CBob01 AWM Training Day Game

Assuming that your death was game related:) , I think it is still worth recording and posting the results D'art. We're here to learn. Mistakes teach as much (and maybe more) than perfect play. I think it's fair to say we are all out of our comfort zone on this one.

Also, even though we skipped you, I think I speak for the Phaedo team in saying you are still welcome to join back in. We skipped you before I saw your illness post on your SG. Sorry:bowdown:
 
Aabraxan said:
So what do I put in my lovely status-tracking post above?

Seriously, until Phaedo's post, I had no clue that you weren't feeling well and hope you've recovered. By the above, do you mean that your empire died, or that you didn't feel well enough to play?
I took it to mean his empire died, but like you I didn't even know he was ill. D'Art I hope you are feeling better.

I'll check in after I get the kiddies to bed tonight and see if everyone's posting their turnsets. I'm looking forward to the discussion.


Phaedo said:
Assuming that your death was game related:) , I think it is still worth recording and posting the results D'art. We're here to learn. Mistakes teach as much (and maybe more) than perfect play. I think it's fair to say we are all out of our comfort zone on this one.

Also, even though we skipped you, I think I speak for the Phaedo team in saying you are still welcome to join back in. We skipped you before I saw your illness post on your SG. Sorry:bowdown:
I agree with Phaedo in that it would still be worth looking at the results. I learn much more from my losses than I do my victories. Heck - my first game ever as the Russians, I popped a settler from a hut and was thinking - hey this expansionistic trait is great -- until an AI showed up and wiped the floor with me because I had out-expanded my military.
 
I guess that means it is time to post he?

Here's mine:
4000 BC Turn 0
Scout goes 2 west to the mount uncovers a hut but think I'll pop it with
the second scout as it is to the north and I want to explore to the south.
Worker goes 1 west
Found Moscow. Pump up science to 100% start researching WC. Start building
scout. Citizes starts working the BG under the worker

3950 BC Turn 1
Worker 1 starts mining BG as figurethat shields will be our priority
S1 goes E then S

3900 BC Turn 2
S1 goes 2 SW to the mountain. Looks like we have some game for the hunters
and a pretty big natural boundry to our west. Some nice land.

3850 BC Turn 3
S1 goes SE then S. See another hut on a mountain. Will pop it next turn.

3800 BC Turn 4
Here we go. A Hittite warrior moves into our line of sight.
S1 pops the hut and gets a map of the region revealing the border of the
Hittite Civ and spices 2 squares ENE from the mount the scout is on. It also
looks like the sea is to our East . There is some tobacco on a river and
the Hittites have some wheat near their city but outside of their borders.
They will trade CB and 2 gold for BW. Doesn't make sense to give them
spears for temples (which we will eventually want but will be able to get
from a hut (hopefully).
Declare war! They are going to kill our scout next turn so I don't change
the city build. We can get a warrior built before he can get to us.

IBT Hittite warrior kills S1

3750 BC Turn 5
Moscow builds S2 and starts on a warrior (5 turns). Will grow at the same
time.
S2 moves W then N. Don't really see too much more than I already knew.

3700 BC Turn 6
S2 pops the hut and they give us a warrior. Hmm don't really know what to do
with him. The 2HP don't really make him good for much more than policing but
it does increase our military a bit. Decide to send him towards Moscow.

3650 BC Turn 7
Worker 1 finishes mine and starts road. Warrior heads SE
S2 goes E then N to the mountain. See grapes to the NW and another hut Easnt
that can be popped next turn

IBT Hittite scout moves SSW of Moscow.

3600 BC Turn 8
Warrior moves SE onto Worker 1.
S2 pops the hut and gets maps (Arg!!! Where is our tech?) Reveals sugar and gold
east of Moscow.

IBT Hit Scout moves 2 East and their Warrior appears

3550 BC Turn 9
Moscow makes a warrior and starts a spear (in 7)
Rename the 2HP warrior to "Punk" and move him into Moscow.
Decide to move our new Warrior south so the Hittite warrior will have to
attack across the river.
S2 moves 2 SE to the hill. Figure I want to see more of what's around Moscow and
don't really want to meet any new civs just yet.

IBT Hittite warrior attacks and dies. Russian Warrior down to 2 HP and our
borders expand. Hittite scout moves SE

3500 BC Turn 10
Moscow gets another citizen and he starts working the BG ESE of Moscow.
Worker moves E of Moscow heading for the BG next to the river.
S2 moves S to the hill
Warrior moves SE chasing the Hittite scout.

IBT Hittite scout runs W then SW (I wonder if this means there isn't any hut
in the darkness SE of Moscow)

3450 BC Turn 11
Worker moves to the BG that the citizen is working.
Warrior fortifies in the forest to get his HP back
S2 moves S to the hill

IBT nada

3400 BC Turn 12
Scout moves NW then N going up to look for more huts
Warrior back up to full strength and moves SW towards the Hittite Empire
Worker starts on a mine
Spear in 2 at Moscow with growth in 8

3350 BC Turn 13
Scout moves 2 N to the hill
Warrior moves S along the edge of the forrest.

3300 BC Turn 14
Moscow builds Spear and we are losing 1 GP. Start on settler (builds in 8
grown in 6)
Fortify spear in Moscow.
Scout moves E to another hill.
Warrior moves S revealing another spice

3250 BC Turn 15
S2 moves 2 N
Warrior moves S into the open heading for the mountain

3200 BC Turn 16
Scout moves SW then W
Warrior moves W to the mountain and sees another Hittite warrior. I'll have
to wait and see what he does but we don't have a force that can take out a
city yet so I figure the best thig to do is try to maneuver him into a
position where our Warrior can kill him

IBT Hittite warrior moves N and 2 more move N into view! This is a bit of a
problem. Moscow can probably defend but I don't reallt have a counter attack
force yet.

3150 BC Turn 17
Learn WC and start on IW
Move Punk 2 W ont tohe mountain infront of the Hittites.
Our warriors moves 1 N to go back for the defense of Moscow.
We can change the Moscow build and get an archer in 2. Currently we are
losing 1 gp/ turn with 7 in the bank. Not sure what to do but figure I'll
decide next turn.

IBT Hittites attack the Punk on the mountain and he loses. This is a pretty big
problem. The 2 Hittites move to the mountain and another moves up behind them.

3100 BC Turn 18
Worker starts on road.
S2 moves NW to the hill.
Warrior moves 1 N
Moscow changes to an archer (next turn) The Hittites still aren't in our
territory.
Not losing any more gold after the Punk died

IBT 1 Hitties warrior moves onto our mine, the other fortifies on the mountain
(it was at 2hp). 3rd one moves N to the hill under the 2hp guy.

3050 BC Turn 19
Moscow builds an archer and we are back to -1 GPT
Archer attacks Hittite warrior and wins (but down to 1 hp)
Warrior moves 1 N
Spear fortifies on the archer to protect him.

IBT both Hittite warriors move NE to the hills NW and SW of our units
Another warrior appears in front of S2

3000 BC Turn 20
Archer and spear move back to Moscow and fortify
Warrior moves NE (2 from Moscow and safe from the Hittites)
S2 moves S
Thought the warrior near S2 was a hittite but it seems he is a Yank.
They are up masonry but we can't get it.
Declare war!

CbobPhaedo1st20.jpg


This is going to be really tough. Declaring as soon as we meet people and no
peace is totally different that any game I have ever played. I gotta say I'm
way out of my comfort zone.
 
Phaedo said:
This is going to be really tough. Declaring as soon as we meet people and no
peace is totally different that any game I have ever played. I gotta say I'm
way out of my comfort zone.
'That's a fact, Jack!'

Yes, making war all the time is very different. And reading about doesn't really begin to explain the difference.

Sam Gamgee said:
The brave things in the old tales and songs, Mr. Frodo...the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have been just landed in them. I expect they had lots of chances, like us, of turning back, only they didn't.
And that is us.

I'll be posting my turns later this evening.

D'Artangan59, please do post your game. We are here to learn, not point fingers.

In fact, you'll be the tie-breaker if we can't agree on a start, since you have no built in bias.
 
:bowdown: Forgive the spam but...
Sam is the best character on the LOTR trilogy because he is the most humble and experiences the events as they impact his friends. Although it is just game-playing, there are moments when these SGs reach the same epic level and relationships seem to develop through the struggle. It won't save the world, but a certain truth happens in these games that can be shared by the observer.
And off we go :D
 
0 4000 BC

We are on a grassland and 2 BGs are very nearby, inside our initial nine tiles. We are next to a river and a rather long river at that.
Looks like a good place to call home.
Found Mosaic Moscow. Grows in 10, warrior in 5.
Worker01 moves west to BG, to mine and later road.
Scout01 heads west to the mountain.
Not bad. Goody huts to the north and lakes further west. Lots of fresh water around here. Lots of cities at size 12 with no extra plumbing needed.
[IBT]
We decide to learn Ceremonial Burial for a turn or two, until we check out the goody hut.

1 3950 BC

Worker01 mines (6 Worker Turns).
Scout01 heads north.
Set science to 100%.
[IBT]

2 3900 BC

Goody hut just gives 25 gold, no smarts. :(
Switch from CB to IW, 40 turns.
[IBT]

3 3850 BC

Scout01 N, mountain to mountian. Sees grapes and a volcano.
[IBT]

4 3800 BC

Scout01 E, mountain to mountain. Sees a goody hut to the east.
[IBT]

5 3750 BC

Scout01 E and E and we get a new city, Silly St. Peteys. Bad location, in the middle of a desert.
Silly St. Peteys grows in 10, warrior in 5.
Warrior01, just built in Mosiac Moscow, heads south to explore.

Fiddle with the preferences to always ask for a build request after building a unit.
Mosiac Moscow is building a worker, due in 5 turns.
[IBT]

6 3700 BC

Warrior01 S.
Scout01 E and E onto hill, sees the ocean.
[IBT]

7 3650 BC

Scout01 N and N, comes to what looks like lands-end.
Worker01 finishes the mine, begins to road this tile.
Warrior01 S.
[IBT]

8 3600 BC

Warrior01 S.
Scout01 W and W, sees the north coast of Russia.
[IBT]

9 3550 BC

Scout01, W, onto hill.
Warrior01 S, sees two spices.
[IBT]
Mosiac Moscow worker (02) -> granary, 20 turns.
Silly St. Peteys warrior (02) -> warrior, 5 turns.

10 3500 BC

Worker02 moves SW to BG, to mine and to road.
Worker01 moves S to BG, to mine and to road.
Warrior01 SE.
Warrior02 heads to Mosiac Moscow to protect our workers.
Scout01 W.
[IBT]

11 3450 BC

Warrior02 S.
Worker01 and 02 begin mines.
Warrior01 SE, sees a clump of three cows, excellent city site, but very far from the current Russian core.
Scout01 W and W, onto hill near the volcano.
[IBT]

12 3400 BC

Scout01 W and W again, sees goody hut.
Warrior02 SW.
Warrior01 SE.
[IBT]
A light blue scout stole our goody hut and then vanished into the fog.

13 3350 BC

Scout01 SW SW, onto mountain.
Warrior02 arrives in Mosiac Moscow.
Warrior01 sees the ocean and heads west.
Warrior01 sees a bluish-green border.
[IBT]

14 3300 BC

Warrior01 NW, parrell to the new border.
Warrior02 fortifies in Mosiac Moscow.
Scout01 is on a mountain in the middle of another desert. Well, there is a river with flood plains, but nothing interesting.
Scout01 heads south and south.
[IBT]
Someone in blue-green clothing is east of Mosiac Moscow.

Silly St. Peteys warrior (03) -> warrior, 5 turns.

15 3250 BC

Talk to the Blue-Green people. They are the Hittites.
Hittites know about:
Masonry
Alphabet
Warrior Code
Ceremonial Burial

Hittites will not let us buy this knowledge.

Our military advisor says that we are weak compared to the Hittites.

Warrior03 fortifies in Silly St. Peteys for future crowd control.
Warrior01 moves west to map the Hittite borders.
Scout02 S and S.

Talk to the Hittites again. They have 30 gold and two cities. We have 37 gold and two cities.
Try to bully them into giving techs. They do not.
We declare war on the Hittites.
[IBT]

16 3200 BC

Scout01 south.
Warrior01 SW onto mountain, sees Hittite worker.
[IBT]
Hittite worker heads west into the fog, 2 Hittite warriors appear, heading north.

17 3150 BC

Warrior01 N.
Worker01 and 02 build roads (3WT each).
Scout01 S and S.
[IBT]

18 3100 BC

Scout01 E, sees Hittite war party to the southeast.
Warrior01 N.
[IBT]
Two bands of Hittite warriors, not one. Two warriors in each party, for a total of four.

19 3050 BC

Scout01 N and NE onto hilltop, now 2N of one war party. Will they follow Scout01?
Warrior01 N.
[IBT]
Both war parties turn NE.

Silly St. Peteys warrior (04) -> warrior, 5 turns.

20 3000 BC

Warrior04 heads to Mosaic Moscow, will arrive in 4 turns.
Worker01 and 02, mines and roads completed, move northeast across the river and begin to road to Silly St. Peteys.
Warrior01 N.
Scout01 SW and SW.
[IBT]

Four Hittite rWarriors are heading towards us. We have three rWarriors to defend, with maybe a fourth warrior if we take the MP for SStP.

3000 BC Russian Empire
3000BC_RussiaTrimmedDotted.jpg


3000 BC Bothersome Hittites
3000BC_SETrimmedDotted.jpg
 
Here goes nothing.


Turn 0 - 4000BC
Moscow founded on the spot. Reveals some desert N of us. Set to build Warrior in 5
Research Iron Working at 100%, due in 40.
Worker W to BG
Scout 2W to mountain, reveals a bunch of lakes (not a coast as first thought), hills, and a goody hut on a mountain 2N of the scout. This could be good if we can grow past 6 without building a bunch of aqueducts.

F10 doesn't work (I guess because no space victory enabled. From F11, it appears 5 of our foes are (and I never got an answer on if this was legal, but I read it was, but in case you do not want to know
Spoiler :
Americans
Hittites
Germans
Babylonians
Aztecs


IBT: zzz

Turn 1 - 3950BC
Worker begins a road.
For reasons I stated in a previous post, I want to explore N first, since we are on a continent just N of the equator we may only find 1 AI up there. Scout 1N

IBT: zzz

Turn 2 - 3900BC
Scout 1N to goody hut mountain. We get 25 gold from the Goths. More hills revealed.

IBT: zzz

Turn 3 - 3850BC
Scout 1N to mountain. See some grapes.

IBT: zzz

Turn 4 - 3800BC
Worker finishes road, IW now due in 29. Worker begins mine.
Scout NE,N We are exploring the steppes now.

IBT: zzz

Turn 5 - 3750BC
Moscow Warrior-->Spear. Why? If our potential opponents are MIL, I like the defense against their archers.
Warrior move 1W. I want to see from that hill. I do not want to move the warrior far from Moscow though, since any other explorers that come through we have to declare on.
Scout N,E - we found the coast already! From the hill we see more plains and forest.

IBT: zzz

Turn 6 - 3700BC
Warrior 1W to hill. This is the coast here too, as we suspected. There are 2 sugar too.
Scout E,E to the forest.

IBT: zzz

Turn 7 - 3650BC
Warrior 1N to hill.
Scount E,SE, as we are hugging the coast now.

IBT: zzz

Turn 8 - 3600BC
Warrior SW back toward Moscow
Scout S,S to hill. View of the coast is complete, and there is a goody hut 2W.

IBT: zzz

Turn 9 - 3550BC
Warrior SW back toward Moscow
Scout W,W to goody hut. The Goths gave us maps. Gee thanks, we already knew most of that.

IBT: Moscow expands borders and grows.

Turn 10 - 3500BC
IW now due in 19, Spear due in 2.
Warrior W to Moscow.
Scout 2W to head back to unexplored territory.
Worker SE to BG

IBT: zzz

Turn 11 - 3450BC
Worker roads
Warrior W,SW. With the spear due in next we can explore a little.
Scout 2NW

IBT: zzz

Turn 12 - 3400BC
Moscow Spear-->Warrior. I would go straight for a Settler, but since this is AW I think I want an escort for my settler.
Spear fortifies in Moscow.
Scout N,W See a whole lotta nothing.
Warrior W to hill and we have our first contac..er, victim. It's Lincoln's scout. Linc has Masonry but will not trade it, even if I set the sliders to 0. Well screw you then. We declare

IBT: American scout moves N

Turn 13 - 3350BC
Warrior W
Scout w,NW. See hut.

IBT: American scout moves W out of our range

Turn 14 - 3300BC
Warrior SW to gold mountain. see more grapes and rivers.
Worker begins mine
Scout 1NW to pop hut - we get more maps. move 1 NW again and... there's an American warrior there that was in the fog before. Ouch.

IBT: Warrior kills our scout.

Turn 15 - 3250BC
Moscow Warrior-->Settler. First Warrior renamed to Warrior1 and moves W,NW. I think settling on the hill next to the lake might be good - there is access to a grassland there and a lot of shield potential.
Warrior explorer moves NW.

IBT: zzz

Turn 16 - 3200BC
Warrior1 moves N.
Rename other Warrior to Warrior2, move NW

IBT: Glimpse American scout moving in and out of the fog.

Turn 17 - 3150BC
Warrior1 explorer moves W.
Warrior2 moves NW

IBT: Glimpse American scout moving.

Turn 18 - 3100BC
Warrior1 NW
Warrior2 N

IBT: 2 American warriors heading toward our first Warrior

Turn 19 - 3050BC
Warrior1 retreats E
Warrior2 W

IBT: 2 American warriors continue their advance

Turn 20 - 3000BC
Warrior1 retreats E. There may be an opportunity to get the 2 American warriors to attack against a hill across a river.
Warrior2 climbs mountain and sees the other American warrior, on its way in.
Worker moves E
There are now dark blue borders to the NW. I fear that is not the Americans, but no one shows up in the diplomacy window yet.

I think I hit some bad luck on that set, losing the scout and not popping any techs or other useful items from the huts, so we'll see what y'all think. Critiques are most welcome.

Edit - apparently I need to learn how to attach bigger pics. I'll work on that next :p
 

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Turn 1: 4000 BC
I see lots of river and water to the east. I move the scout 1 SW to see what that reveals. 1 more move W puts him on the hill.
I see a small lake due west of the hill and some brown to the north of that -- could be plains, could be desert. Very hard to tell at this point.
Settler is standing on a grassland (FGS: 2/1/0), bordering on a river. This looks like as good a spot as any, and better than most. Moscow is founded, revealing desert and an oasis to the north..
Tech set to Iron Works at 90%, will have it in 40 turns. I would have set it to 100% if that had gained anything, but that was also 40 turns to IW.
Worker moved 1 SW onto BG, will begin building mine.
Look at CA2 -- I can move the citizen to work the forest. I lose a food, but gain a shield. I really want that warrior.

Moscow (20)
Warrior (4)
IW (40)

Turn 2: 3950BC
Worker begins mine.
Scout 1W onto next hill. I see gold and fresh water, but wasted a scout move. (Doh!)
Moscow (19)
Warrior (3)
IW (39)

Turn 3: 3900BC
My scout is now ringed by hills and swamp. He can move only 1 tile in any direction. Looking at the minimap, I choose south onto another hill. Still more fresh water, but not much else. We're not exactly at the polar caps in any direction, but I decide to explore away from the desert for now. I need to find some luxes, though. We won't be able to trade for them later.
Looking at Moscow, I discover that I can now move the citizen to work the BG due west of the city. That gets me growth in 9 (rather than 18), while still getting the warrior in 2.

Moscow (9)
Warrior (2)
IW (38)

Turn 4: 3850BC
Again, the scout is in hilly terrain, so I can only move 1 tile. I go 1 SE to get on the mountain that is 4 tiles due SW of Moscow. I see some game down by the water. It's a long way from Moscow, but a good location.
Moscow (8)
Warrior next turn w/ no overrun.

Turn 5: 3800BC
I don't need the warrior for MP, so I'm going to send him on some short-range recon. I don't want him so far that he can't protect Moscow, though. For now, though, I want him to wait until the scout has moved.
Scout jumps down from the mountain, 1 due S. . . I SEE A HITTITE WARRIOR!
Rename our Warrior to Warrior 001and send him 1 tile E. I see some hills and possibly some forest.
Set Moscow to build another warrior.
Go talk to the Hittites, with the following results: (1) no, they won't loan me any gold; (2) I can't trade him out of Alphabet; but he'll take bronze working for ceremonial burial. I consult the Civilopedia (CB gets us temples -- not great, but puts us on the path to monarchy) and CA2. CB is estimated to cost 53, while BW is estimated to cost 74. I haggle. He'll give me CB and all of his gold 10. Deal done, war declared.


Turn 6: 3750BC
Hittite warrior beelines for Scout 001, who bravely runs away, 1 NE, 1 E.
I count tiles. Hittite Warrior can be at Moscow in 5 turns. Warrior can get on this hill, and still be back in Moscow in 3.
W001 climbs the hill. I have found the Eastern Ocean. Sugar grows along the coast,
Moscow grows in 6
Warrior 002 will be built in 4. I could speed it up to 3, but don't. It would not increase the number of warriors that I could have by the time the Hittites could arrive.
Iron Working in 35

Turn 7: 3700BC
Scout 001 goes 1 E. I'd like to scout south, but I don't know where that Hittite is any more. The jungle, unfortunately, means that I only get 1 move.
Warrior 001 goes 1 W to head back to Moscow.

Moscow (6)
Warrior (3)
IW (34)

Turn 8: 3650BC
I notice that CA2 calls this turn 7 (?)
Worker finishes mine, begins road on BG 1 SW of Moscow.
Warrior 001 moves into Moscow. I'm going to fortify him on the worker as soon as I can. Soon, I'll have another worker in Moscow, and I can't afford the loss of my only worker.
Zoom to Moscow to check tile optimization.
Citizen currently working BG on River for 2 food, 1 shield, 1 gold. I can put him on the BG with the mine for 2 food, 1 shields, 0 gold. I want to examine this. Leaving the worker where he is gives me: (a) growth in 4; (b) warrior in 2; and (c) IW in 33. Moving over to the mined BG right now means: (a) growth in 4; (b) warrior in 2; and (c) IW in 43. Moving citizen to the forest (1/2/1) would give me: (1) growth in 8; (b) warrior in 2; and (c) IW in 33. Looks like I'm getting the warrior in 2 no matter what. With growth in 4 and IW in 33, the grassland due W of Moscow (on the river) is the best option.
Scout 001 moves 1 SE. I don't want to run into that Hittite, but my only other option at this point is to head back towards Moscow. I see spices in the jungle almost due S of Moscow. Unfortunately, they're quite a distance away.

Turn 9: 3600BC
First move: put the warrior on the worker. Moscow will build its warrior next turn, so it's (relatively) safe.
Scout 001 begins his trek back north by heading 2 E along the coast. There's tons more continent to explore, but I can't risk losing him right now. If there be goodie huts to the north, I need to pop them.
Check Moscow. Growth in 3, Warrior in 2 (no overrun).

Turn 10: 3550BC
Fortify Warrior 001 onto the worker for now.
Warrior 002 build and named, fortified in Moscow.
Check with Military Advisor -- "Compared to these guys, our military is weak!" I don't like the sounds of that, but I want another scout so as not to waste the Expansionist trait.
Scout 002 begun, will arrive in 5. I could have him in 4, but that sets IW back from 31t to 41t.
Scout 001 is on the coast, due SE of Moscow. Point him 2N, head for the fog.

Turn 11: 3500BC
Moscow's borders finally expand due to culture!
A lone Hittite Warrior spotted 2W, 1S from Moscow. He's a regular, but I've only got 2 Warriors myself. I'd have to send half our military to take him out. I consider the fact that he's in a swamp. I could send one warrior and put him on the hill right next to the Hittite, and try to kill the Hittite defending, but decide that prudence is the better part of valor right now.
Road finished -- zoom to Moscow before deciding next worker action. Growth in 1 and IW in 30, no matter where the citizen works (except the forest, which puts growth in 2). Put the citizen on the mined, roaded tile.
Worker moves 1 E of improved tile, W001 goes with him.
Scout 001 moves 1 NW to avoid losing a movement point on the hill to the N, and then 1 N. -- Sees more desert (oh, boy) and a hill.

Turn12: 3450BC
Moscow has grown to 2, and is producing 4/6/5 if grass due W of Moscow and our one improved tile are worked..
IW in 24 (Science still at 90%, and 100% still makes no difference in # of turns to IW).
Fortify Warrior 001 over worker.
Worker begins irrigation.
Scout 001 goes 1 N, spots a GH to the NW. Pops hut -- SETTLER!!!
Scout 002 completed next turn w/ no overrun.

Relative to Moscow, the new settler is positioned like this:

Sxx
xxx
xxx
xxx
xxM

This is farther than I want the next city to be from Moscow, so I begin assessing positions. I didn't really want him in the desert, but getting out of the desert takes at least two moves and would put the two at CxxxC. Alternatively, I could take two moves and make them:

Sxx
xxx
xxM

This would put the settler next to a forest and closer to known fresh water, so I opt for that. Settler 1 SW.

Turn13: 3400BC
Moscow builds Scout, whom I will unimaginatively call Scout 002.
Begin next warrior.
I'd like to begin thinking about settlers, but I'm 9 turns from growth and a settler is 8 turns out.
Scout 001 1 N and then 1 NE.
I spy a GH due NW of Moscow and send Scout 002 that way.
My treasury is at 19 and (-2 gpt), but I cannot generate more income at this point. I can either break even and get IW in 37 turns, or go to 70%, which means -1 gpt and get it in 28. Neither one is a good option, but I go for the latter. I'll have a second city soon, and can generate gpt from it. I'll have to monitor this closely. The warrior in 3 turns isn't going to help my treasury, either.

Turn 14: 3350BC
Scout 002 goes 1 N and 1 W to get to the GH -- 25 gold.
St. Petersburg founded. It wants to put the citizen on the oasis for 2F/1S/0G. I move citizen to the grass by the river for 2F/0S/1G -- that gives me growth in 10, a warrior in 10, IW in 22 and +2 gpt to the treasury. No immediate threats. The Hittite is just biding his time on the edge of my borders.
Scout 001 goes 1 NW, then 1 E.
Talking to my F1 Advisor, I can break even on the treasury and get IW in 16. Sounds good, so I do it.
CA2 tells me that the Hittites now have the Alphabet, Warrior Code and Masonry.

Turn 15: 3300BC
Scout 001 moves south up onto a hill. I know the coast is there, but I want to complete that part of my mapping. 1 S and 1 SE finishes the coasline NE of Moscow.
Scout 002 moves onto the mountain 1 due N and sees . . . (drum roll) . . . grapes! Nothing like a little wine to make our subjects happy, eh, comrades?

Moscow:
Growth (7)
Warrior (1) -- check for overruns CA2 says Moscow will overrun by 2 shields As it stands, my coins/beakers/smilies are 0/5/0. I don't need a clown; both of my citizens are content. Regardless of which citizen becomes a specialist, I stunt Moscow's growth for a turn. This is a very tough decision for me. Do I waste shields and continue to grow (food is currently at 6, consuming 4, for net +2 gain), or do I create a 1-turn specialist and avoid the waste? I go for the latter. I don't like wasting a turn of pop growth, but I don't want to just waste the shields, either. Next, the question is which specialist:

A) A tax collector gives me 2/4/0 coins/beakers/smilies.
B) A scientist gives me 0/7/0.

I take the scientist because my treasury, while low, is stable and I really, really want my iron on the map. Besides, (A) gives me 6 of something and (B) gives me 7 somethings.

St. Petersburg:
Growth (9)
Warrior(9)

Turn 16: 3250BC
Grass SE of Moscow irrigated, road begun.
Visit Moscow, switch geek back.
Warrior built in Moscow, unceremoniously named Warrior 003, which I'm sure stuns everyone.
The regular Hittite warrior is still standing outside my boundaries, but he's not getting any experience fighting barbs, he's not exploring and he's not attacking. He can wait.
Warrior 003 heads to St. Petersburg for MP duty.
Moscow will grow in 7 and I could build a settler in 8. I opt for a granary, to be completed in 15. Frankly, I don't know how this will work out in terms of finishing the granary before growth, but I'll just have to monitor.
Worker begins road.
Scout 002 goes 1 N onto the grapes and sees the edge of what I believe to be the Northern Sea.
Scout 001 heads 2 NW to begin to clear away the fog on the northern coastline.
Military advisor says our military is still weak.
IW in 13.

Turn 17: 3200BC
Scout 001 hears the howling of the wolves and goes 1 N. He can't head any further due N, so he goes 1 NW from there. Sees some very odd-looking forests.
Scout 002 goes 2 N and finishes all but one square of fog between Moscow and the Northern Sea.

Moscow (6) & Granary 14
St. Petersburg (7) & Warrior 7
Treasury 43 +0 gpt
IW 12

Note, I could get the warrior in St. Pete's in 4, but then I'd get IW in 14. I'd rather have Iron at this point.


Turn 18: 3150BC
2 more Hittites join the slacker on my western border. RUSSIANS, LOOK ALIVE! Now I'm grateful that I didn't switch St. Pete's over to a worker like I considered two turns back.
Scout 001 moves 1 W, clears last bit of fog in his area, but no more GHs.
Scout 002 goes 1W into the forest and sees more lovely desert.

Turn 19: 3100BC
Hittites move up onto a mountain.
Road completed.
Worker moves to 1 N of Moscow. Time to connect Moscow and St. Pete's.
Scout 001 moves 2 SW onto a hill.
Scout 002 moves 2 NW. Not much up here in these wastelands.
CA2: Hittites haven't learned anything new and have 27 gold.
Wake fortified Warrior 001 and put him in Moscow. Fortify him.

Turn 20: 3050BC
CA2 calls this Turn 19, so I'm going to play "just one more turn." (Now isn't that the story of my life?)
Move Worker 1 SE. If he's due N of Moscow, the Hittites can attack him without going through my warriors. Let's make 'em work for it.
Scout 001 goes 1 S, 1 W. Crossing known territory.
Scout 002 goes 1 NW and sees fish and what may be another continent (?!?). Moves 1 W.
Iron Working in 9 has to be shifted back to Iron Working in 11. That way, St. Pete's gets its warrior in 2.

Turn 21: 3000 B.C.
(CA2 calls this "Turn 20")
HITTITES ATTACK!
Warrior 001 kills Hittite warrior.
Warrior 002 kills Hittite warrior and is promoted to veteran. In grand ceremony, he is renamed Warrior v002!
Third Hittite warrior dulls his axe against our Russian warrior and unceremoniously dies. In my excitement over W002's promotion, I miss which one of ours killed him.
Military leader says I'm now allowed 8 units and I have only six.
He also says that, compared to the Hittites, our military is strong. Maybe I should send our veteran warrior out to find and destroy these ingrates, these Hittites who are should be so honored to share our soil? St Pete's will have a warrior in 1 with no overrun. I wake the warrior at St. Pete's and send him south to Moscow. The two at Moscow are healed, one regular, one vet. Let's go looking for some Hittites.
Scout 001 goes 1 W. This puts him on the grapes.
Scout 002 sees a blue border. Who are these interlopers who have so callously invaded our continent? Scout 002 goes 1 SW and still can't see who they are. After then moving 1 W, he still can't see the city. I cannot make contact this turn.
Worker begins road on tile 1 NE of Moscow.
Warriors 001 and v002 head south.
Visit St. Petersburg, MM citizen back to grass for research, warrior in 2.

Overview:
Moscow: Size 2, growth in 2, granary in 10.
St. Petersburg: Size 1, growth in 3, warrior in 2.
Treasury:43 +0 gpt
Tech: Iron Working in 9
Who we know: Hittites
What we know: Pottery, Bronze Working, Ceremonial Burial

Gold far to the west and the east.
Sugar to the east.
Wines to the north.
Spices to the south.

Here endeth Aabraxan's Chronicles of Conquering Cossacks, Part the First.

 
I think only Aabra had an option of settling. As I understood CBob's post, he popped a city not a settler so he didn't have a choice. CivActuary and I didn't get a settler so there wasn't any settlement. It seems Aabra chose to settle and get the value from the city rather than lose that value through movement. I don't think I would have made the same choice but I think there is some value to his reasoning. Taking all that time to move south would have been a tough decesion especially without an escort. It may have been worth it, but I don't think I could have done it.

I really felt the pressure and fear of AW. Time seemed short and every turn seemed like another step towards oblivion. Still, I think the desert build was a tad wasteful. I think I would have gone to the hill SSE of the grapes. I like a wider city spacing though and my though patterns could really be way off on this.
 
Just some analysis,

Military:

Phaedo
1 spear
1 Archer
1 Warrior
(all regulars)
1 worker
1 scout

CBob
5 warriors (reg)
2 workers
1 scout

CivActuary
2 warriors
1 spear
(all reg)
1 worker

Aabraxan
2 warriors (1 vet)
2 scouts
1 worker

Cities:
Phaedo (Moscow 3 grow in 10)Archer in 3
CBob (Moscow 2 grow in 10, Silly Pete's 2 grow in 15) Gran in 6, War in 5
CivA (Moscow 3 grow in 10) Settler in 2
Aabra (Moscow 2 grow in 2, St Pete's 1 grow in 3) Gran in 10, War in 2

Research:
Phaedo WC, IW in 25
CBob IW in ?
CivA IW in 8
Aabra IW in 9

CBob and Aabra had some luck with the huts but the biggest thing I see is just how big a difference CBob's worker build made. Moscow will be tough and a real producer with those three mines. The five warriors seem more valuable now than the extra scout too.

Looking at our position, I like the WC research as the first choice in this kind of game. We are going to be stuck with warriors for a while even if iron appears in our empire (it's going to take a while to get it roaded and we don't have an over abundance of workers). We could have had archers and be in a position to really have a strong attack force:sad: . No crying over spilt milk now though.

I'd say CBob's and CivA's games are best. The extra city in CBob's save gives it the upper hand in my opinion. The 5 warriors are pretty spread out and it would need to consolidate them to make an effective defence but that seems quite possible.

In the 4 turns that the Hitties will take to get to us, the sugar warrior can be back. I like the idea of fighting out in the open rather than letting them get to our borders. If we put the little warrior by the game on the mountain he should be pretty tough. We can have a couple of warriors on the hill waiting to pounce if the blue meanies move to the grass (although I'm betting they will go to the marsh). Regardless, we should be in a postion to defeat them.

We're going to want barracks but maybe Moscow should get on a settler after the grannary. We'll have a warrior and maybe even a spear for protection and settling where our warrior is standing next to the game is probably my choice for the next site.

I guess that's all I can think of for now:)
 
I explored more north than south for one very basic reason: fear. I did not want to meet another civ real early and figured that heading north would avoid the great unwashed masses of the other civs.

So right now we know that we have Hittites and Americans close by. Three of us meet the Blue-Greenies; one of us met the Light Blue Fly Boys.

The Hittites have two cities. Depending on the start, we might have two cities. One of the reasons I went for a granary was to make more settlers. And we have some good rivers to settle on, don't want to let them go to waste. I expect that somewhere we can make a settler factory, which will let us grow quickly. Even in AW, we have got to have cities to produce fighting units. I gambled that we would not meet anyone real soon or real close and then got lucky on the second city.

Only Aabraxan has had the honor of giving someone else the chance to die for their country (to mangle a famous war-time saying of George S Patton). Lucky. :D
When I met the enemy I ran away.

@Aabraxan: 4000 BC is considered Turn 0, not Turn 1. That is why you and CA2 differ. I just learned this in SGOTM11 where I had the first turns; hadn't paid attention to it before.

Oops. Cross posted with Phaedo.
 
Phaedo said:
Just some analysis
Thanks! I was just kicking myself for not having posted my end of turn stats.

We're going to want barracks but maybe Moscow should get on a settler after the grannary. We'll have a warrior and maybe even a spear for protection and settling where our warrior is standing next to the game is probably my choice for the next site.
We do need a barracks in Moscow (any game) but not right away. Especially with only one city, a barracks means we cannot build anything else for a while and we do need to worry some about crowd control and unruly neighbors. Just shooting from the hip (and not looking at any game) I would go with Moscow building granary -> settler -> warrior -> settler -> barracks. A lot would depend on Moscow's growth and production cycles. That is, once Moscow built a setter, how long it would take to back to that same size. We might be able to build a settler in 4 turns (30 shields), but if we drop from size 3 to 1, we haven't really done ourselves any good.

This is something we need to examine further regardless of the game start.

We do need more cities and that almost always means a granary somewhere early. Moscow has plenty of food and shields, it is early in the game and we have no immediate threats. Make it, use it and spread out along the rivers.

Right now warriors are cheap, cheaper than spears. One spear costs the same as two warriors. Two warriors defend the same as one spear but attack twice as much. We can make warriors faster than spears. So until we get Iron Working and have iron connected, warriors are the best offensive unit we have, a pretty good defensive unit (especially in stacks of two) and are very good for keeping the citizens happy and productive.

And I don't mind if the enemy units want to walk all the way to us. Let them. While they are walking we are making units for defense and offense. They walk up to us and we beat them down, on our turf, with superior numbers and then we take our units and walk back to them. We will withstand their first attacks; they will not withstand ours.

Which sounds good in theory, anyway. Reality may not be so kind.
 
Good sets all.

I think I tend to favor CBob's set. That extra city and extra worker make a big difference going forward. In retrospect, in my set I should not have wasted time with the spear. Plus in my set I would switch the build to a granery. More cities means more military.

One question for now:

I notice you all had worker actions of mine then road, while my actions were just the opposite. Is this just a personal preference or is this the generally preferred way to go?
 
Nice work, Phaedo. Being able to see the numbers lined up like that is really, really helpful for me. I sat down last night and read all of the turnlogs, but didn't have time to put the numbers together like that.

I think you're right that I was the only one who got the option to settle. You're also right about my reasoning on settling. I figured: better to settle than lose production and, potentially, the settler. The reason that I didn't move south of Moscow was fear. I knew that the Hittites were down there somewhere. I felt that a settler at this stage of the game was just too valuable to risk. As to where I placed the settler, well, I just don't know. At the time, I figured I could irrigate the desert, but right now I'm not even sure if that's true. (Sorry, guys, it's early.) I also didn't want to be too far from Moscow.

I think CivA had basically rotten luck in his goodie huts, but played very well. His Moscow will be the first to produce a settler, but that will also set it back to size 1. He's one turn in front of me on IW for the moment, but I don't know what will happen when he pops that settler and Moscow goes back to size one. He also did a much better job of clearing the fog than I did. Truth be told, I was not all that ambitious about clearing fog early in this game. That might have meant meeting more opponents before I was ready.

CommandoBob's was also good game. Five warriors . . . well, that just rocks! Most excellent work, CB! But his population growth is behind the rest. Like Phaedo, I could not tell where his research stands. And CB, thanks for the comments regarding my being the only one who let a Hittite die for his country. Let's not fool ourselves, though, my warriors bravely watched that Hittite from the safety of Moscow for 4 centuries. . . I would add, though, that this is what I meant when I said that AW is not the same as stupid. I don't have a problem with running from an enemy if it serves a purpose. Don't attack with an obviously inferior force. Heck, don't attack with an equal force if you can help it.

As to my own game, I was pretty happy with it. Unlike the first round that I posted in Phaedo's SG, my game was comparable. It was by no means the best game posted, but it wasn't so far behind as to be embarrassing. I think I was the only one who actually accomplished a trade. What did y'all think of the trade that I made with the Hittites? (CB + 10 gold for BW) Was that a good move or a foolish one? I think I made some worker mistakes though. I have a grassland next to the river that I've roaded and irrigated, but I won't work it until Moscow grows again. I know this because I kept comparing it to the mined/roaded BG and the forest and the grassland kept losing out. Once I get another citizen, Moscow might become a viable settler factory, but we'll have to see. I also note that my population growth is about 2 turns behind the others and this looks like a direct result of the decision I made in 4000 BC to go for shields rather than food.

It also looks like CBob and I were the only ones who never built a single spear.

I had hoped to pop WC from a goodie hut, but that didn't happen. Frankly, I think there are good arguments to be made for researching either IW or WC early on in this game. I stand by my decision to go for IW, but I certainly can't fault Phaedo for going to WC. In fact, he's the only one who has successfully researched a tech. He's got archers. I don't.

I agree w/ CB on the barracks issue. We may be at war, but we've still got expansion to take care of. We'll never be able to send out a settler alone, but we need to start pumping out settlers and escorts. Right now, the time that we'd invest in a barracks is better invested in a granary or more warriors, imo. We need a barracks, just not yet.

Edit: x-posted w/ CivActuary
 
CivActuary said:
One question for now:

I notice you all had worker actions of mine then road, while my actions were just the opposite. Is this just a personal preference or is this the generally preferred way to go?

For me, it depends on the situation. Here, I thought I needed the shields more than the extra commerce, so I went with mines. Where I need commerce, I'll set roads first.
 
Aabraxan said:
For me, it depends on the situation. Here, I thought I needed the shields more than the extra commerce, so I went with mines. Where I need commerce, I'll set roads first.
True. Probably why I ended up one turn in front of you for IW though, the commerce from the road. I agree the shield might have been better served though for more military in this situation though, I just defaulted to what I usually do.

I liked the trade you made. CB is a tech we will need to get to Monarchy, so it has value in trading for. And IMO, by the time we get to the point where we feel we are powerful enough to go attack some cities, I think the AIs will have spears anyway so I would not have held the trade up because I didn't want them to have spears.

Re: irrigating the grassland - would we be able to take advantage of this in despotism?
 
CivActuary said:
True. Probably why I ended up one turn in front of you for IW though, the commerce from the road.

I agree.

I agree the shield might have been better served though for more military in this situation though, I just defaulted to what I usually do.

Might have been. At the point where you've got to make that decision, though, it's very hard to know what's going to pay off.

I liked the trade you made. CB is a tech we will need to get to Monarchy, so it has value in trading for. And IMO, by the time we get to the point where we feel we are powerful enough to go attack some cities, I think the AIs will have spears anyway so I would not have held the trade up because I didn't want them to have spears.

That was part of my thinking, too. I figured that the AI would get spears soon enough, so why not get something out of them that helps us to monarchy, and some gold to boot?

Re: irrigating the grassland - would we be able to take advantage of this in despotism?

Probably not. That's one of the worker mistakes I made. I'm bad about forgetting the despo penalty. I get so focused on finishing a tile before moving on, I forget to assess whether or not the improvement will do me any good.
 
CivActuary said:
One question for now:

I notice you all had worker actions of mine then road, while my actions were just the opposite. Is this just a personal preference or is this the generally preferred way to go?
In the early game, when workers are few and turns are precious, I have learned to improve the tile first (mine or irrigate) and then road.

Improving first, then roading, lets you benefit from the improvement faster.

Roading and then mining a bonus grassland will take 10 turns (one to move onto the tile, three to road and six to mine) and will produce, at most, 1 extra shield (at the end of turn 10) for a total of 11 shields.

Mining first, and then roading this same tile will still take 10 turns. But it will produce 13 or 14 shields, not 11 as above. One turn to move, six turns to mine and three turns to road. But on the three turns of roading, the tile is now producing 2 shields, not one.

Keep in mind that you want to avoid two things in early worker turn management. First, you don't want to backtrack. The AI loves to backtrack workers, so never automate. Second, every tile your worker touches will be roaded. So improve first, get the bonus production, and then road.

In the later game, with a bunch of workers in stacks, sometimes it makes sense to road first and then improve. And when you need roads to connect (like to wine, for instance), you need roads to connect and improvements can wait.
 
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