Caveman 2 Cosmos
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
We do have a special group of Cultural Military units that by using the gane set up Option Limited National Unit you do set a limit for those special units. But many player use the Unlimited Option and negates what was originally intended for those special mil units.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
@Thunderbrd @Toffer90
Why do we have Coliseums before Arenas? Especially since Coliseums Replace Arenas.
Why do we have Alphabet in Classical era when Writing and Scriptures are both Ancient era Techs.
These 3 idiosyncrasies have always bothered me about our Tech tree.
Why do we have Coliseums before Arenas? Especially since Coliseums Replace Arenas.
Why do we have Alphabet in Classical era when Writing and Scriptures are both Ancient era Techs.
These 3 idiosyncrasies have always bothered me about our Tech tree.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Because techs were moved around afterward and the buildings weren't reviewed since. I've often wondered if we really needed 2 buildings for this one role but as you point out, if we're replacing arenas with coliseums, we should certainly have arenas in much earlier.
Alphabet is a later development than writing alone. The first written languages were in heiroglyphics and cuneiform. Alphabet was an advancement - and in the Eastern languages was never developed. Seems like this should be a skippable tech perhaps.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Simple fix is to swap the techs they ride on. Then Coliseums would be in Classical era where building more elaborate structures was more common.
Then in this case Scriptures should come after Alphabet, imo.
irishhombre
King
The strange thing about all this I remember building arenas before colosseums. And they both available in classical era.
That has bothered me too. But I usually don't mod XML if I don't have to.
It is possible, but they are very close in the tech tree and it is possible to unlock coliseum by tech before you unlock Arena I think.
Arena should be unlocked by a late prehistoric tech, like warfare or something.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Not any more. Arena comes in in late Ancient, but Coliseums come in at Combat Sports 3rd column in Classical. Almost 10+ columns now separate them. I did not count the columns so it's a guesstimate.
That is where Fighting pits come in the precursor to Arenas. Arenas was/is supposed to be in mid Ancient era. Again swapping the Prereq tech for Arena and Coliseum will fix this problem. I could do it on the SVN. But not on Git.
Scriptures should come in somewhere close to Confucianism but definitely after Judaism.
irishhombre
King
Coliseums are available at construction. Arenas is available at combat sports. The reason I remember them coming before is how because I literally research every column in order.
Attachments
Ah, forgot about the fighting pits.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I'm getting dyslexic in my old age whwn it comes to typing, and I don't proof read my posts before I post.
So I flip things unintentionally.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Regular_CIV4BuildingsInfos:
line 4401 BUILDING_ARENA
swap line PrereqTech>TECH_COMBAT_SPORTS< for >TECH_CONSTRUCTION
and line 21622 BUILDING_COLOSEUM
swap line PrereqTech>TECH_CONSTRUCTION< for >TECH_COMBAT_SPORTS<
Both have <iPrereqPopulation>6< I would consider dropping that to 3 for Arena.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
You may be right. I'm not sure. It would take some dating research. I know a lot of the bible was written in Greek which is an alphabetic written language, BUT the Aramaic earlier stuff that comprises the Torah may have been a more symbolic language that alphabet was later derived from.
If you're saying it would be somehow defined as religious writings that come up AFTER the old testament then yeah definitely. I'm not clear on how to define the term scripture actually. Would've thought it meant 'holy book text'.
Surprisingly its even easier. And you cannot right now commit to the SVN without causing problems because the SVN is only reading what's on Git when updated.
Maybe someone can link you to the explanation again - it really is very easy. I do it on gitkraken so I'm not sure I can explain it to you how to go about it.
I say all this still being a little intimidated by Git as a whole.
I agree with your assessments on the coliseum - however there IS one thing that always bothered me about that and I wonder if whoever fixes this can take a look at the matter for me in the process. The arena was being replaced by the col but the col gave LESS XP, and I always thought that was very wrong because as a result I'd never build the coliseum.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
In days of yore, long before we got caught up in building chains, you could build and keep both.
The Old Testament covers a large period of time. The Torah (1st 5 Books of the Bible) were written down by Moses. Then from Joshua thru II Samuel various writers penned those books. The Book of Kings I and II were part of a historical record keeping of of God's interactions with the line of Kings from Saul thru Jehoiachin. The 2 Books of the Chronicles also cover the timeframe of Saul up thru the Captivity of Babylon till King Cyrus proclaims the Temple in Jerusalem is to be rebuilt. This brings in the books of Ezra, Nehemiah, and Esther. The 2 men charged by Cyrus to build the Temple. Esther is about the Jews in Captivity and how God used a young woman to save the Jewish people in captivity from being slaughtered by Haman the Agagite who tried to persuade King Ahasuerus to do this.
Just this timeframe alone is from 4000BC to 434BC. The last book written in the Old testament was the Prophet Malachi in 397BC.
It would be almost 400 more years before the 4 Gospels and the Book of acts would be written. Matthew in 37AD, Mark in 57 to 63AD, Luke 63 to 68 AD, and John 85 to 90 AD. The Book of Acts written at 65 AD. The rest of the New Testament up to I and II John and Revelations were written between 60 AD and 66 AD and are letter or epistles written by Paul to the various Churches established during this time. And which were also translated to Greek for the Greek believers. This is the timeframe for the Greek Translations. The Aramaic was before the Greek.
I and II John and Revelation written by John in 90 AD thru 96 AD.
All 66 books are considered "scriptures" even the Psalms and Proverbs.
Yudishtira
Spiritual/Creative
Scholarly consensus is that the Torah was started not much before 600BC. The Vedas of Hinduism are much older (started c. 1500BC), although it seems they may have been passed down orally for the first few centuries.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Right so given all that, Greek is where many would say the Alphabet was fully finalized as a tech so scriptures should be before Alphabet right?
I'm not sure if our dating is solid based on the tech tree but if we CAN avoid restructuring the tree, that would be good.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I have pushed these changes to Git. Hope I did it right! Arena pop requirement now at 3 instead of 6.
EDIT: Construction was wrong tech for introducing Arena. Now placed at Masonry in Ancient era which is a better placement. Fighting Pit in Preh Era, Arena in Ancient, and Coloseum in Classical. Better line of progression for this Building chain.
BUT... I really don't like Arena going Obsolete with Colosseum. They co-existed for a long time and should show that in C2C.
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JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
If you accept this then yes. But...there are sources that show other languages with an "alphabet" too before the Greeks. Western civilization adopted "Alphabet" as the "standard" form of such groups of characters that make up the base sounds of the language in question.
Yeah less work.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
Yeah that's the part I'm unsure of. Phoenecian was one of the roots that turned into Greek and I think you can trace the evolution back to cuneiform in Sumeria and see each step as a rather minor change from the previous one. I'm not sure where the modern researchers are saying that the invention, rather than the current manifestation, of the alphabet actually began though, nor would I know when that would be dated exactly.
The oldest know phonetic alphabet is from around 2000-1800 BC, called Proto-Sinaitic\Canaanite script, and was based on Egyptian hieroglyphs.
The Phoenician alphabet was based on it, and appeared around 1200-1100 BC.
Pretty much every western and middle eastern alphabets developed from the Phoenician alphabet, e.g. greek, latin, cyrillic, arabic, hebrew, etc.
There are east Asian alphabets that did not develop from the above, Man'yōgana is a possible root for most of the east Asian alphabets, based on Chinese characters. and appeared around 300-500 AD.
The Phoenician alphabet was based on it, and appeared around 1200-1100 BC.
Pretty much every western and middle eastern alphabets developed from the Phoenician alphabet, e.g. greek, latin, cyrillic, arabic, hebrew, etc.
There are east Asian alphabets that did not develop from the above, Man'yōgana is a possible root for most of the east Asian alphabets, based on Chinese characters. and appeared around 300-500 AD.
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