CCM1 (epic mod)

[JSnider]

Note not playing on latest biq so may be fixed on that version ... also may be design intent.

Many of the ships (SOL etc) have an upg path listed but the upg box is not checked.
Zepplin .. same issue (and have the airport).
When get to build workers they cost no pop to build.
Can bypass Nationalism in tech tree and thus the 1900 inf units and go to WW1 era inf. Would have thought that some of the other techs prior would have depended on Nationalsim.
Money is not an issue ... pulling in 5000 a turn so buy things on 1st turn without wait. Amassed 150K+, using it to avoid wars and build industrial base.
CCM unable to be opened in Steph's editor (at least for me). Can open other biq no problem.
One result of limits may be constant wars .. everyone but me is at war with one or 3 other AIs. Egypt was the 1st to go (4 AIs ganged up on her). Of course I took out my nearest neighbore early so wouldn't be bothered by slavers et al.

Fun game so far, imported the rules onto an earth map and having a blast ...

 

[vmxa]

Note not playing on latest biq so may be fixed on that version ... also may be design intent.

That was intended.

 

[vmxa]

I think the the Monk and Great Artist needs to have a second thought. The culture is not a big deal for core towns. It is some what an issue on border towns, but it is huge deal on captured towns in their empire.

I suspect the AI will not bring along an Artist, but I will or fish for one just prior to the attack. This is what happened last night. I was moving my stack to their town and brought a lawyer.

I bombed a unit and hit it with the lawyer and got an artist. I captured the town and move in the artist. Next turn I culture bomb and get three levels of expansion.

Now they cannot attack my town in one turn and expose any attacker to my Zepplins.

I would say that at least the Monk needs to drop to 100 and Artist to no more than 200. Now you can be in Theo, but only get a two tier border pop from one Artist.

Not sure that is even a good idea. It is still a big help to the human. I would actually look at not having them do culture. Maybe they could give shields or cash.

Cash is not a big impact in this game as you have plenty, due to no maint and no 100% research early.

 

[Underpaid]

CCM unable to be opened in Steph's editor (at least for me). Can open other biq no problem.

Maybe CCM.biq is compressed? Seeing as Steph's editor can't open compressed .biq's, not being able to open compressed .biq's is probably the most common complaint about Steph's editor.

 

[JSnider]

latest versions of stephs editor open compressed .. but is possible might still be issue, so i'll save uncompressed and try it.

 

[tom2050]

Anyone else noticed AI very weak in late 1st era/2nd era because of no workers?

I checked status again, as I just entered 2nd era on Emperor, and I am ranked 2nd place, I am strong compared to every civ on the map, and I am doing nothing special to get this.

There are barricades all over the place, but no workers except for perhaps a scant few. AI is on average 4-8 techs ahead of me, yet they are weak and still have SPEARMAN (some have Pikeman). Why? Because as they found new cities, there are no workers to build roads to them, or enhance the terrain. All workers have turned into garrisons, which do no good for AI when they can't build their latest units which require resources (no roads to outer cities).

Perhaps there is a way to have a buildable 2nd worker for all civ's, which becomes available at Garrisons, which has worker rate of 25 (something low), so at least the AI will still have something to build it's garrisons with; before using up all it's good workers.

Netherlands Terrain, just conquered by me. Only terrain improvements in Capitol, most every other city is barren except for a road. This is mid 2nd era, this was all of Dutch land I took. AI had no workers when I went in, only garrisons and few troops. Most all AI Civ's is like this.


My Terrain, terrain improvements galore... because human doesn't waste all of it's workers on garrisons immediately. I will place a garrison if the need arises, other than that, work away workers!


Tom

 

[Civinator]

I cannot trade for Maps. The pedia says Nav is needed. I can make a trade for lux and techs, but no option for maps?

I see no flags are enabled for Nav, so no map trading.

Some cut out features in CCM:

To accelerate gamespeed for AI turns in era 3 and 4 the following features of standard Civ 3 are not in CCM:

1. Map Trading: This feature in my eyes was really annoying in later phases of the game with 20 or more remaining civs, as every few seconds one of the civs wanted to trade maps that were not longer interesting and the calculation time for these useless map tradings was in vain. Additionally the human player had to deal with lot of unnecessairy popup-windows for AI map trading.

In my eyes it is much more fun to discover the world as it historically was and the fact that the big map isn´t revealed too early also helps to reduce AI turntimes.

2. Communication Trading: With the cut out of communication trading, exploring of the seas becomes much more worthy in gameplay. It is not enough to send out only one or two ships in era 2 to have early contact to nearly the whole world. Additionally if you would have the complete contact to 20 or more civs too early, the techtree would become too unbalanced by tech mass trading with too many civs and AI turntimes would slow down as in too rapidly revealed maps too many civs would still exist.

3. Building upkeeping-costs: The computer uses a greater amount of calculating power each turn, if the civs can pay the upkeeping costs for their buildings. These calculations were thrown out to gain game speed for the large maps.

This is one of the reasons that there is much more money available in CCM than you normally are used to. Until lately this money was needed for spy missions.

4. Shortly before the start of the CCM public betatest I also threw out the spy missions to gain additional gamespeed for the later AI turns. So now in CCM all the missions can be done by diplomacy. There are no more spy missions, what means you can only do these actions to civs that have peace with you.

Now with taking out the spy missions, there is too much money left for the human player. May be I will rise the unit upkeeping costs in the next biq to draw some money away form the players.

5 No sea- and oceantrading: This takes away calculation power for a lot of tiles in CCM. On the other side the civs always have direct trade contact from capital to capital as the palace has the airtrade-flag (and therefore in this way works like an airport you are used to in normal civ).

Additionally this means, that ships with the flag “can sink in sea or ocean tiles” are endangered during the whole game. In CCM there is no discovering of all seas of the world with tiremes or galleys that can safely pass all oceans when the proper techs are discovered. In CCM you need better ships to explore the seas.

 

[Civinator]

I had a bug with a real furious leader:
Took a while to figure out the other lines were there, they were just invisible.

Does this mean the missing texts are still there, but they can´t be seen?
This is no feature that was intended by me. If these texts are there, but invisible, this is a discovery by error.

 

[Civinator]

ship of the line will not upgrade to steam frigate in town with harbor. The town can build Stream Frigates.

My Frigate will not upgrade and now I am not able to upgrade Frigate/Ship of Line nor Steam Frigates to Ironclad. Again the towns can build Ironclads and the Editor says they can be upgraded.

When I made the first settings for CCM it was my intention that ships of era2 or more moderne shouldn´t be able to upgrade. I set a "halfed" upgrading path, so they simply dissapear from the building chain of a city, when a certain tech is discovered (we still had that discussion with the caravel).

But in later phases of the game the AI tended to still use some of these obsolete ships. So now I set real working "full" individuel upgrading paths for these ships so they can be upgraded to ships of later level (but mostly not the next level). This will be a work for the next weekend.

Zepplins can upgrade (it says) to a biplane bomber, but I think you need an airport. Airports come much later in the tree. There are two more plane techs prior to getting to airports.

Not sure what is the best way to handle it. I tend to not make airports nor upgrade planes, so I did not think of it as I was deciding to build Zepplins. I probably would have made some anyway, just not as many.

Zeppelins only should dissapear from the buildup queue, when the proper tech is researched.

 

[Civinator]

AI builds Garrison's with ALL of it's workers
I think that once the Garrison's became available, suddenly they are built all over the place... and the AI uses all of it's precious and few workers building those things, thus crippling itself probably for a very long time during mid-game.

This is a very important point in my eyes. The garrisons were one of the last features added to CCM and I have the same impression: This feature works too well for the AI. May be I have to push garrisons away from the tech Construction to a tech in era 2, when the infrastructure of the civs is better developed.

 

[vmxa]

Anyone else noticed AI very weak in late 1st era/2nd era because of no workers?

I think you could say that about C3C without a mod, except they do not make garrison immediately, but do make to many barrier types. Not sure giving them more workers would help, unless it was a significant number.

It may help to not require the worker die to built anything.

 

[vmxa]

"Map Trading

Fine, just change the pedia to reflect that.

"Communication Trading"
Fine as long as we know.

"spy missions"

No problem with as long as I know. I would not worry about the money. In fact one of things I mentioned in the AoI type mods, is the silliness of spies. The AI would spend to steal my map or my plans. No reason for it to do that as it already knows where everything is located.

Well maybe the map, now this was done at the stage where the map was know to all or nearly all.

"No sea- and oceantrading"

fine with me.

Thanks for the heads up, you may want to add this little titbit to your page one stuff.

 

[Civinator]

I think the the Monk and Great Artist needs to have a second thought. The culture is not a big deal for core towns. It is some what an issue on border towns, but it is huge deal on captured towns in their empire.

I agree with you.

I suspect the AI will not bring along an Artist.

The AI uses Great Artists.

I would say that at least the Monk needs to drop to 100 and Artist to no more than 200. Now you can be in Theo, but only get a two tier border pop from one Artist.

Yes, this can be a good suggestion. I will try it in the next biq.

Maybe they could give shields or cash.

No, the AI can´t handle units that give shields. For units that give cash, CCM still has the supply shipments.

 

[Civinator]

Thanks for the heads up, you may want to add this little titbit to your page one stuff.

Every post and suggestion of every civer here is on my list, even if at present I don´t have the time to answer to all immediately. Thank you all for your help and interest in CCM.

 

[vmxa]

Zeppelins only should dissapear from the buildup queue, when the proper tech is researched.

What does this mean? Does it mean they will not upgrade? Again I am fine either way. I only want to know one way or the other, so I can decide what value to place on them. I only need the pedia to show and update path, if it can be done.

If no upgrade and it does not say it can, I am happy. It is only when it says it can upgrade and it cannot, that is a gotcha.

 

[vmxa]

Every post and suggestion of every civer here is on my list, even if at present I don´t have the time to answer to all immediately. Thank you all for your help and interest in CCM.

It is I that should be thanking you for your work and the entertainment it is giving me. A few glitches do not detract that much, that is why beta exist. Now some Homm3 maps I tried were real glitches, this is quite excellent at this stage.

 

[Civinator]

What does this mean? Does it mean they will not upgrade? If no upgrade and it does not say it can, I am happy. It is only when it says it can upgrade and it cannot, that is a gotcha.

Yes, Zeppelins don´t upgrade, they only dissapear from the building queue.

The Civilopedia needs a lot of additional work and with the next update (hopefully coming next weekend) there will only be fixed some more parts of it. As more you report, the easier I can find the parts of the civiliopedia that are needing work first.

 

[puwen]

Does this mean the missing texts are still there, but they can´t be seen?
This is no feature that was intended by me. If these texts are there, but invisible, this is a discovery by error.

Yea, I was about to go to war with Hammurabi but wanted to cancel my RoP treaty first to not get a rephit. As shown I had no option to make deals. Tried abit spying to get him to declare war.... he just was unhappy didnt dare declare war. Finding out I could get in to the tradescreen was just some clicking of frustration where the line should have been (just above "We grow.....")

Anyhow, Im so happy about this mod, Its realy got me back into playing civ again. Im playing so much Ive not even had time doing chores, so thinking of hiring a cleaningmaid, can I send the bill for her to you?

 

[vmxa]

The AI uses Great Artists.

In what way do they use them? I am sure they use them, in that they add them into their towns. Maybe even with an eye to doing something useful.

This is just window dressing in terms of winning. It does not matter how much culture you have in the main. What is the most powerful strategic use for them?

I am not sure I have the answer, with so little experience with the mod, but I submit a very strong use would be to bomb a newly capture town.

This is much better than just pushing the borders in a town that you just build on the border of your land. Yes that does relieve culture presure, but I am not concerned about that a great deal.

What is the most they can do with culture to that new town? They can flip it. They are next door to me, so I am goiing to be at war with them till they are either gone or off my landmass.

I may or may not be Always at War with them, but I will most likely stay at war once it starts, till they are not adjacent to my empire.

I may not even take it back right away, but it will come back into the fold at some point. So not a big deal, if they flip it.

Now compare the use to attempt to stave off a flip of a semi useless town to preventing an immediate counter attack on a newly captured town in someone elses land.

This is going to be more valueable to me. I keep my beach head for a time. I get a chance to heal, before they assualt. I get time to get more units on the scene.

I doubt I will see them do that on purpose. They may have it occur, by accident. That is they may get an artist during a conflict on the site of a newly captured town an duse it then.

Probably not against a human, as they are going to attempt to prevent invisible units from doing anything.

 

[tom2050]

Pedia does not say that a Missionary can detect invisible units (for the Missionary PRTO page), although I thought I read it somewhere else. I suddenly realized they could when I found an enslaver with one and dispatched him.

When I took a Dutch town, it flipped, and when I retook it I got a Monk, so I made sure I added culture so it wouldn't flip again so easily. I find them good in this regard.

EDIT; Question: What does 50% Luxury Tax do? Does it only increase the money you bring in on tiles that have a luxury on them (if they are worked squares)? The Town Center does this. I don't think any buildings in C3C used this option.

Tom