Caveman 2 Cosmos (ideas/discussions thread)

[Hydromancerx]

@StrategyOnly can I get a new tech added in Oratory requires priesthood, is an ancient tech, leads to Coed of Laws, Aristocracy and Drama

"Coed" of Laws.

But on a serious note what its the location on the tree for Oratory so I can add it to my online tech tree?

EDIT: Something like this?

Oratory
Req Techs: Priesthood
Location: X25 Y7
Cost: Same as Priesthood
Leads To: Code of Laws, Aristocracy, Drama

EDIT2: Which means the other techs would become ...

Code of Laws
Req Techs: Writing AND Monarchy AND Oratory

Aristocracy
Req Techs: Monarchy AND Falconry AND Caste System AND Oratory

Drama
Req Techs: Literature AND Aesthetics AND Combat Sports AND Folk Dance AND Oratory

Correct?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

"Coed" of Laws.

But on a serious note what its the location on the tree for Oratory so I can add it to my online tech tree?

EDIT: Something like this?

Oratory
Req Techs: Priesthood
Location: X25 Y7
Cost: Same as Priesthood
Leads To: Code of Laws, Aristocracy, Drama

EDIT2: Which means the other techs would become ...

Code of Laws
Req Techs: Writing AND Monarchy AND Oratory

Aristocracy
Req Techs: Monarchy AND Falconry AND Caste System AND Oratory

Drama
Req Techs: Literature AND Aesthetics AND Combat Sports AND Folk Dance AND Oratory

Correct?

Oratory
Req Techs: Priesthood
Location: X25 Y7
Cost: Same as Philosophy
Leads To: Code of Laws, Drama

Code of Laws
Req Techs: Writing AND Monarchy AND Oratory

Aristocracy
Req Techs: Monarchy AND Falconry AND Caste System AND Oratory Since req Monarchy

Drama
Req Techs: Literature AND Aesthetics AND Combat Sports AND Folk Dance AND Oratory

 

[Il Principe]

Sorry. So the sheriff thing is a US one, no wonder I didn´t get it.

Municipal, County, State, and Federal, with some specialty agencies stuffed in here and there.

And I thought we had already too much bureaucracy

Makes me wonder if some malus to law enforcement buildings makes sense if you combine too many in one city. Sheriffs Office+PD+Security+Agency= additonal cost or even a slight reduction in their crime fighting ability because they step on each others toes

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Dancing Hoskuld

Sounds good. I will go add the tech to the online tech tree and SO can add it to the game.

If you have more tech ideas, please post them so we can fit them into the tree.

 

[Nakkimunakas]

So, to clarify:

1) In that screen shot the hover text says +1 from military standard. Is this screenshot from after military standard has goen obsolete? (I assume so from the context of your post?).

2) You say you actually get less XP than is shown. ARe you getting the correct amount (i.e. - all the non-obsolete plusses)?

3) Can you confirm which build you are using (v22, SVN, other??)

Could you also post the save game along with the clarifications please

1) Military standard has allreary gone obsolete.

2)I got 4 so only the military standard shows xp that I should not get. Everything else seems to give correct amount. I noticed this by trying to make some level 2 units with 5 xp(according the build icon) but then instead I had bunch of 4xp unit running around. I checked the tech tree and military standard had just gone obsolete, before this I got the correct amount of 5xp according the build icon.

3) v21

I already played past this in my save game about a 100 turns so this does not apply to all unit categories e.g. gunpowder. Military standard should be at least in the capital and Nidaros, propaply in many other cities too. The save - View attachment 318043

 

[Koshling]

1) Military standard has allreary gone obsolete.

2)I got 4 so only the military standard shows xp that I should not get. Everything else seems to give correct amount. I noticed this by trying to make some level 2 units with 5 xp(according the build icon) but then instead I had bunch of 4xp unit running around. I checked the tech tree and military standard had just gone obsolete, before this I got the correct amount of 5xp according the build icon.

3) v21

I already played past this in my save game about a 100 turns so this does not apply to all unit categories e.g. gunpowder. Military standard should be at least in the capital and Nidaros, propaply in many other cities too. The save - View attachment 318043

I suspect this is explained by the building replacement fixes that went into v22, but I'll run your save game later to verify that (and if not to fix it)

 

[DRJ]

After reading a comment of The_J in the RoH thread that several barb fractions could be "hacked in" I sent a PM to him how he imagined that could work.

I specifically asked because - as some of you might have already read - my idea was to have several barbs, like herbivores, carnivores, neanderthals, homo erectus, etc and finally normal barbs.

This he replied:

"(...) About the different fractions of barbs, yes it can work, although otherwise than you might have thought.
It's possible to force a first contact of 2 AI civs by python, and have them declare war upon each other, having them at "always war" status as well.

If this is done for every civ [herbivores and carnivores, neanderthals etc at always war with all other civs] you do get something which is more or less a barb fraction.

You can also have it modified that those quasi civs are not shown in scoreboard or at foreign advisor, to have the illusion of other barb fractions manifested

All other barbarian mechanisms would not yet been active, so the quasi barb fractions might needs some other boni.

How this could work I showed in this mod-component which I programmed some time ago.
Not perfect yet but quite ok.

If you might need help in realizing this in C2C I would like to help you guys but I'm sorry, can't help with something else atm, as I have a lot of work to do."

For all german speaking lurkers, here's the original text:

Spoiler :

Konkret zu den versch. Barb-Fraktionen: Das geht.
Wenn auch anders als gedacht.

Es ist möglich, dass man beim Erstkontakt zw. 2 Zivs per Python erzwingt, dass diese sich den Krieg erklären und man kann die Zivs dann auch auf Always War setzen.

Wenn man das bei einer Ziv konstant durchführt, führt dies dazu dass diese Ziv mit jedem im Krieg ist und mit niemandem Diplo führen kann, was mehr oder weniger ja einer Barb-Ziv entspricht.

Man kann dann noch dafür sorgen, dass diese Zivs weder im Scoreboard noch im Auslandsberater erscheinen, um die "Illusion" einer weiteren Barb-Ziv auszubauen.

Leider sind die anderen Barb-Mechanismen für diese Ziv nicht aktiv, die bräuchte dann wahrscheinlich noch ein paar mehr Boni, aber mMn ist das ganze ausreichend.

Hab' das in einem meiner Mod-Komponenten (diesem) auch schon demonstriert.
Nicht perfekt, aber ganz okay.

Falls in dem Aspekt Hilfe nötig ist, kann ich etwas mithelfen, aber leider nicht mehr, tut mir Leid .

One thing I don't understand fully yet is if the different barb fractions only would work for scenarios like GEM or for normal random map games as well...

Feedback welcome^^

 

[AIAndy]

In general, different barb factions are not too hard to make. The only issue is that there are a lot of references in the code to barbarian treatment and not all of it uses the same way to recognize the barbarian player.
So it takes some time to filter through all of that and decide how the new factions are to be treated in regards to the game mechanics.
My plan, when I finally get around to that part, is a new XML file to specify the special players, their relations and their treatment.

 

[charlesb96]

I feel that walls, towers and castles, and all the things related to them should never go obsolete. The should be replaced, but still allowed to be built if you want. I might have gunpowder and cannons, but those I am facing might not, so the walls and such would still be effective against them. Just have them replaced by the next upgrade. Arrow slits give a bonus to gunpowder weapons so they should be able to still be built in the industrial age and later.

Also the buildings and promotions, Poison crafters hut and poison tips, and Bamboo Armorer, should not go obsolete, for the same reasons. Just because I don't have archers anymore, I will still be facing them for a long time. Poison tips on guns? Bayonets. Can there also be more armor, like when you get Iron, build iron or steel breast plates for a promotion given by a building. Kevlar vests for modern age. And they should still give a bonus against melee and archer, even if you don't have them, they will go obsolete on their own when NO ONE has them anymore. But even then, you might find barbarians that still have them.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

After reading a comment of The_J in the RoH thread that several barb fractions could be "hacked in" I sent a PM to him how he imagined that could work.

I specifically asked because - as some of you might have already read - my idea was to have several barbs, like herbivores, carnivores, neanderthals, homo erectus, etc and finally normal barbs.

...

One thing I don't understand fully yet is if the different barb fractions only would work for scenarios like GEM or for normal random map games as well...

Feedback welcome^^

I have looked at that mod (Spawn A Civ) but did not see anything about barbarian fractions. It seemed to be more like RevDCM's barbarian cities turning into a nation but for scripting in a scenario rather than the more organic population requirement.

I feel that walls, towers and castles, and all the things related to them should never go obsolete. The should be replaced, but still allowed to be built if you want. I might have gunpowder and cannons, but those I am facing might not, so the walls and such would still be effective against them. Just have them replaced by the next upgrade. Arrow slits give a bonus to gunpowder weapons so they should be able to still be built in the industrial age and later.

When they go obsolete their defensive bonus don't. So you still get the boni against non-gunpowder units. In this case the obsolete is more a case of don't build any more. Castles give way to fortified manor houses that give way to palaces. Walls get in the way of city expansion and trade.

Also the buildings and promotions, Poison crafters hut and poison tips, and Bamboo Armorer, should not go obsolete, for the same reasons. Just because I don't have archers anymore, I will still be facing them for a long time. Poison tips on guns? Bayonets. Can there also be more armor, like when you get Iron, build iron or steel breast plates for a promotion given by a building. Kevlar vests for modern age. And they should still give a bonus against melee and archer, even if you don't have them, they will go obsolete on their own when NO ONE has them anymore. But even then, you might find barbarians that still have them.

The idea of these promotion promotions upgrading has been proposed and discussed but I don't think a final decission has been made. One side issue that needs to be addressed is the way that the unit and its promotions are displayed when the unit or stack is selected.

 

[Il Principe]

I feel that walls, towers and castles, and all the things related to them should never go obsolete. The should be replaced, but still allowed to be built if you want. I might have gunpowder and cannons, but those I am facing might not, so the walls and such would still be effective against them. Just have them replaced by the next upgrade. Arrow slits give a bonus to gunpowder weapons so they should be able to still be built in the industrial age and later.

I agree in so far, that walls were still used for quite a while in the real world. They got lower and thicker to withstand canon fire, but they were still there. On the other hand the coresponding time and tech area is already covered by barricades.

But since it´s already on the table: "exept units with high explosives".. why is this kept all the time? Explosives will breach a wall or high wall, and most baricades as well. But trying to get rid of barbed wire with explosives is pretty fruitless. And archology shielding should probably made to withstand it as well.
But barbed wire is kind of useless against tracked and more resilent wheeled vehicles.

 

[Hanny]

Cities started with thick walls, ( Hattusas was the thickest compared to its comtempories) then Cities built thin and high walls ( Constatinople for instance)to make ladders difficult to use to get over them, but when gunpower came, they went low and thick, ( Vauban star shaped) so its a reaction to the tek of the breaching weapons that cause a change in city defense construction.

 

[strategyonly]

I have looked at that mod (Spawn A Civ) but did not see anything about barbarian fractions. It seemed to be more like RevDCM's barbarian cities turning into a nation but for scripting in a scenario rather than the more organic population requirement.

What, i have never seen it (i think, heck i cant remember) but i need it to work in C2C, i have a spawn a civ already inplace but with my Dyslexia, as you well know, its hard to get things correct, sometimes.

If you look in the C2C.FPK, i have in there the folder "Barbarian Spawn", but cant figure stuff out??

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

What, i have never seen it (i think, heck i cant remember) but i need it to work in C2C, i have a spawn a civ already inplace but with my Dyslexia, as you well know, its hard to get things correct, sometimes.

If you look in the C2C.FPK, i have in there the folder "Barbarian Spawn", but cant figure stuff out??

I was fairly sure I had it working for you. Oh well back to the drawing board. But first Coffee!

 

[strategyonly]

I was fairly sure I had it working for you. Oh well back to the drawing board. But first Coffee!

No that one was a re-live spawn that you helped me with and that works great, i just have to figure out how to implement that also. So thx there.

 

[DRJ]

The_J said he would help with including it to C2C so why not ask him about the specifics?

All I did was to summorize what he said. I am sure there are still a lot of things regarding this matter which he could conduct.

 

[astrohawke]

Do you think it's a good idea to limit the civilization wonders to 1 per player? Right now it's seems a bit unrealistic that you can collect a bunch of cultures and gain access to all their different UUs and buildings.

 

[Epona222]

Do you think it's a good idea to limit the civilization wonders to 1 per player? Right now it's seems a bit unrealistic that you can collect a bunch of cultures and gain access to all their different UUs and buildings.

NO NO NO! Hate this idea. If I could only have one Civ per game it would drive me nuts, I like the diversity of being able to have several.

 

[Koshling]

Do you think it's a good idea to limit the civilization wonders to 1 per player? Right now it's seems a bit unrealistic that you can collect a bunch of cultures and gain access to all their different UUs and buildings.

No. It's a major gameplay factor that shouldn't have any stringent limits like that placed upon it IMO. The only way you get a large number of cultures is by expanding geographically (since the only way to meet the vicinity requirements of a large number is to have a large number of cities really, though obviously expansion by conquest also works). A geographically dispersed empire would quite reasonably develop regional cultures, so I don't really see a problem, even in realism terms (at least to some degree).

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

The only way you get a large number of cultures is by expanding geographically (since the only way to meet the vicinity requirements of a large number is to have a large number of cities really, though obviously expansion by conquest also works).

Can you explain this a bit more? I always thought the only way to build a different Native Culture was to conquer a city of that Native Culture. So if I start as Egypt and have Native African culture, I could expand large enough, say for example near Native Asian cultures, and then one of my cities in that region could build Native Asian culture?

Am I interpreting this correctly, and do I have to have Culturally Linked Starts to achieve this? I have always left that option Off, hoping for a diverse mix of nearby Native Cultures to conquer.