Capto Iugulum Background Thread

[Lord of Elves]

I have no idea what the situation is or has been in France. As far as religion goes, Spain used to be the "Empire of Holy Spain" and used to have a far more direct connection to the Roman Catholic church. For reasons that escape me, though I suspect it had to do with some sort of Italian nationalist paroxysm, an Emperor of Spain was either deprived of the honor or executed outright, and that ended the whole business. The first major war fought in the NES was the War of the Catholic League, between what I'll call the North Sea Alliance (Sweden, Britain and the Netherlands) and the Catholic League (Spain and friends). Before this, Protestant vs Catholic seemed widely regarded as the primary divide between the European powers and between any other European states in the world (United States, Brazil, etc).

Motivations for the War of the Catholic League were kind of mixed. The war was justified in Sweden, Britain and the Netherlands as a strike back against a potential international alliance of Papist, absolutist states that wanted to crush Protestant trade, commerce and power inside and outside of Europe. An important part of striking the blow against Papist tyranny was defeating Spain and if possible, depriving Spain of her colonies. From an OOC perspective, the idea of defeating and divvying up Spain was appealing, but it was also important from an IC perspective of using the War of the Catholic League as an excuse to defeat Spain as the most powerful of the European states.

Of course, ultimately, the war was a humiliating defeat for the North Sea powers and resulted in territorial concessions by Great Britain to Spain (independence of Jamaica, etc) and monetary reparations by Sweden and the Netherlands. As I recall an indirect result of the War of the Catholic League, vis a vis British military and economic weakness in the immediate post-war period, was the creation of Spanish India.

After the War of the Catholic League Spanish military and economic dominance seemed somewhat unassailable, and this was compounded by the break up of the North Sea powers and the souring of Anglo-Swedish relations. Spain decided to be magnanimous in the peace and agreed to disband the Catholic League while maintaining strictly secular alliances with many of its members. Interestingly enough, Portugal never picked a side in the conflict (they might have belatedly declared war on the North Sea powers at the very end?).

Two sides notes are that Empress Christine was originally married to a Polish prince, but their marriage was nullified during the Union Crisis so that she could be married to the "King of Norway". Of course, the justification was that the good, Lutheran Swedish royalty couldn't put up with Polish Catholic nonsense anymore. There was also a failed royal marriage between Sweden and Portugal which was broken up over issues of religion.

 

[TheLizardKing]

Accually the war was caused by Drekler. Well, Drekler's American cousins. Admit it LoE.

 

[ZeletDude]

Every war is caused by Drexler, some how.

 

[JohannaK]

I demand more Drekler comics.

 

[TheLizardKing]

No, in reality, it was I, as the United States of America that hastily organized (well, rather tricked LoE into organizing) that entire Protestant gang bang. Enough at least to distract Spain, for me to grab OTL Florida and Texas, and drop out. Then I sat on the sides and laughed as LoE and Heraclius (if I recall correctly) struggled with Spain.

Also, Drekler comics will come after the update, I imagine. As long as there is something I can do a comic on.

 

[ZeletDude]

There will always be things for you to do comics on..
and regarding the Catholic War, I WARNED LOE.
It's a trap, I told him..

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I've been working out a few more of the ins and outs of Vinlandic culture. As of late, I've been focusing on the language, and specifically the accent. The language is recognizably Swedish, but it's loaded with Russian, Norwegian, English, Finnish and Danish loanwords. Despite this, it is still fully comprehensible to a speaker of proper old-country Swedish. However, while proper Vinlandic Swedish is quite clear, the language's vernacular is riddled with figures of speech and odd bits of jargon between one and three centuries separated from its origins. Further clouding matters are the accents of Vinlanders. According to stereotype, the cosmopolitan upper class speaks relatively proper Swedish, while progressively poorer segments of the society tend to slur (to varying degrees) their 's' sounds to 'sh', often turning numerous consonants into voiceless fricatives. Thus, one might expect some yokel Jan Jansson farmer/logger type from rural Dammark to pronounce 'Nya Sverige' as 'nyah-shveh-ree-chuh' (the ch being pronounced like Loch or Bach) while an sophisticated Oscar Silversköld would instead say a proper 'nya-svay-ree-hah'. The accents in Adlö and Haroldstad, as a result of their relatively more recent origins, are much harder to distinguish from Swedish, and accents in the immigrant-laden Västermark... well, they're just all over the place.

In terms of names, patronymics are still quite common, particularly in rural areas and amongst the lower and middle classes. Fixed surnames being more common in large cities, in the upper class (clergy, nobility, craftsmen and artisans frequently gained surnames) and in non-Scandinavian recent immigrant populations. Prominent politicans Grim Magnusson and Ole Gudrunsson are both named for their fathers, and thus lack an intergenerational surname. This is indicative of their lower and middle-class origins. Conversely, former Statsminister Axel Gyllenstjerna was of noble stock, possessing a name with some significant history back in Sweden.

 

[Grandkhan]

Re: religion.

My understanding was that religion is a lot more politically charged in this TL than it was in ours by this point.

Spain was, again, the Empire of Holy Spain until the Spanish refused to help the Pope out when Rome was overthrown by the Papal Republic. As a result, the Pope explicitly revoked the right for the Emperor of Spain to title himself 'Holy'. Thats a clear use of religious titles and doctrine to justify political aims.

On top of that, as LoE said, some of the big wars of the 19th Century were pretty politically charged. The War of the Catholic League (despite being, deep down, an attempt at a gangbang against Spain) happened specifically as a result of Spain attempting to forge some kind of Catholic coalition - once again, using religion as a basis for a political grouping. The defining conflict of Capto Iugulum from 1830ish to 1908 was the Spanish Empire vs. an ascendant British Empire, with the Spanish being explicitly a 'holy' Empire for part of it (eg. the War of the American Presidency), thus implying that the Emperor's causes have backing from God. During the Spanish Civil War I tried to get a concordat with the Vatican and reinstate the Empire of Holy Spain title, as well as excommunicating the Republicans, but it never went anywhere.

On top of that, the Pope has had (and still has) some degree of temporal power basically his entire existence. Giving the Pope temporal power would entangle him in earthly politics, and given that his territory was slap bang in one of the tensest regions in Europe, they got deep in it.

All this means that religion has a lot higher investment in political issues than it did OTL, because you've got the Pope carrying out secular policy as well, and when the pope carries out secular policy, that means that its supported by the Catholic Church at large.

As such, the rise of Moralism in South America is a pretty logical extension - they're just taking the Church's greater interference in secular affairs and codifying it into an ideology.

 

[Lord of Elves]

No, in reality, it was I, as the United States of America that hastily organized (well, rather tricked LoE into organizing) that entire Protestant gang bang. Enough at least to distract Spain, for me to grab OTL Florida and Texas, and drop out. Then I sat on the sides and laughed as LoE and Heraclius (if I recall correctly) struggled with Spain.

Also, Drekler comics will come after the update, I imagine. As long as there is something I can do a comic on.

You act as if I needed to be convinced to go to war with Spain against my will
I still maintain that Spain was far more cohesive and powerful within itself and within the empire at the time of the War of the Catholic League and afterwards than it had a right to be. I fully expected that if you so much as poked one of Spain's colonies the others would want to make their bid for independence, and the empire would collapse upon itself. Beforehand I was trying to assemble a network of alliances in South America with the purpose of pouncing on Spanish territory when the time came. Unfortunately our good friends Venezuela and Chile weren't up for the fight.

 

[Terrance888]

For France, I sketched out a basic backstory as Normandy during the Burgundy-Orleans war.

France is divided into Papist and Protestant powers, and as Protestant Normandy I had a star-crossed goal of uniting the Protestants to capture Paris, divvy up Burgundy and create a Protestant Union of France. The Burgundian-Orleans war started sooner than I expected, but I applied rhetoric to my allied Protestant states to support Orleans. Eventually, with the war threatening to spiral out of control with Spain encouraging more Catholics to join the fight and nuetral Protestants vowing to join if more Catholics joined, and with Britain ignoring my pleas for aid, I sue'd for peace.

One major element which I used was the so called "Forty-Years War" which destroyed a HRE style organization in France (maybe once led by Spain?). If the Forty-Years war did destroy the "Holy Roman Empire of the French/Spanish Nation", then the obvious "Sweden" would be England or Brandenburg, as the states bordering those two are Protestant, while those bordering Spain and the Catholic strongholds of Paris Burgundy are Catholic.

 

[Lord of Elves]

@Terrance, it's interesting you mention the Protestant/Catholic divide in France. I put a fair amount of effort into trying to convince Catholic states that it wasn't in their interests to join the Catholic League (noted successes being Brittany and Portugal, the former which I scared into following my agenda by making ominous whisperings about how the Pope was going to destroy the Celtic rite), especially in France. I see no reason, given that at the start of the NES my network of alliances and client states was essentially Brandenburg, Prussia, Novgorod and Denmark, why Sweden couldn't be "the Sweden" in any religious wars on the continent.

It additionally provides further justification for how irksome the Catholic League was from a religious/cultural perspective, though Grandkhan is being very apt when he implies that the Protestant states on the continent were fearful of being cut out by an international Catholic alliance. That was indeed our primary concern.

 

[Terrance888]

That's indeed possible, seeing the In NES Britain basically giving me (Normandy) the cold shoulder. (RAEG)

 

[Lord of Elves]

Let's Talk About Pomerania

It's that bit over there.​

Being to that to the exception of Germany and now-defunct Poland Scandinavia is the nation that was most effected by the existence and sudden non-existence of Pomerania, I've decided to devote this small post to outlining what I call the Pomeranian Crises. At the start of the NES, way back in 1830, Pomerania was a territory held by the Swedish crown. The House of Vasa ruled it as a possession with the aid of transplanted governors and officials, as well as a native Swedish-speaking upper class. However, Pomerania was a point of contention among Swedish allies in Brandenburg and Prussia, who both viewed Pomerania as their rightful territory. With the creation of the Catholic League, it was considered important (by me) to keep the network of Swedish allies and client states in check, and so Pomerania was promised to the Kingdom of Prussia as a means of maintaining the balance of power (Prussia being the weakest of any of the German states). The transfer was affected in 1832/1833 and lasted for roughly two years.

In 1834 (or maybe 1835) the King of Prussia was implicated in a series of revolts and civil disturbances in Swedish Riga and Livonia, and merchant/university liberals in Stettin and throughout the rest of Pomerania took the opportunity to rise up against the House of Hohenzollern.

Rare colorized photo of the last King of Prussia​

In order to punish the Hohenzollern royals, Sweden decided to provide military and financial aid to the rebels, and enlisted Polish help in a joint invasion of Prussia. Prussia was defeated on the battlefield and divided between Sweden and Poland, Pomerania being retained by Sweden and Poland being granted territory on the Baltic Sea. This was the First Pomeranian Crisis.

The Second Pomeranian Crisis was a dispute between Sweden and the Kingdom of Brandenburg over firstly Brandenburg's access to the port of Stettin and thereby the Baltic Sea, and also the issue of "ultimate" Pomeranian sovereignty. Swedish officials, who were determined not to make the same mistake that was made in Prussia, refused for some time to allow Brandenburg the unilateral access to Stettin that it desired for fear of setting any precedence of conceding Pomeranian sovereignty to Berlin. Ultimately Brandenburg forced the issue, and the First Treaty of Stettin was signed between Sweden and Brandenburg granting Brandenburg access to the port of Stettin so long as Brandenburg agreed to use Stettin in exclusivity as its access to the Baltic Sea. This proved to be a grave miscalculation on Brandenburg's part, as all the income received from Hanoverian Brandenburg was lost once Danish ports on the North Sea were no longer legal objects, and resulted in the secession of Hanover with support of Sweden, the Northern League and Denmark. Brandenburg was forced to recognize the sovereignty of Hanover in a treaty which consisted of various concessions to Sweden and its Northern League allies, and Brandenburg, Denmark and Hanover all joined the Northern League. The elimination of Brandenburg as a destabilizing factor in continental Europe was apparently all the various members of the League felt was necessary, and after the creation of an independent Hanover, the League slowly shuddered to a halt and was disbanded.

In order to avoid any more "Pomeranian Crises" over the course of the BT, Scandinavia set about a plan for Pomeranian sovereignty which resulted in the creation of an independent Kingdom of Pomerania ruled by a branch of the House of Vasa. The Third Pomeranian Crisis was a series of diplomatic incidents and standoffs between the Empire of Scandinavia and the Kingdom of Brandenburg from 1901 to 1903 which resulted in the disbanding of the Polish-Scandinavian alliance and the abdication of the Swedish Pomeranian monarchy. The German Brotherhood operated in these years as a terrorist organization in Pomerania, killing Scandinavian politicians and businessmen and stirring up public discontent against the crown, with tacit support from Brandenburg. Brandenburg sought to force the Pomeranian question by labeling the Empire of Scandinavia as the supporters of an oppressive regime in Pomerania that sought to disenfranchise the German majority in the country. Scandinavia was made to accept the abdication of the Pomeranian monarchy by an embargo enacted by Great Britain following the falsification of an "outburst" by a Scandinavian diplomat wherein threats were made to the effect of "killing every German in Pomerania ... before ceding it to Brandenburg".

At the end of the Great War, economic and political misfortune made prevention of Pomerania's entrance to a German union an impossibility for Scandinavia, and eventually sovereignty was surrendered in total.

The moral of this story is never trust Poles.

 

[GamezRule]

You make it sound as if the Brandenburg player actually knew what he was doing.

Also, the collapse of Brandenburg following the Stettin Agreement was less miscalculation, more miscommunication. I can go into further detail if necessary.

 

[TheLizardKing]

It also helps when the Polish player was emotionally unstable for a majority of the NES.

 

[ZeletDude]

hahahaha, TLK that is so true.

 

[JohannaK]

Who was Poland? What does BT mean?

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Boring Times. Essentially, a time-skip.

 

[Circuit]

I'm going to resurrect something: American state names.

Any reference to Native Americans that was not carried over from the Scott era doesn't make much sense in this timeline. Reason? While genocide against the Native Americans was restrained OTL, ATL there was no restraint. Thus, any Native Americans who did not flee to Vinland are either dead or Cherokee. Granted, some of the MDs are natively named (Apache, Utah, Dakota), but that was at a time when there were still natives to name them after. These days, there not only may not be any natives there, there may not be enough record of them to justify naming a state after them.

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

Who was Poland?

Double A.