result, Canada is just all over the place in its design-- and in all the wrong places, at that-- while leaving Laurier with a personality that completely betrays his irl accomplishments.

    Simple changes that I would suggest:

    Civilization Ability: Giving "The Last Best West" to Canada and changing its name to "The Great White North" would make far more sense given its strong tundra focus; "The Last Best West" is a nonsensical name that was only chosen to give Laurier a reason to have it.

    Leader Ability: Giving "Four Faces of Peace" to Laurier, even though it was clearly designed with LBP in mind, but changing the name to something more Laurier-related, like "Pillar of Fire". Swapping the 'Diplomatic Favor per 100 Tourism' with 'Diplomatic Favor per 50 Loyalty' (pending balancing since Idk how much Loyalty one produces on average) would help tie it better to Laurier.

    Leader Agenda: Laurier was a staunch nationalist who voiced opposition to Canada's involvement in WWI and other worldly British events. He believed that WWI in particular would tear Canada apart-- and it nearly did. With that in mind, it makes zero sense that he'd be so gung-ho about getting involved in Emergencies while his own cities are shifting Loyalties. I would suggest having him dislike leaders who take part in Emergencies (and Joint Wars) while Loyalty in any of their cities is low, and liking those who tend to their empire's Loyalty before taking part in Emergencies or Joint Wars. I feel like this would be less doable given the issue of voice acting. But I can overlook that.

    Yeah that's about it. There's a lot more that can be said, and has been said, about Canada's design, many of which are forgivable, but this is probably the one that itches at me the most, and I will be forever sated regarding Canada if this is fixed... until Civ VII comes around. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    Uberfrog likes this.
  2. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer King

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    Given that the entire series is anachronistic, I don't think it is that big of a deal.
     
    Kimiimaro and SammyKhalifa like this.
  3. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    I started a Canada game with legendary start selected. And I got one. I started next to Mato Tipila (+1 Production, +1 Faith to adjacent tiles) and all the adjacent tiles have bonus resources. There are also several large lakes with Fish. Due to the Faith, I managed to get first dibs on pantheons, even with Indonesia doing her thing. I'm going to guess Mali either isn't in the game or didn't get a lot of desert around its capital.

    So I'm expanding outside the Tundra and along the Tundra Line as much as possible first before going all in on the Tundra and Snow.

    I'm making a big military in hopes of using emergencies as an excuse to expand. But I'm going to be very careful of grievances because I'm still fuzzy on how they work.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2019
    Kjimmet and Zaarin like this.
  4. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I did discover that tundra farming triangles do work. You guys probably already knew that, but I know we weren't sure about this 2 months ago.
     
  5. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    So in my Canada game, I got off to a good start, but America conquered China. I tried to get a Military Emergency against them, but America used their superior Favor to block it. Meanwhile, the Maori got a land-start, which is dramatically in their favor. 2 pop, a free builder, and extra production from turn 1. Ugh. So both of them are running away with Science, Culture, and Wonders. I don't think Hockey is going to be enough for me to catch up on Culture.

    Aside from that one attempted emergency, I haven't been able to get anything going. There was a few on the other continent before I met everyone, but since then, nothing. It seems like the AI would just rather not.

    It's been a slog. Canada's bonuses just aren't. Making marginal terrain slightly usable and another that relies on luck and cooperative AIs is just not a recipe for success. The extra strategic resources have been okay. I make a pretty penny selling off the surplus. And the AI are all friendly to me and ready allies. So that's a few extra Favor per turn.

    Now I think I will have some good spots for National Parks. And that will help on both Tourism and Favor, but will it be enough to overcome the Maori eco-tourism and America's Wildcard Favor?

    Canada is a good civ if you want to make your difficulty level feel like it is one higher.
     
    tedhebert and Victoria like this.
  6. Jekkusormi

    Jekkusormi Chieftain

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    I'm definetely that good of a player (I'm currently losing a Mansa Musa game so that should tell you something) but I think Canada isn't too bad. I got my first win with them (Emperor, Marathon, Continents), DV. I mainly focused on Culture and Tourism. Admitedly I didn't use a single farm on tundra and I'm not sure if 6 DP/turn is much or little Marathon but I got victory out of it (and most importantly had fun) so I take it
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Yes ... Now with England starts inland I no longer get museums which is annoying... These vanilla starts you can still win because you do not need benefits to win, they just give civs flavour....Still to play Canada but looking forward to it, hopefully I will not start on tundra but be allowed to spread to it.
     
  8. steveg700

    steveg700 Deity

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    I take the game decides when an emergency should be voted on, not something a civ can initiate? In my games, emergencies have just been things that happened to other civ's. Even when I got hammered by multiple disasters, still no emergencies whereby I could get showered with wealth so that I can rebuild a half-dozen or so tiles. How disappointing.

    Anyway, I would like to see Canada lean into emergencies more strongly, give them some free votes or a diplomatic favor multiplier. Or at least allow Canada to vote on any emergency. I'd also rather they have a unique unit that leans into emergencies as well, maybe with some bonus movement during emergencies.
     
  9. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    After America took several of China's cities, I got a WC pop-up asking if I wished to call a special session to vote on a Military Emergency.

    I've heard this is also how Aid Request Emergencies work.
     
    Zaarin likes this.
  10. Tuvok694

    Tuvok694 Civ6 addict

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    Canada is so incredibly weak. Worst civ ever in this game. It is completely pointless to even try to play above level king. Until the point where unique abilities are actually useful, the ai will have destroyed you.
     
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  11. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Hilarious!
    You are so right with this comment about reddit.

    Really???
    You have just inspired me to go play a Deity game as Canada.
    I want to see how I will just get destroyed playing Canada on:
    Deity, Pangaea Map, All Standard Settings.
    I hope to get rolled a few times since I miss it :)
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
    agonistes likes this.
  12. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    Welp... that start/game was too easy as Canada.
    Most likely have to start up another one to make it more difficult.

    Deity, Pangaea Map, All Standard Settings, 7 AI Random Opponents.

    I knew when I rolled the start the land was too good.
    Easy to defend and plenty of space to expand.
    Also Horses nearby with 3 Luxuries to gobble up with 1 or 2 expos.
    2 or 3 Bronze to chop down for Gold.
    1 Marsh and 1 Farm in Capital to harvest population.
    Easy to Pillage Arabia pretty soon if I don't DoF.
    I wasn't in the middle of Tundra like I wanted to be.
    Turn 12 I got a Relic which is usually a guarantee for 1st Pantheon.
    Turn 14 Killed First Barb Camp.
    Turn 17 Found Arabia.
    Turn 18 First Pantheon and I chose Harvest.
    Game Over IMO.

    When I look at these screenshots I think I am playing as Japan.
    Sorta like how Hungary looks like Ethiopia to me.

    Build Order: Warrior, Monument, Builder.
    Tech Order: AH, Mining.
    Civic Order: Follow the Boosts.

    Spoiler Screenshots :

    Canada 1.png

    Canada 12.png

    Canada 18.png
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2019
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  13. BarbarianHunter

    BarbarianHunter King

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    That looks like a nice start! I started on a fractal map with a weird 50 tile ocean/lake thing I had to navigate the tundra to get around. To add insult to injury, there wasn't even any housing bonus to the giant lake the crazy computer termed an ocean. By the time I navigated around it and reached settlable land on the other side loyalty was an issue. It was all over for me :undecide:. I've never had such a rubbish start as the Canadian one. The civ looks interesting, but I just couldn't get anything going. Things like the Mountie coming @ conservation means you can ignore the bottom of the tech tree, go for the culture civics, and still have cav. You can ignore holy sites if you stay peaceful and make national parks with production. The trouble is actually doing it. I may try again, but it won't be for quite some time.
     
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  14. tedhebert

    tedhebert Emperor

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    In my game I started just great just on the border of the tundra, with mountains surronding me ...I had room for 6 cities in there, so I had time to establish before going around the mountains and settling 3-4 more cities...

    Being on the tundra line is veru good... as long as no one is too close to you on the NON tundra side of it ;-)

    I've just won an imortal game with canada, pangae huge.... so it's possible... but NOT fun ;_0
     
    Victoria likes this.
  15. Fluphen Azine

    Fluphen Azine What is Fluphen Azine?

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    That start was silly for any Civ IMO.
    Just my first random roll of the dice.
    Decent enough land.
    I had a camp site so if I wanted ToA I could build it.
    Relic and Harvest... pfft lol.
    Double Horses with a Luxury for first Expo.
    Nothing gonna stop me from Faith Buying and Warmongering my way through that game.
     
  16. Mojo85

    Mojo85 Warlord

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    Playing a continents, deity, huge (YnAMP) and I gave up because I was simply steam rolling. Got dance of the Aurora panthion, a few holy sites and was farting out settlers with the Monumentality dedication that It was on easy mode from then on out. I quit about 10 turns after getting rinks because the end wasn't in doubt
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    As @Mojo85 did, it’s another vanilla civ in many ways and you can steamroller with any civ with a bit of iron. It can be fun.
     
  18. Eagle Pursuit

    Eagle Pursuit Scir-Gerefa

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    By that you mean conquest?

    I'm trying to make a go of it by only engaging in defensive and emergency warfare, in the spirit of the design.
     
    tedhebert and Victoria like this.
  19. Sagax

    Sagax Emperor

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    In my Diplo Win game as Canada, this tactic worked quite well. Ally with a civ that’s otherwise hated and picked on by everyone to better trigger defensive pacts. Bonus points if you wait for one of its cities getting conquered. Proceed to conquer the aggressor while the world likes you for it.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Sounds like a grand plan.
     

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