Capto Iugulum Background Thread

[Lord_Iggy]

Aaaah. I assumed that when you said:

Uhm...... i think I would know that.. I live there after all

That you were dismissing the claim that Idaho wasn't a real Shoshone word.

 

[ZeletDude]

No.

Stupid internet cannot convey tone of voice

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Since it was brought up on the thread, and has been brought up before, let's discuss the existence of OTL people in ATL circumstances. Yes, there's no reason for anyone who existed historically to exist here, period. On the other hand, when you examine the odds of any individual existing at any point in any timeline, those two are equally astronomical. As I have from the beginning, I've encouraged people to come up with their own names and most heads of government are in fact completely fictionally generated. However, I'm a sucker for historical irony and amusement, so every once in a while, I like to slip a historical name in. Ths does NOT mean that they are in fact the same person that they were historically. Herr Drexler, based on TLK's own background discussion on him, most definitely has a different world view than his OTL character. The reason I put him in was because spryllino took a Weimar politician and made him the head of the Confederation. With the elections coming out in favor of German nationalists, I knew war was almost certainly now on the way, and thought it'd be amusing to have someone related to destroying the Weimar Republic in charge of Germany. My first instincts actually pointed to Hindenburg or Hitler, but ultimately I felt that was TOO direct, and thought Drexler deserved a timeline in which to shine.

 

[Grandkhan]

I'm kind of a fan of using OTL people for politicians in timelines, because frankly coming up with names is hard and, if you look at real people, most of them don't have generic names. How many British leaders have there been named something like John Smith? Hence, Miguel Primo di Rivera was going to be my leader of Spain eventually, and I had Carl Theodore Zahle as Statsminister of Denmark for a while. Basically, names are hard to come up with, but the real world is a pretty good resource.

 

[Terrance888]

I agree with GK.

Good names=Tough. I can make up personalities and stuff, but names are very hard for me.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

To be fair, I've been pretty randomly googling names and surnames for various cultures and peoples. Then I just use a RNG to pick them. For a while I was using Milarqui as a resource for Spanish names, and in some cases, I've used real names of NESers, which has been amusing. I think at the moment we have two heads of government which are actually NESers. Lately, I've also been using XCOM, which randomly generates naems for various nations, and works fairly well.

 

[TheLastJacobite]

I miss all the inside jokes from New England's colonies in ABNW lol

I generally use mixes of historical figures, people I know and professional athletes. I'm just waiting for the right time to use Ovechkin...

 

[Lord_Iggy]

To be fair, I've been pretty randomly googling names and surnames for various cultures and peoples. Then I just use a RNG to pick them. For a while I was using Milarqui as a resource for Spanish names, and in some cases, I've used real names of NESers, which has been amusing. I think at the moment we have two heads of government which are actually NESers. Lately, I've also been using XCOM, which randomly generates naems for various nations, and works fairly well.

I have used a handful of historical names, but never in their accurate times or locations, so as to indicate that they are clearly different people. The one exception to this has been an oblique reference to the explorer Fridtjof Nansen. As for using likenesses- I have definitely used pictures of OTL people, mostly because there aren't many pictures of people who didn't exist in OTL, but I invariably invent new names for them.

I miss all the inside jokes from New England's colonies in ABNW lol

I generally use mixes of historical figures, people I know and professional athletes. I'm just waiting for the right time to use Ovechkin...

Ovechkin will have to meet his end at the hands of an ironically named Swede, I think.

 

[Immaculate]

Spoiler rooties :

Rooties (1930-1936)

Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.​

Romans 12:15-18​

Origins and Ideological Outline

The exact origin or history of the Root movement is difficult to identify. Certainly it borrows heavily from the South American Moralism movement of the 1930s, the Evangelical (and post-Evangelical) movement, Occitanian and Iberian Humanism, the collectivist movement of Jacksonia and even Bohemian counter-culture.

Rooties are informally organized and pride themselves on its ‘grass-roots’ origin, that it is a natural outgrowth to the social, religious, and economic environment of 1930s South America. Certainly the movement, or parts thereof, though perhaps not identifying itself as the ‘Roots’ movement, has existed in South America in various forms for decades. Perhaps what provided the greatest push towards a popular, more wide-ranging movement was the collapse of the Colombian economy as a result of the nationalization of the Venezuelan-Colombian pipeline and the general economic downturn of the great depression. It also gained considerable momentum as a result of the Colombian governmental paralysis of 1934-1936. Alternatively an argument could be made that by this time, the movement was already gaining momentum in Brazil, and particularly Uruguay as early as 1933. Certainly some Rootie intellectuals have pointed to the prohibition laws passed in many South American states during this period as an example of what religion ‘should not do’.

Ultimately however, Rooties are a counter-cultural movement. Firstly, the Moralist political movement and indeed many parts of the Catholic educational system in Colombia had long implied that faith, good works, and obedience would lead to greater material wealth. Two things happened to challenge this view and to create substantial hardship for the people of Colombia. The first were the great eastern fires which killed, maimed or displaced hundreds of thousands. The second was, as a result of the collapse of the Venezuelan-Colombia oil treaty and the global depression, a 20% contraction in the Colombian economy in a matter of months. These two factors created a previously unimaginable strain upon the Colombian economy and support infrastructure- both public and private/religious. Unemployed, often homeless ‘tramps’ appeared in all major cities and across the country-side, especially in the eastern areas most hit by the great fires. The implications of prosperity arising from faith was thoroughly put into question and with it the authority of both the Moralist government and the Catholic educational system and, to a lesser degree, church. Secondly, first the Traditionists and then the Moralists governments had both put great expectations in the role of oil wealth and big business in making the Colombians into ‘something greater’. Indeed the very early 1930s saw some of that dream become reality. Hopes were high. And then they were dashed. The previously pro-Big business government was quick to find a scapegoat and they quickly placed the blame upon the corporations. Primarily disillusioned with the failure of the oil projects, but also, to some extent, caught up in the government rhetoric (despite themselves), the Rooties are fiercely anti-corporate.

Anti-Authority, Decentralization

They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved.​

2 Peter 2:19​

Rooties are strongly anti-authority; they are against distant centralized governance in both their personal and in their spiritual lives. In this way they can be a problem for both the federal government and Catholic Church (and schools) wherever they are found. Their slogan for government is ‘Lead Without Control’.

Their anti-authoritative ideology of the Root Movement manifests itself in a disdain for the ‘established’ political machinery and Rooties if they vote, which is rare, vote for their own party, the Raíces del Comunidad (Community Roots) party. This party is relatively new, and though enjoying very quick growth, and motivated organizers, is still very small and hugely underfunded in comparison to its competitors.

Rooties advocate much greater decentralization of authority, placing the Community (city- or part thereof in larger centers, municipal, or parish) government in much greater authority, through the efforts of the local population. As envisioned, the community-driven governance would be highly decentralized from the federal governance which itself would be of limited scope. Communities might be driven, depending on local situations, primarily by agricultural or industrial concerns, and adopt a number of statutes or laws specific to their circumstance.

They see in the federal government a continued role for managing foreign affairs, the military, and large scale economic projects which Rooties universally believe should be under the control and management of the tax-payer, and not private enterprise (this being their exception to their generally ‘smaller, more decentralized government views).

Regarding the church, they are fiercely against any role for the Catholic church in education and believe that the language and statements of the pope and his bureaucracy effectively distance the average worshipper from God’s will instead of bringing them closer. They see in the language used the shadow of imperialism. They see in the hierarchical organization of the Church a controlling, authoritative hand. Rooties, for this reason, reject Catholicism. They believe in a personal relationship with God and Jesus that does not require the intermediacy of a priest. This stance, in of itself, is the single greatest detriment to the growth of the movement as Catholicism is so deeply entrenched in South America and Colombia in particular as to create a major obstacle to religion based anti-authoritarian ideology.


Materialism and Economics

Jesus said to him, “If you would be perfect, go, sell what you possess and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” ​

Matthew 19:21​

Arguably rising from a failure or materialism, the Rooties are fiercely anti-materialistic, valuing instead generosity, community support. They renounce consumerism. They support small-scale agriculture and industry whenever possible and draw upon biblical support for community for inspiration.

Though still very limited in size, small-scale Rootie cooperative networks have begun to develop, especially in the eastern rural areas previously devastated by the Great Fires and in the city of Medellín. These networks focus on personalized relationships, making local farm products available for purchase through small-scale grocers willing to support the networks. The motto, “Community Grown” arose as a label to indicate agricultural products developed within the Rootie model but has already come to encompass a variety of non-agricultural goods and even services that support the Rootie economic networks in diverse ways.

The Rootie economic model is ultimately driven by their communalist ideology. This does not mean they believe in community property, they do not advocate the abolishment of private property. Instead, well-funded Rooties would do well to practice generosity and community support through charity or community investment.

A limited number of Rooties practice diverse forms of asceticism. These form a minority population even within the most fundamental Rootie organizations.


Religion and Spirituality

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. ​

John 3:16​

The South American people in general and the Colombians in particular, are a religious people and while Rooties are disillusioned with the Catholic teachings, they maintain a strong faith and use the bible to guide much of their ideology.

The majority of Rooties come from a Catholic background and despite their anti-authoritarian views, often has difficulties reconciling their ideological principles with what they have learnt and incorporated from the Church. Ultimately however the Rootie movement and the Catholic Church cannot be reconciled.

Rooties teach that the hierarchy and language of the Church makes discussion and questioning impossible, that the ‘declarations of the pope’ are authoritative and prevent dialogue. This is in opposition to the Rootie views on faith, which are based in questioning, in dialogue, and in an active participation in religion. Indeed they advocate moving the Catholic church from tis privileged place in society to being one voice of many and advocate the deinstitutionalizing of religion. They advocate smaller, community-driven worship that is inclusive, questioning, and distinctly anti-authoritarian.

One Rootie author, writing about Catholicism, lists these complaints, a commitment to hierarchy and the status quo; the loss of lay involvement; institutional values rather than community focus; church at the centre of society rather than the margins; the use of political power to bring in the Kingdom; religious compulsion; punitive rather than restorative justice; marginalisation of women, the poor, and dissident movements; inattentiveness to the criticisms of those outraged by the historic association of Christianity with patriarchy, warfare, injustice and patronage; partiality for respectability and top-down mission; attractional evangelism; assuming the Christian story is known; and a preoccupation with the rich and powerful.

Rooties are also strong anti-Moralist, though they are obviously inspired by it. Moralist, at least in Colombia, has been characterized by Prosperity theology, which is expressly refuted by the Rootie movement. Additionally, Moralism is seen as authoritative and suppressive of social justice, with the most obvious criticisms being the role Moralism played in prohibition and the push within the movement to keep women out of the workplace, both of which the Rootie movement reject in their entirety. Additionally Rooties are adamantly against the politicization of religion and their own political party, the Raíces del Comunidad seeks to reduce religious influence in Colombian politics while remaining true to Christ’s techings. Generally Rooties consider themselves to be what the Moralist should have been, a spiritual and religious guidance for everyday life; they just think the Moralists got it completely wrong.

Ideologically, Rooties may consider themselves Evangelicals or something else, but many just worship in an informal way they call “Community Church”. No doubt the future will see this worship organize and formalize should the Rootie population grow. Much of their ideology remains undefined but they reject ‘original sin’ and embrace the ‘saving sacrifice’ of Jesus, believing that true commitment and faith in God and Jesus is enough, in of itself, to gain heaven.

Rootie worship, generally, is characterized by an inclusive and lively participatory format with community arts and music thrown in on a large scale. Participants avoid power relationship between one-another and religious development is almost purely volunteer driven.

A small number of Rooties dedicated to the “Community Church” live a missional living lifestyle, their motto being the same as the rest of the movement, to ‘Lead Without Control’

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Thank you Immaculate, that should be most helpful.

 

[J.K. Stockholme]

I have no trouble finding names. I avoid real people with a passion. I usually find a list of important locals from wikipedia, and smash their surnames and given names together.

Pascal Saysset was a prime example of that.

 

[SouthernKing]

IMO, one of the things that makes alternate history interesting is having OTL people pop up in different positions. It's more effective to have a world full of real people than a world full of John Does.

 

[Terrance888]

Richard Nixon the used car salesman.

 

[GamezRule]

I am tempted to have President Charles Manson.

 

[Lord_Herobrine]

I am tempted to have President Charles Manson.

Now THAT would be scary...

Probably would change the national anthem to 'Helter Skelter.'

 

[Immaculate]

edit- wrong thread- so sorry.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

IMO, one of the things that makes alternate history interesting is having OTL people pop up in different positions. It's more effective to have a world full of real people than a world full of John Does.

Just because someone is a fictional character does not make them a John Doe- I strongly disagree with you on this point.

Now THAT would be scary...

Probably would change the national anthem to 'Helter Skelter.'

Of course, this would likely be a completely different Charles Manson than the one we know, so it wouldn't be scary at all, just... nonsensical.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Taking a break from what's becoming a surprisingly painful update to do to comment here once more:

When you get down to it, having OTL figures versus randomly generated ones, ultimately says a lot about a person and their world view. The existence of OTL figures implies some sort of hand of fate that causes the emergence of these people regardless of the cirumstances. Of course using completely randomly generated names implies that there is no set order to things and that it's a mere historical irony that anyone exists at any given time. Ugh, too much updating, brain hurting.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

That pretty elegantly summarizes my thoughts on the matter. Good luck with the update EQ!

 

[J.K. Stockholme]

Taking a break from what's becoming a surprisingly painful update to do to comment here once more:

When you get down to it, having OTL figures versus randomly generated ones, ultimately says a lot about a person and their world view. The existence of OTL figures implies some sort of hand of fate that causes the emergence of these people regardless of the cirumstances. Of course using completely randomly generated names implies that there is no set order to things and that it's a mere historical irony that anyone exists at any given time. Ugh, too much updating, brain hurting.

That's clever reasoning.