CCM1 (epic mod)

[Civinator]

Changing governments:

It may be true that the gran/hosp will help recover, but losing 4 per city could be painful. At 24 cities, that is 96 citizens prodcution/research gone in one swoop.

On the other side vmxa, there can be situations, where you need the additional percentage of research power that is offered by other governments to reach certain great wonders before other civs have discovered the techs to build them.

But you are right, that there must be a plus in research after changing to the other government and not a minus due to population loss (even if the other government has a higher research rate). The temporary loss in production is intended.

 

[Civinator]

Idea: Monks, regardless of origin, can upgrade to prophets or missionaries.

mythusmage, that´s an interesting idea. I will reflect about it. If I should do this setting, the upgrade costs must be very high to stop a flood of holy men (what would be contraproductive).

 

[Civinator]

Pedia index has two entries for Communism.

Yes, one for the tech and one for the government.

I was looking for the symbol that looks like a crown next some towns. I did not find it, but saw the double entry.

This symbol is the wall graphic for cities in era 3 and 4. Here common city walls have no more use. The symbol should show that this is a "fortress city" (or "fortified city").

 

[vmxa]

Not only is it not going to happen (trade communication) but it shouldn't. If you cannot see that you can get units there, you need an imagination fix. I know it sound silly but I have a warrior unit in the third era sitting on mountain. Why? Because he keeps the Barbs from popping up! If I had wanted Mongols to continually send troops to kill barbs I would have disbanded him. Land an Elite lawyer and go contact Nubia!

Really, I was unaware that you are in control of the mod. Possibly you are having difficulty understanding what is being said. I have no problem figuring out how to reach them for contact.

In any event, why are you so strident? I am merely expression my perspective and unlike your response, I gave some cogent reasons.

 

[tom2050]

Well, my current game as Italy is going to come to a close.

Here is a breakdown on things in the game:

Difficulty is not difficult enough: Playing on Emperor was vastly too easy. Difficulty seems it needs to be up'd alot in some ways.

I am still in 2nd era. I am researching Imperialism, and have about 5 other tech's to get before 3rd era. I now get a tech every 5 or 6 turns (after going on a massive literacy building program).

My World Ranking on average is Double every other civ. I have 2244 and am Ranked #1, Closest is Mongol ranked 1603, but they cannot stand a chance. I have not built a unit in the last 60-70 turns, and when I went to war with Mongol I pumped out about 30 Cavalry in 8 turns, thus decimating their forces.

I am ranked 1 in everything except for Literacy, Life Expectancy, and Military Service.

AI tech research/Wonder building is excellent: Now, the catch is: I have not been able to complete one Wonder through the whole game. Not a single one. I am also still waaay behind in tech to most other powerful civ's. I don't see myself ever being able to complete a Wonder for the rest of the game. The weaker and smaller ones I am ahead of by a tech or 2. AI seems good tech-wise to me.

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AI builds ALOT of longbowmen (too many), they get slaughtered easily. AI also loses artillery extremely easily, and since it is offensive unit, they don't often defend them when attacking; but their slow speed and low defense makes them extremely easy targets. AI built LOTS of ships on huge Pangea map (I mean alot!).. This is always a good thing. I had some big problems with this, since I neglected my own navy (AI bombarding my coastal towns like crazy, and not much I could do about it! since my navy was so weak )
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I have been solely building for most 2nd age, but if I did solely build military, no one could possibly stand a chance. And I was still strong to everyone even after I built no units for 60+ turns straight.

Weak Defenders: Defending units are WAY too weak compared to offensive units. With 2 move offensive units having a high chance of retreat, and 1 move defenders with defense usually lower than attack units, the chance of a defender actually winning a battle is extremely low.

I mean, Cavalry vs. Musketmen is so far way in the attackers favor. 15% chance Musketmen defender wins, 85% chance Cavalry offensive unit wins/retreats (That is with normal retreat odds, with them up'd as they are here, the defender more likely has under 10% chance of winning).

Even with Castle, fortifed, on hill, etc... defender win is still only around 35% or so (but with increased retreat odds, it is much lower than this; probably 25% or so). This is also way in human players favor.

Therefore, I built no Musketmen, and defended with Cavalry... because it is a fast unit also, it has tremendously better defensive ability, even with defense 4 instead of musketmen's 5. Since other fast units cannot retreat, the normal odds of Cavalry vs. Cavalry is 24% chance defender wins (no fortified, on open ground) compared to around 10% with Musketmen. And with Castle, fortied, on hill is 60% chance win compared to around 25% with musketmen. <--- this is huge, and makes most 1 move defenders not worth building at all through era 1 and 2 (except for early spearman).

All in all, fascinating mod... I'll try a game on tougher difficulty level.

Tom

 

[ThERat]

Interesting findings, Tom. I agree with the attacker versus defender advantage.

I have no trouble to get wonders on emperor though. You got to plan ahead a little but the lack of a palace will hurt on higher levels though you can use small wonders a little for that.

How did you win your game as I can't seem to find that.

 

[tom2050]

Interesting findings, Tom. I agree with the attacker versus defender advantage.

I have no trouble to get wonders on emperor though. You got to plan ahead a little but the lack of a palace will hurt on higher levels though you can use small wonders a little for that.

How did you win your game as I can't seem to find that.

I didn't officially win... I usually never finish a game if I get too far ahead. I'll try a game on Deity and see how that goes!

Having a less amount of workers makes Plains much to be desired, since irrigation can be done quicker than building mines, and brings in the same as grassland (except for Bonus grass squares).

Tom

 

[Civinator]

tom2050, thank you very much for your reports.

So the settings for the AI defense must be strengthened. There are several ways to achieve this. P.e. I could rise the defence of walls and city-size and also rise the production costs for mounted units instead of enlarging the defence value of 1-MV-units.

In some days the next CCM update will come, so these remarks are very precious and may be you start your next game with the new biq and fixes.

tom2050, if you should have some capacity for recouloring units, could you give the Egyptian settler and worker (made by Plotinus) included in the CCM mainfile an Egyptian bronce-brown skin? At present they all have a black (Nubian) skin. I asked Plotinus some time ago if he could give these units such a colour, but he didn´t have the time for it (what I can really understand).

 

[Moosezilla]

@ vmxa; Sorry I gave you the impression I am "in control" but I like to think that some unique features are a sure thing and can be expected to continue. Yes you can figure a way. And it could be fun, give it a try. But, in retrospect I see that AI may need contact trade more than the player. Of course then it wouldn't need as much "cheating". Now as the only player w/contact w/both continents I have tech sales that can diminish on two scales. When they get contact I will lose this to one scale. As for my cogency I used to have a quote or three below: "I don't know nottin'!" and "I love it when a plan comes together!" and "No plan survives contact with the enemy."

 

[vmxa]

Moosezilla no problem, we are all just trying to contribute a little to see it get better.

Tom I also find the defense numbers a bit low. T34-76 has 7 and T34-85 has 6. I had three LB in a row kill T34 tanks. Russian Infantry only have 9 defense. They are the second army unit after Rifles.

One of the mobile artillery you can get as Russia from a small wonder has like 13 and another has 14. Those are the best numbers I have seen so far and I am in the last age.

With many attack values in the teens for some time and no defenders able to match that, the best defense is to attack first.

Cininator, I have not evaluated the walls worth, but they would matter little to me as I am not ot letting them attack my towns. Now if this was an AW game, that would be different. So I would not want to see an attempt to boost defense via walls or any town improvements as the sole means.

Well you could have something like civil defense boost in the late third age as that would be expensive to build as it is in C3C. Really what is needed is that some defensive units be available that are on par with that eras attackers. Not long after those attackers come online.

In C3C you get rifles, which are decent against all units to that point. Soon you get Infantry, which are more than a match for all attackers till the next age. Yes a tank can kill an infantry, but you run a risk attacking them in cities and metros.

 

[Takeo]

CCM unable to be opened in Steph's editor (at least for me). Can open other biq no problem.

I opened CCM in normal editor, saved and then left that editor open. Steph's editor was able to open it then.

 

[Civinator]

I opened CCM in normal editor, saved and then left that editor open. Steph's editor was able to open it then.

CCM was done with C3C editor version 1.00.

 

[JSnider]

Takeo .. thanx, I like to open all in stephs for the bettr view of what is there shall we say.

In the game (opinion) it seems that later ships are woefully slow. Probably intentional but with BB/freighters takes forever to get some place. Would recommend either increasing move rate or make 'all terrain as road'. I know it is probably intentional, but for me starts to detract in the later stages of the game (3rd era on).

Later infantry (3rd age great war) seem underpowered vs cavalry (hussar etc). Get killed almost every time in game playing. Would think defense would be a tad better with rifles they have.

Tech wise I am ahead in the game but only by a couple items. Once AI and player get a certain number of cities does not take much to get a tech every 4 turns. Might consider increasing the cost of techs ... we are in the 17000s and I and about 4 AIs are closing in on the end of era 3.

 

[vmxa]

I was unable to upgrade the Yak to Mig-15, thought I had an airport and the town could build Mig's. One other thing I just noticed, that is strange. In none of my towns do I see any strategic resources in the upper left corner.

I do see the lux though. I thought that I remember seeing them in each towns "box" as long as they were connected. It could be my interface as I am using the Metallic interface. I had not been using that for some time, so I cannot say if that was how it worked and I do not have any none CCM saves.

 

[vmxa]

In the game (opinion) it seems that later ships are woefully slow. Probably intentional but with BB/freighters takes forever to get some place. Would recommend either increasing move rate or make 'all terrain as road'. I know it is probably intentional, but for me starts to detract in the later stages of the game (3rd era on).

I am not sure what the plan was, but I can tell you that I played a lot of 250x250 maps. Most were in SG's with the movement of ships increased. I found that was not needed.

Yes, it takes longer to travel long distance over water, it should. In my own 250 or larger maps, I do not increase ship movement. I do not want to see someone go from one end to the other in just a few turns via boats.

This is especially true for a Sid island game as when I ping a frigate, I do not want it to be able to fly home and return in super speed mode.

Firaxis did not up the movement as you went from one map size to another, for a reason.

 

[Civinator]

I was unable to upgrade the Yak to Mig-15, thought I had an airport and the town could build Mig's.

Here a hook in the upgrading setting was forgotten. It will be fixed with the next biq. Thank you for the report.

 

[Civinator]

In the game (opinion) it seems that later ships are woefully slow. Probably intentional but with BB/freighters takes forever to get some place. Would recommend either increasing move rate or make 'all terrain as road'. I know it is probably intentional, but for me starts to detract in the later stages of the game (3rd era on).

Transports in CCM are as fast as in standard C3C. They have 6 MV points. But you have to leave coastal waters to get this speed. In coastal waters they can do only 3 MV due to shallow waters, riffs and so on (tougher navigation). There are only some ships in era 3 and 4 that can navigate in coastal waters with full speed, amongst them destroyers, torpedoboats and paddle wheelers.

Please read the passage for the CCM Movement Concepts in the CCM Information Sector.

Later infantry (3rd age great war) seem underpowered vs cavalry (hussar etc). Get killed almost every time in game playing. Would think defense would be a tad better with rifles they have.

All foot units (1 MV) up from musketeer get +1 A and + 1 D with the next version of the CCM biq. Cavalry, Geramn cavalry, mounties and so get -1 D with the next biq.

Tech wise I am ahead in the game but only by a couple items. Once AI and player get a certain number of cities does not take much to get a tech every 4 turns. Might consider increasing the cost of techs ... we are in the 17000s and I and about 4 AIs are closing in on the end of era 3.

Yes, but these settings won´t come with the next biq as here some experiences are needed, what would be a good setting for tech costs in the second half of era 2, era 3 and 4.

 

[Civinator]

This could be the information in the civilopedia techs about buildings going obsolete with the research of a certain tech. Is that information in the screenshot correct English or do you have a suggestion for a better formulation?

 

[vmxa]

Just an FYI to further support defense issues. Landed 48 units on a backward Incan island. These were mainly T54, P76 and T34. I took only one loss on offense, to a musket. On the IBT I lost a number of tanks to invisible units and one to a LB, again.

It would not be too bad, except these were mainly Enslavers and Priest, not even Lawyers. So it is atttack 2 and attack 3, killing tanks. The attacks were in the field, so I had no Lawyers to see what they were, but I brought up one for the next turn and saw a stack of about 10 of them.

Some of this is the crapping combat design, rng, that lets far inferior units win battles. Still tanks should not have a defense value of 6, they are to large of an investment for that. The engine should have been designed so that attack 2 does wins any battles against defense 6 and 7, let alone more than half of them.

I do not recall any archers killing rifles in C3C, let alone even better defenders. Civinator this is not your fault. Taketwo was going to correct the rng issue during 1.22, but ran out of time and money and pulled the plug.

 

[vmxa]

This could be the information in the civilopedia techs about buildings going obsolete with the research of a certain tech. Is that information in the screenshot correct English or do you have a suggestion for a better formulation?

Looks fine to me, you do not even have to specifiy that it is a great wonder. Just Stonehedge is made obsolete.