CCM1 (epic mod)

[vmxa]

I suspect that there are too many religious communities, as long as one empire can have no limit. IOW as I capture empires, I add may add a new religion and its temple and cathedhral.

I now have 6 of these in all my continenial towns, if I want them. Maybe restricting them a bit would be good. Only one or maybe one disallows a particular one. So you only get half of them. Maybe restricts two, so you even fewer, but more than one.

 

[vmxa]

FYI the Tow shows up with the name Ruler.

 

[Civinator]

I want to suggest that Airports or in fact any automatically built structure should not cause unhappiness. The reason is I cannot get rid of the free airport. It is either take the hit or not build the wonder.


QUOTE=vmxa;8904916]I suspect that there are too many religious communities, as long as one empire can have no limit. IOW as I capture empires, I add may add a new religion and its temple and cathedhral. I now have 6 of these in all my continenial towns, if I want them. Maybe restricting them a bit would be good.

Every building that can cause unhappiness is needed to balance the religious happiness buildings. It´s true that you can´t get rid of the big airlift wonder. On the other hand there are enough means to outbalance this effect. May be if there are some buildings left after the balance of the CCM governments, I could do a special airport for this GW without pollution. We´ll see.

FYI the Tow shows up with the name Ruler.

This is the namebug when one ruler unit upgrades to another. I have to fix that. Thank you for reporting it.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Looks extremely promising


Now help a poor late-comer:
Why no armies? For balance reasons, or because the AI doesn't fill them? The later could be solved easily with capacity=1, and +10HP, and the AI will use them adequately (but you know this already, I'd guess).
Why is the Palace a Small Wonder? I agree completely on the 'no prebuild' issue, but as a side effect - you cannot move the Palace. Unless you abandon the capital, of course. The same intended effect could be achieved by very low shield costs as well.
(see Plotinus 'Rood and Dragon' for both concepts at work).

Some more random comments:
Weak defenders: Isn't that a side effect from the lack of Barracks, at foremost? For the AI, a defender in garrison is a defender, whether is has DEF=1 or 100.
Culture bombs: The AI should use that effect almost as effective as the human. In RaR, Slaves could always be sacrificed, and since the AI gains both Slaves and Artists when it attacks a city => they're in the right place at the right time
Slavers at al.: Really, we've been through that issue in the RaR testing. IMHO there simply is no working solution for Hidden Nationality land units....The AI keeps throwing them at cities, and the human at Workers.
At least, they cannot be built in CCM. The AI would go insane otherwise

 

[vmxa]

There are a number of happy structures and a number of unhappy ones. My point is that you may not wish to build all of them in every town. If you have a town that is limited in food and is say size 4 and maxed out.

Now you do not have the capacity or maybe the desire to build all of them. However you build the wonder that makes a free airport. Bam you now have -2 for happy. You have to take some action or take the hit.

In the main I oppose any arbitrary imposing of structures that I cannot sell off, unless it has no real impact. Free barracks, no negative impact as it cost me nothing in gold, nor any unhappiness or corruption.

Free structures with built in unhappiness and I cannot get rid of it is troublesome. Not catistrophic, but troubling.

 

[tom2050]

I remember it being mentioned there was a lack of a barracks type structures in the game?

BUT, As Italy/Rome, there are barracks galore..! In fact many cities have multiple barracks. I could build the Roman Fort, many small wonders provide barracks, the despotism barracks, the one that comes with Monarchy, Royal Garrison (cant' remember the name). It's almost impossible to not have barracks around.

Granted, some go obsolete here and there.

Tom

 

[vmxa]

You will lose nearly all of them later. At least that is whatI saw playing as Russia. One of the techs or wonder or something and all those rax I got were gone. I think I ended up with about 6. Several of them fromlater wonders, after the one I had flushed.

 

[vmxa]

I finally finished Civinator, very drained. No great AAR or insight. Just that I had about 43-44% of the world and still had three nations left on my continent. Two islands left with a nation each and another massive continent with probably 12-14 nations.

I had about 110 towns and 500+ units, but still it was slow going, due to rough terrain and lack of workers on my part and the AI. That and no armies.

I had 3 rail gangs on my land and one on the island. Maybe 15-20 other workers, making roads. Maybe 10 more doing this and that.

I did not make more workers, after the first handfull. I made one round of settlers, maybe 8-10. I did not want to distort the mod too much.

In the third age, I had eliminated some nations and decided to go to AW mode with everyone, once they declared on me. Only 2CC Hannibal was at peace with me. I never landed units on the other lands.

Well I did drop one peacekeeper to make the last contact. I launched as Ihad only two tech left and did not see anyway to take down everyone, due to time.

I had 24 MGL's and 3 SGL. I could have had more MGL's, but no point to conserving elites for that as you can only rush structures.

Did you use the original space launch video? I ask as it never works for me, but did here. I had not seen in many years and was not sure. It could be Win7, if it is the original.

 

[ThERat]

I think currently there is a real issue with underdeveloped land due to the fact that workers are
a. snatched by others
b. used for fortresses

It makes progress very slow in the later game. Maybe the worker output could be increased by either making the worker housing produce more of them or having a second small wonder providing more workers maybe in the second era.

 

[Civinator]

Looks extremely promising

Hi Doc Tsiolkovski, that´s a great honour to hear such words from the last "surving" member of the greatest mod ever done for Civ 3. DYP and RAR (and to a minor degree Rhye´s) always were my number one epic mods for Civ 3 and had massively influenced CCM.

Now help a poor late-comer: Why no armies? For balance reasons, or because the AI doesn't fill them? The later could be solved easily with capacity=1, and +10HP, and the AI will use them adequately (but you know this already, I'd guess).

At present the attackers in CCM still are too strong (the next CCM biq will rise 1MV units coming with ballistics or later by +1A and +1D. Armies are not needed in CCM as they would additionally favour human players.

Why is the Palace a Small Wonder? I agree completely on the 'no prebuild' issue, but as a side effect - you cannot move the Palace. Unless you abandon the capital, of course. The same intended effect could be achieved by very low shield costs as well. (see Plotinus 'Rood and Dragon' for both concepts at work).:

Beside the 'no prebuild' issue the palace is the perequisite for some normal buildings (so these normal buildings can only build once per civ in the city with the palace). I want that these buildings can be destroyed by bombing and be rebuilt. This effect can´t be achieved with a small wonder. If the palace would be a normal building, the players (especially the human players) would build that building in the city with the palace and than move the palace and build that building again. This would strongly unbalance the gameplay of CCM.

Weak defenders: Isn't that a side effect from the lack of Barracks, at foremost? For the AI, a defender in garrison is a defender, whether is has DEF=1 or 100.

The defenders will become stronger in the next biq (CCM Betatest v.1.2) and if this is still not enough they get even stronger in v.1.3.

Culture bombs: The AI should use that effect almost as effective as the human. In RaR, Slaves could always be sacrificed, and since the AI gains both Slaves and Artists when it attacks a city => they're in the right place at the right time

Yes and I´m especially glad to find a great way to integrate Elvis in the game.

Slavers at al.: Really, we've been through that issue in the RaR testing. IMHO there simply is no working solution for Hidden Nationality land units....The AI keeps throwing them at cities, and the human at Workers.
At least, they cannot be built in CCM. The AI would go insane otherwise

Yes, enslavers in CCM are only a nasty addition to normal units in numbers that don´t let go the AI insane.

 

[Civinator]

I finally finished Civinator, very drained.

Congratulations vmxa and thank you for all your reports and thoughts.

I did not make more workers, after the first handfull. I made one round of settlers, maybe 8-10. I did not want to distort the mod too much.

May be in later versions of the CCM betatest biq there will be additional buildings for the different governments producing workers and no normal worker production.

Did you use the original space launch video? I ask as it never works for me, but did here. I had not seen in many years and was not sure. It could be Win7, if it is the original.

So you did a space victory and all worked well? Yes I use the original space launch video as I don´t have anything better yet.

 

[Civinator]

I think currently there is a real issue with underdeveloped land due to the fact that workers are
a. snatched by others
b. used for fortresses

It makes progress very slow in the later game. Maybe the worker output could be increased by either making the worker housing produce more of them or having a second small wonder providing more workers maybe in the second era.

The garrisons work much to well in CCM. In the next version of the CCM betatest biq, garrisons are removed from construction to the middle of era 2 and the AI infrastructure is developed much better.

Additional worker producing buildings for different governments in CCM are an issue for later versions of the biq.

 

[Moosezilla]

Having fascism is a blast. With 300+ workers I am the mean *****! Just got Combustion and boy are my Russobalt going to town, after town, after town. Yes, I am taking advantage of my 7 or 8 tech lead but soon money from tech sales will dry up. Loads of fun now (1800 AD). Oh, and with Egyptian cities on flood plains I can build new cities to use my culture "bombs".

 

[mythusmage]

Build units to protect your workers. Spearmen and Pikemen and Riflemen to defend against Slavers.

Prophets and Slavers are your friends used defensively. And with Slavers you can turn the other guys' Slavers into slaves.

The Pyramids may not provide all that many settlers before it becomes obsolete, but those settlers are still a nice addition to what the Palace produces.

Your Slavers attract enemy Warriors. Send your Slavers out roaming to see what's out there. Enslaving those pesky Barbarians is fun too.

Americans in CCM seem to have a talent for ticking off Barbarians. I suspect Civinator has met one too many American tourists.

Build up your forces when you've run out of things to build, you're going to need the units.

 

[vmxa]

The garrisons work much to well in CCM. In the next version of the CCM betatest biq, garrisons are removed from construction to the middle of era 2 and the AI infrastructure is developed much better.

What do you mean "work much too well"? It is just like C3C, they do little and are a foolish waste for the AI and should be removed completely. Humans will just bypass them or hit them with forces that are overpowering.

The AI would fare better, with the unit in the town. I would mostly just take down the town and poof, no garrison. Just a naked unit that I killed. If I wanted to attack and that tile was where I wanted to be, I bombed the unit and then killed it.

 

[Civinator]

Americans in CCM seem to have a talent for ticking off Barbarians. I suspect Civinator has met one too many American tourists. .

It´s the other way around. I was one of the barbarians who visited the States several times, even your San Diego.

 

[Civinator]

What do you mean "work much too well"?

I mean that the AI converts too much workers to garrisons.

 

[Civinator]

The new CCM betatest biq v1.2 and the new textfiles are ready for download:

http://www.stormoverciv.org/forums/showpost.php?p=24244&postcount=4

Please don´t forget, that this is a public betatest.

With this biq we will see how the new settings for less money available and higher tech research costs will work. Alliances were taken out to speed up gameturns in era 3 and 4 and the building of garrisons was pushed back to era 2 (tech Exploration) to get a stronger AI infrastructure. The civilopedia is far from beeing finished and I´m sure even for the biq a lot of other versions will follow.

Thank you all for your help.

 

[mythusmage]

It´s the other way around. I was one of the barbarians who visited the States several times, even your San Diego.

So your opinions of Americans is based upon your experience with American hospitality workers, eh? Don't blame you, next to American bureaucrats probably the most officious creatures you'll ever meet.

 

[tom2050]

I agree, most US bureaucrats are absolutely disgusting... with only a few exceptions. The reason no people should be judged based off the people in power. Powerhungry maniacs always make themselves and their whole countries look bad!

I play Civ3 like a powerhungry maniac war-torn battle hardened bureaucratic maniac.. destroying most all civ's; and protecting only a few

I will start anew with biq v1.2!

Tom