Discussion in 'Civ4 - Caveman 2 Cosmos' started by strategyonly, Aug 25, 2008.
Thank you. There should probably still be a thread to compile these logs.
Hi! I just started playing this mod again. So far enjoying it.
I have a few questions though.
Why does the Organized trait increase the XP required for unit promotions? That's kind of the Antithesis of organized.
Also, giving penalties to traits seems like it may be hard to balance. I'll let you know if any of them seem really odd.
Barbaric having the culture penalty makes sense, for obvious reasons. Also, Poor Shaka, people think he's Barbaric, but not Hitler. Unless he is, and I didn't notice.
But giving Organised that penalty makes no one ever want to play with that trait ever. Talk about negating the good effects of it.
I think it would be a good idea to change that.
I like the mod other than that, I just thought it was really absurd to negate the Organized trait by increasing the amount of XP needed for promotions. Again, about as far from Organized as you can get there.
Also, increasing civic upkeep is pretty much a good balance to all the traits besides Organized.
Oh, Technocracy civic causing unhappiness and a massive loss of culture. Scientists are apparently rude people and don't care about art.
Not complaining, but it seems really weird. Seems like every mod I play with Technocracy makes them rude jerks who don't care about art.
Really not as weird as Rise of Mankind's Communism and it's crippling money issue, since communism is a Utopian ideal, and the concept of loss of money in an utopian society is really weird.
Sorry for being busy with real life, so I haven't had time to play this mod.
I got a brand new computer, with 8 gigs of ram. So, no MAF worries.
I will continue to keep an eye out for any odd things I see, and want to ask.
OH, Salt Flats causing damage to units.
When are salt flats as harsh as deserts?
not trying to be annoying, like I said, it's been along time since I played this mod, and I enjoy it a lot.
On the traits part, put your concerns in the traits thread, they are current AGAIN under construction, ALL advise/ideas are taken into effect, and yours seems reasonable.
I believe we have thread separate for all your needs and questions, i hope
Well, like I said, I haven't been around that much.
I'll go over to the other thread.
I wasn't trying to be annoying.
Just wanted to pass along my compliments on the optimization in v27 -- I never found v26 to be especially slow, but certain functions like regenerating maps and even accessing the WB in-game are noticeably faster in v27... kudos!
You weren't being annoying at all... most of what you said is good stuff I think. Its just easier for us if the ideas are presented in the specific threads for those subjects. I realize its a big list of topics out there in the forum but if you search through them (ctrl-f) by key words you can often find the right topic thread easily. And then by placing your pointed feedback there we take it closer to heart in those conversations.
And yes, in particular, the Traits are a big deal right now and are under current evaluation so what you have to say there is VERY appreciated. (also take a look at the current proposals and discussions about them there - some of what you said has already been considered so you were suggesting something some of us already agree with you on! I just see that as a good cause to suspect you'll be able to gel with us quite nicely )
Whew! That's a relief.
I will indeed check it out later today. It's 1:29 in the morning here. I'm a bit tired.
Well, except for the "hard carriage returns" after every sentence...
Sorry about that. I'll try not to be odd with my return key.
On topic, Infinite XP, I take it, despite what it says, all it does is make it so you can constantly gain XP from animals and barbs?
Because my level 11 hunter is really confused now. With Fieldsman III, thanks to an inbattle pormotion, and Guerrila 3, and Woodsman III, and Combat III, and the double move promotions for hills and forests.
I believe it (or another option maybe) prevents the loss of experience when upgrading units. I always play with that as loosing XP when upgrading a unit has always been my biggest bugaboo from Civ4.
Both that and not loosing XP when a unit is upgraded.
But you never lose XP from upgrading a unit? I'm seriously confused here.
That doesn't make sense. In all my time from playing Civ 4, I've not once seen an unit lose XP on being upgraded.
THat wouldn't even make sense, unless it's like 1 XP or so.
Seriously, how could I never notice this? Is it removed from Settler difficulty?
I can't for the life of me figure out how they would take XP away from your units.
I have never lost any XP in playing Civ 4 for years while upgrading my units ever.
Why would they do it? I mean, how much is it? All the way to the previous level? Is it a small amount?
When you upgrade a unit that has 35XP and needs to get say 40 for the next promotion, it gets upgraded and is reduced to 25XP but still needs to get 40XP for the next promotion. This is normal Civ IV behaviour but the actual numbers can be changed in your XML global defines file.
But I'm telling you, that has never happened to me once in all the time I've played Civ 4, and I've played it for many years.
It must be removed on Settler difficulty.
That's the only way I wouldn't have noticed it once.
It sounds like it was designed especially for Deity level only. You know, where you as the player can't win.
If I have ever lost XP, I just never noticed it, or it was 1 XP, and I gained it back later. Or I only upgraded my units at something they wouldn't be reduced from.
I've upgraded Macemen to Infantry. Or maybe Riflemen, and they still have the exact same XP.
I've turned Calvary into Helicopters. and they stay the same XP. Or maybe that was a Rise of Mankind only thing. I did it in that mod.
Maybe I am the victim of the most awesome bug ever? The bug that prevents that from having an effect?
Okay, my new game has a really glitched out map.
I entered world builder to see why there were so many animals near my city, and according to world builder, every tile of the map had an animal.
Maybe not exactly every tile, but every tile within 30 of my capital city outside my borders had an animal.
Might want to reduce the spawn rate of animals.
I don't know what happened, but compared to my last game, this is a bit silly.
I'm pretty sure Settler difficulty doesn't allow 180 animals to spawn at one time.
Well... ya need to make sure you're actually hunting for them or they can build up pretty quickly depending on where you're at. Raging Barbs will get them to spawn twice as much too.
And CivIV vanilla all the way through Beyond the Sword had a xp backdown to 15 so it was even worse than we have it set here. I BELIEVE most of the time A New Dawn and RoM may have had it turned almost completely off but its always been an annoying issue (to me and many others) and since some players here seemed to actually like it I made it a game option to turn it off. It was only later that unlimiting XP gain from barbs and animals was added to the Infinite XP option.
I promise, you go back and play a Vanilla BtS game and you'll see it happen. It just wasn't quite as noticeable because you didn't cross the 15xp point as often as you do here. And the difficulty setting never had anything to do with it.
I really don't see why animals on every tile is not a bug. That cripples the AI exploration too. No wonder I had to actively search them out. Last game by 9000 BC, they all had 4 or so cities each. Some had more.
Now, they barely have any cities in now 7700 BC. You want to tell me that the AI being crushed into one or two cities is not a bug? Even on Marathon speed. I don't want to be able to conquer the world before 5000 BC on Conquest victory by using 7 archers and maybe 5 Impi. And a few rangers who could actually attack their cities and win.
Like I said, the last game I played they were not spawning on every tile. And I explored even less, a lot less. I had one or two hunters out, and only one was on autohunt. The AI actually had explorers out.
That has to be a bug. I'm not on Raging Barbs.
I doubt 400+ animals is not a bug. I was far off on my estimate of only 180.
If you want a screenshot on world builder, I will get you one.
Another issue, the show resources display is bugged, and doesn't show all resources, only select few.
Hey, I'll probably need a defensive wall of animal killing archers or something too. 5 around the perimeter of my territory.
Okay, update, animal spam seems to be dying off at last.
Still, I wasn't joking with my 400+ animals.
actually, it was 10 that the game capped the XP from barbs for. 5 for animals. none stacking. you could only get to level 4 from them. enough for the heroic epic only...which means raging barbs are a good training method.
However, even on Raging Barbs, 400+ animals never spawned in base Civ 4.
And really, it has to be a bug, because it was completely different than my last game, and I can't imagine crippling the AI's ability to build cities is not a bug.
I mean, I know Settler difficulty is the easiest, but I don't think it's a good thing in this mod if I can win the game before 5000 BC without more than 12 units.
I think most of my enemies have one city or two. While in the last game, everyone had around 4 or 5 cities at the 7000 BC mark. That's a huge difference. So, what made the animals spawn in super hordes?
I know I can build impis in one turn with my massive capital city production, but still, don't think it's supposed to be this way.
In C2C, massive barbs and animal amounts are the norm without raging. they have a greater spawn rate here, because you CANNOT be competitive without going and killing animals in the first part of the game, as you cities just don't get enough food and hammers from the tiles surrounding them, as improvements are few and low increases...for C2c that is. also, your civics drive your needed food to get the next pop into the roof and right through it on the way to orbit. Research is your most efficient part of your civ in the beginning, unless you hunt for animals. this means animals are important, and die far more often. hence why so many of them appear, especially if the continent you find them on has no native civ. raging barbs for regular BTS is C2C normal rate out of requirement. Raging barbs just make that number be massive. also, we have even larger map sizes.
AI city number...likely because they aren't the brightest. they had a period where they didnt ever go hunt. As for the early wins...the mod is a work in progress. the only truly balanced era is prehistoric right now. they currently are working up the tech tree. ancient seems to be the main focus of fixing up, while trans-human and beyond are the main focus of new developments. you are expected to win way too early. play mastery victory instead therefor. mastery is a time victory, but with a twist. if on, its the only victory condition. the guy with the most mastery points wins. achieving the other conditions simply give you said mastery points. it mainly the only reason people continue playing past a certain point. also, choose maps that force slower conquest.
I'll keep that in mind.
I'll try to start on Mastery victories.
Better go start another game, on a different map set up.
That might help.
I always pick standard size maps though.
Sorry for going crazy, it just seemed really weird.
I guess I should have more units in the beginning set up for hunting? I usually auto-explore for a bit, and then work from there to auto-hunting.
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