CBob01 AWM Training Day Game

[Tribute]

This is good. I believe you have enough troops to break out of Rowdy Rostov and charge for Aleppo. If you can, wait for it to size 2 before capturing (unlikely since they'll whip spears/archers). But for Hattusha, you'll probably be able to capture that. For this game, I'd say building settlers is less important than capturing towns (normally I raze them to make the game harder, but this is monarch level, and you're slightly behind on AW progress)

No town/city is making the GLib; I see it nice that you are researching. I am surprised that nobody else has found you though. Trading would be nice.

As for the worker near Halifax, irrigate the plains. Of course, you'll have to go south of YakYak for that. (or waste the mine you just made).

 

[CommandoBob]

Norton's right - that whole thing about seeing fewer Hittites? Um, Not. MAJOR Hittite offensive operations underway, no chance for us to switch over to offense, I may have trouble even holding the line if this keeps up.

Nothing like being really, REALLY wrong to add a dose of humility to your personality.

They are bypassing RR and gunning for the interior. Halifax is under attack too and it may not hold either.

The AI loves weak and undefended cities, and MM and Halifax are probably the closest and weakest cities and that is why they get singled out for AI attention. Which can work in our favor.

A standard tactic is to leave an interior city undefended so that the AI will try to attack and capture it, ignoring other cities and units along the way. As the AI moves deeper into the territory, it gets attacked and destroyed.

We could almost do that with the Hittites and MM/YakYak, except for the river in the middle of Russia. I think we would end up trying to attack across the river to get the AI and we don't want that. Plus, we have too many other foes that would also try to move on those two cities and that is bad, too. So trying to bait the AI with an empty city is not a tactic to try right now.

We do need to begin to plan how to tackle the Hittites, even though I don't see attacking them for at least two turnsets. As CivActuary said, we need some offensive units in the north. I was thinking horses first and swords second. Horses because they can attack lonely AI units and then retreat after winning the battle. Swords because they hit harder than horses.

I think the next two turnsets will be more of the same; react to the AI (mostly defend) and build units. Attack when and where we can, but not have an offense as such; that is, no units moving outside our borders. By the end of the second turnset we should be able to at least begin to assemble the Hittite Attackers in Rowdy Rostov and begin taking the fight to the Hittites in the third turnset from now.

 

[Tribute]

@empty city strategy; rather unfair to the AI. You're taking advantage of something it shouldn't know about and react to but does. The detraction to this is that you can't use workers very well (many defenders on improvements). Enemy fast units would make this annoying were it not for the horsemen you're building. This will work, but it is not nice to the AI. Does it even stand a chance like this? Of course, you'd first have to have the space for an empty city..., which you don't.

 

[Norton II]

Sorry about the Babs GA again. Hopefully they won't pester you too much with their super archers. I was afraid their elite bowman would win attacking our city, and decided to take the tactical initiative and attack him first. Probably too rash on my part.

I'm not that worried about it; bowmen are slow and therefore easy to defend against. I might have attacked as well depending on the terrain the bowman was standing on.

Let's see....Tribute suggested an attack on Aleppo or Hattusha very soon, while CommandoBob thinks we should wait two more turnsets before going on the offensive. I think we need to move against them soon since they're already in the Middle Ages and may get iron somehow (they don't have it right now). If they do, we could be facing pikes and MDI in 20 turns. OTOH, I don't know if five horsemen will be enough to take Aleppo (which is on a hill), but they might be enough for Hattusha. I'm thinking we should split the difference: I'll get enough forces into position for an attack on the Hittites while staying on the defensive during my set, and then CommandoBob can take the war to the enemy. What does everyone else think?

 

[CommandoBob]

Tribute suggested an attack on Aleppo or Hattusha very soon, while CommandoBob thinks we should wait two more turnsets before going on the offensive.

I don't think we should wait; I think we'll have to wait while we reinforce the north and build up for the south. Ten swords and a couple of spears will take a while to build and gather together.

But yes, let's build our defense and make ready for offense.

 

[Tribute]

You may as well wait. If you plan to take hill towns (I didn't know Aleppo was one), elite spears (from walled town defense) should guard swordsmen and catapults as they take down such towns/cities. If you're comfortable with the amount of horses you have, they're good for taking out the loose archer/wounded 3MM if possible. Or if you've run out of catapults and want to injure a bowman....

 

[Norton II]

All right, then. I'll play tomorrow and prepare the offensive. I'll try to get 10 swords, a couple elite spears, and some cats ready. Hopefully, CommandoBob will be able to attack during his set.

 

[D'Artagnan59]

I am back now.

 

[CommandoBob]

Good to have you back, D'Artagnan59. I'll let you follow Norton II.

Revised Roster:

• Aabraxan
• Phaedo
• CivActuary - just played!
• Norton II - UP!
• D'Artagnan59 - on deck
• CommandoBob - warming up

 

[Norton II]

I am back now.

Welcome back!

Just finished my set; gotta leave for work soon, so I'll do a detailed write-up later tonight. Short version: We're still here, kill ratio was 22-8, a strike force of 5 swords, 5 cats, and 1 elite spear is ready in RR to move on Aleppo (I was wrong, BTW; it's not on a hill), and YarYar's under pressure from Germany and America--could be trouble. We now have Map Making, CB due in 4.

 

[Norton II]

First, the save: View attachment CBob01_190_BC.SAV
Objectives: gather forces for offensive against Hittites; hold all other fronts
Initial military strength:
4 workers
1 warrior
3 archers
12 spearmen
3 swordsmen
5 horsemen
3 catapults
Initial research status:
map making in 9 at 60% sci, +1 gpt
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Preflight (390bc):
horseman in RR attacks 3MC, dies, no damage (0-1)
next horseman attacks 3MC, takes 1 damage, wins (1-1)
cat from Halifax moves toward RR
next horseman attacks 3MC, redlined, wins (2-1)
sword in YarYar attacks German archer on wine hill, takes 1 damage, wins (3-1); reg spear in YarYar covers sword
worker stack moves to jungle 1W of Halifax; spear from RR and archer from Halifax join
IBT: German sword withdraws from YarYar; American settler pair moves N; 3MCs keep coming
Turn 1 (370bc):
workers start road, spear and archer fortify
spear and sword on wines fortify
horse attacks 3MC, redlined, wins (4-1)
cat from YarYar moves toward RR
sword in IH attacks American archer, takes no damage, wins (5-1)
IBT: MM sword->sword (3); IH spear->spear; German archers move to volcano; German sword fortifies; more Hittites!
Turn 2 (350bc):
sword from IH moves toward RR
sword on wine hill attacks German archer, takes no damage, wins (6-1)
cat in RR bombards 3MC, 1 damage
horse attacks 3MC, dies, 3MC redlined (6-2)
next horse attacks, redlined, wins (7-2)
spear in IH fortifies
sword from MM covers cat heading toward RR
IBT: Abe wants to talk--not happening; RR sword->sword (5); YakYak cat->cat (5); Hittite galley and more 3MCs show up; worker near MM finsihes road
Turn 3 (330bc):
cat in RR bombards 3MC, 1 damage
horse attacks 3MC, yellowlined, wins, promoted to elite! (8-2)
cat from YakYak moves toward RR
lone worker moves toward irrigated sugar NE of YakYak
IBT: German sword attacks sword on wine hill, dies, our sword redlined (9-2); Hittite archer disembarks from galley onto irrigated sugar NE of YakYak (our worker's not there yet); workers finish RR-Halifax road; YarYar rax->cat (10)
Turn 4 (310bc):
horse from Halifax attacks Hittite archer, retreats redlined, 1 damage to archer
3 cats bombard 3MCs, 2 3MCs yellowlined
sword in RR attacks 3MC, yellowlined, 3MC retreats redlined
horse attacks other 3MC, takes 1 damage, wins (10-2)
lone worker to YakYak, fortifies (waiting for archer to be gone)
worker stack starts moving toward wine hill; spear to Halifax
IBT: MM sword->sword (3); SSP cat->cat (5); IH spear->spear (3); RR riots! Hittite 3MCs must have forced citizens to move; German sword attacks elite spear, dies, 3 damage to spear (11-2); Hittite archer attacks spear in YakYak, dies, 2 damage to spear (12-2)
Turn 5 (290bc):
worker to sugar NE of YakYak, starts mine
3 cats in RR bombard 3mc, 3mc redlined
elite horse attacks 3mc, takes no damage, wins (13-2)
sword from MM to RR
move citizen in RR back to roaded tile, no riots next turn
archer to MM
cat from SSP toward RR
losing 5 gpt, so lower sci to 50%, map making in 4, -2 gpt
-----------------------------------------------------------
I'm getting kinda sleepy now, so I'll post the rest of the turnset late tomorrow morning. One thing: I was wrong about the kill ratio--it was actually 24-8.

 

[Norton II]

Here's the rest:

IBT: 2 German archers attack spear on wine hill, both die, spear promoted to vet (15-2); MM grows to 8, growth in 7, sword in 2; some 3mcs return to Hittite territory
Turn 6 (270bc):
move citizen in MM from forest to roaded grassland--no need to raise slider
move horse from RR toward YarYar, stops next to American archer which I stupidly forgot about
move sword S from YarYar toward American archer
IBT:
American archer kills horse, no damage (15-3)
4 (!) German swords appear on mountain next to wine hill
Halifax cat->cat (7)
MM and RR riot thanks to enemy units
Turn 7 (250bc):
lux to 30, sci to 40, map making in 3, +1 gpt
2 cats bombard 3mc, redlined
elite horse attacks 3mc, dies, 3mc promoted to vet! (15-4)
2 more cats bombard 3mc, redlined
sword attacks 3mc, takes no damage, wins, promoted to elite! (16-4)
sword attacks American archer, takes no damage, wins (17-4)
archer moves to support sword
cat in MM starts moving toward YarYar
cat in Halifax to RR
archer attacks 3mc, archer redlined, 3mc retreats
spearman withdraws from wine hill to YarYar; workers fortify in YarYar
IBT:
3mc kills archer (17-5)
IH spear->spear (3); YakYak cat->cat (5)
German swords move onto wine hill
Turn 8 (230bc):
workers move to desert tile next to SSP, will road (should have done that last turn)
cat from YakYak to YarYar
archer and sword toward YarYar
spear from IH to RR
5 cats bombard 3mcs, 2 3mcs redlined
elite sword attacks 3mc, takes no damage, wins (18-5)
elite warrior attacks 3mc, redlined, wins (19-5); I know that was a little risky, but there was a chance for an MGL, and if he lost, it was still just a warrior
horse from YakYak to YarYar
decide we need to replenish our mounted forces, so switch MM and RR to horses (that rhymes!) (1 turn in MM, 2 in RR)
IBT:
German swords attack YarYar, 2 win, 2 lose (21-7) (whew! there were only 3 spears there)
MM horse->horse (3)
American archer moves onto flood plain near YarYar
Turn 9 (210bc):
cat bombards American archer, 1 damage
horse from MM to YarYar
horse attacks archer, takes no damage, wins (20-7), goes to YarYar
workers road desert near SSP; can now move from SSP to YarYar in 1 turn
reg spear from SSP to YarYar
switch YarYar from cat to spear to take advantage of rax
move reg spear from YarYar onto mountain
IBT:
Ameican archer kills spear on mountain! (22-8)
map making done, CB in 4, can still get it in 4 with sci at 20%
SSP cat->cat (5); RR horse->horse (5)
Turn 10 (190bc):
horse attacks American archer, takes 1 damage, wins (23-8)
next horse attacks other American archer, takes no damage, wins (24-8)
2 more cats to YarYar
worker stack toward YakYak

Military strength:
4 workers
1 warrior
1 scout (forgot about him)
2 archers
12 spearmen
6 swordsmen
3 horsemen
8 catapults
City status:
Mosaic Moscow (8): growth in 3, horse in 2
Silly St. Petey's (3): zero growth, cat in 5
Iron Hill (6): growth in 3, spear in 1
Rowdy Rostov (6): growth in 3, horse in 5
YarYar (2): zero growth, spear in 2
Yakkity Yakutsk (4): growth in 9, cat in 2
Halifax (2): growth in 6, cat in 4
Research status: just learned map making, ceremonial burial in 4 at 20% sci, +11 gpt
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Not bad overall, I guess. I made one dumb mistake when I moved a horse right next to an American archer. As I stated before, we now have 5 swords, 5 cats, and an elite spear in RR; they should be sufficient to take either Aleppo or Hattusha, though both cities are size 1 with no border expansion, so maybe a settler would be good as well. YarYar's under siege by German and American forces, but it should hold out with a little luck; maybe we should move the elite spear in SSP to YarYar since that town's not threatened. Also, I had trouble with riots because of enemy units displacing citizens; from now on, it might be a good idea to raise the lux slider any time it looks like that's about to happen. No trouble from the Babs yet, but they do have 1 spear in our territory. Screenshots to follow.

 

[Tribute]

Of course, a screenshot would help those of us too lazy to download and look at the save.

@first part: Wonderful luck with horses vs 3 MC's. You really did only have about a 60% chance of winning (you used vets, right?), which is bad for AW, but good for that part.

@second part: I assume you got unlucky with the archer and were overwherlmed in a way by those 4 swords? (or was it 5 because the AI likes to keep one in reserve?).

5 swords and elite spear with those catapults. Stack of 6 with artillery should be enough to take even walled towns/cities. Too bad you're not the Greeks or that would be perfect (hoplite stacks don't get attacked).

And you do need to bring settlers along. Since you won't be able to capture (and you wouldn't want to anyways) those towns, it would be better to expand so that you'll get stronger and stuff. You know, the part where you can build more troops? The part where those troops get to take over the world? Bring along the settlers (and extra defenders).

Oh, and also, that scout? Think of anything evil you can do with it. That's all I'll be saying for now.

 

[Norton II]

Here's the situation around YarYar:

And here's what's going on near Rowdy Rostov:

@Tribute: Yeah, I was lucky with horses vs. 3mcs early on. When I got some cats together, luck wasn't as much of a factor (other than bad luck in losing a full-health elite horse to a redlined 3mc). As for losing the horse to the archer, that was carelessness on my part; I should have moved him manually instead of just pointing him to YarYar. Those 4 swords (the Germans didn't keep a reserve) almost overwhelmed YarYar's defenses, but thankfully, one spear survived. I concur with the advice about the settlers,but any city that replaces Aleppo will be under cultural pressure from Hattusas, so it'll be a good idea to keep most of our forces just outside such a city until we're ready to move again. I can also think of something evil to do with the scout; namely, pillage the Hittites' horses. But we'd better have some spears close behind so the horses will stay pillaged. Speaking of which, that Bab spear's one move away from being able to pillage our horses, so it might be good to send a unit or two to reinforce Halifax. Maybe a spear from RR, and the Halifax spear can move to the horses.

 

[CommandoBob]

Also, I had trouble with riots because of enemy units displacing citizens; from now on, it might be a good idea to raise the lux slider any time it looks like that's about to happen.

Why would displacing citizens cause a city to riot? I don't understand.

Enemy units would force the citizens to work another tile and would work a less productive space. I can't see that making the city riot.

YarYar's under siege by German and American forces, but it should hold out with a little luck; maybe we should move the elite spear in SSP to YarYar since that town's not threatened.

Not yet. If we move the eSpear to YarYar then SSP is empty and the AI will head to it and not YarYar. We could use an empty SSP as bait for the AI but we have nothing on hand to defeat the enemy units. And with 2 Cats, 2 Spears and a Sword in YarYar I think it will hold out this next turn. We could send the eSpear to YarYar from SSP and send the rSpear from YarYar to SSP, to slightly increase our chances of getting a Military Great Leader.

Rebuilding the YarYar-SSP road:

Of course, a screenshot would help those of us too lazy to download and look at the save.

I resemble that remark! I don't always have the time to look at the save, not on this PII 500MHz machine.

Aleppo
I think we need to begin to advance on Aleppo. I think we can do that now and keep what we take/raze.

I don't have the save open, but we have three large cites: MM (8), RR (6) and IH (6). And with Aleppo we will gain two more. Here's what I see:

We need to take or raze/resettle Aleppo because 1) it shortens our walk to the Hittite core, 2) it isolates Hattusha and 3) it makes Pink Dot easier to build. Remember Pink Dot, 1S and 2SE of Rowdy Rostov, on a grassland next to a river and Spices? With Pink Dot we get a luxury that will be contested for only a short time, unlike the wines in the north that the Germans like. And when Aleppo is in Russian hands, our workers are at less risk as they make roads to connect the spice and our new cities. With this 'safe' luxury, we can worry less about not having the YarYar vineyards connected. More luxuries = more happy/content citizens and less worry with the happy slider.

I would suggest (just from the screenshots) that MM and RR switch from horses to settlers and after the settlers make offensive units, while IH cranks out vSpears to defend our new cities.

Other thoughts and insights are welcome.

 

[Bucephalus]

Why would displacing citizens cause a city to riot? I don't understand.

Enemy units would force the citizens to work another tile and would work a less productive space. I can't see that making the city riot.

lurker's comment: I wondered about that; could it be that citizens were forced off of a productive tile, on to an unimproved one, thus lowering the individual city's financial contribution to happiness?

 

[Norton II]

Why would displacing citizens cause a city to riot? I don't understand.

Enemy units would force the citizens to work another tile and would work a less productive space. I can't see that making the city riot.

Bucephalus is right. The citizens had to move to lower-commerce tiles, so the cities produced fewer happy faces. Hence, riots, since I was running lux just enough to keep riots from breaking out before the citizens had to move.

Remember Pink Dot, 1S and 2SE of Rowdy Rostov, on a grassland next to a river and Spices?

I think Rowdy Rostov was actually Pink Dot, but I know the place you're talking about. We originally wanted to settle 1 NW of Aleppo, too, didn't we? We should raze Aleppo and settle there.

 

[CommandoBob]

Bucephalus is right. The citizens had to move to lower-commerce tiles, so the cities produced fewer happy faces. Hence, riots, since I was running lux just enough to keep riots from breaking out before the citizens had to move.

I hadn't noticed enemy units causing cities to riot before; it is something I'll have to be aware of in the future.

I think Rowdy Rostov was actually Pink Dot, but I know the place you're talking about. We originally wanted to settle 1 NW of Aleppo, too, didn't we? We should raze Aleppo and settle there.

If we capture Aleppo (unlikely at size 1) we should keep it and find another place for that settler. But most likely we will just destroy Aleppo, which will let us build on the hill 1NW of it, as you said.

 

[Tribute]

@scout pillage: That is correct! If you have a spear over a scout, you can have the scout pillage then move, and the spear will cover. It matters not if you are on a hill or mountain because the pillage is first. As long as that spearman has an archer underneath and is veteran, it is unlikely to be attacked unless swordsmen come along. But I think pillaging and worker scaring prevents that.

 

[Norton II]

If we capture Aleppo (unlikely at size 1) we should keep it and find another place for that settler. But most likely we will just destroy Aleppo, which will let us build on the hill 1NW of it, as you said.

Aleppo will most likely be autorazed since it's still size 1. It went up to 2 once during my set, but promptly went back down to 1 again. Even if it isn't, I'd rather raze it and found a new city on the hill nearby for extra defense; as I mentioned before, Aleppo is on grassland rather than hills as I originally thought. BTW, Hattusha never grew at all during my turnset; how much have the Hittites been whipping there?