CCM2 Epic Mod

[AnthonyBoscia]

I couldn't tell you what the origin of those descriptions was. The despotism entry includes some of the original Firaxis text. It's quite possible that I ripped those from somewhere and failed to credit their source. At the time I had no interest in writing long-winded civilopedia treatises (oh the irony) and just wanted to get the game done. I didn't think anyone would play it anyway, much less look at the text. Certainly I didn't write it; I would never use the "word" boni in a sentence.

 

[Civinator]

Tony, thank you very much for your answer and I completely understand the motivation to get the game (finally) done.

I have a lot of fun with your wonderful unit creations, especially with your excellent Tiger unit, and I hope a lot of civers will have this fun with that unit in CCM 2.6, too.

 

[timerover51]

Gentlemen, please no quarrel about those descriptions of forms of government. Those descriptions in my eyes in CCM only have a "secondary character", as the important facts for playing CCM with these governments are all listed at the effects page of each government in the CCM civilopedia. Here is a screenshot about the effects page of the government "Monarchy" in CCM:

View attachment 675965

In standard Civ 3 there exists no government "Theocracy". When looking for descriptions of the government "Theocracy" in other C3C mods here at CFC, I found the following:

Expanding Civ3: a Theov Mod:

View attachment 675966

timerover51, I post this as the first example, as you are posting, that you are frequently playing this mod.

In another prominent C3C mod, the RAR mod, there stands the following description for government "Theocracy":

View attachment 675967

Here is the current description of the government "Theocracy" in my CCM mod:

View attachment 675968

In my eyes, this is by far the most cautious description and this discussion shows, why I made such a cautious description.

In C3C mods (and even in CCM) this form of government is mostly connected with the term "Holy War". Therefore in CCM the government allows a SW, that provides Crusaders, Ansar Warriors and Warrior Monks to a civ with that government. For the human player in CCM this form of government can be very interesting in the time of about 600 AD, if successful with researching tech Philosophy first, or otherwise 800 AD up to about 1200 AD - the time of the bloody Christian Crusades (Deus lo vult!) and the Islamic expansion. In later time that government should not be useful for the human player, but it was observed that mostly broke AI civs used it even in era 3 of the game.

Of course there is, per example, a difference between a medieval pope, who demands a bloody crusade against people with a different belief and an actual pope, who demands for peace and not for a Holy War. As I tried to explain, in CCM, as in other C3C mods, there is the focus on the "Holy War-forms" of that government.

In my eyes, there is also to distinguish between Religion and government Theocracy. Forms of Religion in CCM always give additional benefit for some people in happiness. The government "Theocracy" is using Religion as a means to an end (I hope here I use that term as a not-English-speaking person correctly - in German: Religion als Mittel zum Zweck). As such a not-English-speaking person I would like to write that form of government "Theo-cracy".

I am not playing the later version that includes Theocracy. If I did, I would change it quite a bit. I will make no more comments regarding government in this thread.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

I suppose ancient Mesopotamian civilisations are not in-scope for what Theocracy is supposed to represent?

I've only now had time to reply to this.

But I'm going to be succint: I've worked to provide a brief description that is capable of showing history and strategy all within the Civilopedia's strict limits.

I could write page upon page of how theocracies formed up in the world and their intrinsic particularities, however I'm satisfied with a summary, concise, short description that includes all the manifold forms of theocracy.

Like I said, the description does not constrain or specify necessarily just one form of theocracy, but is catch all that can be fine tuned to the needs and roleplaying of each and every player. Want to be a Muslim Caliph, a Shia Imam, an Archbishop? Well the description is already a sort of catch all that seeks to cover all of that.

It all depends upon the player, btw, and his own orientation. As a "Spiritual Lord", he could be very much a Mesoamerican priest or a Mesopotamian clergyman, however, it's up to him and his particular roleplaying vision and needs.

I could, I repeat, have tried to write very long and all encompassing instead of the present generic one, but I would run straight into the Civilopedia's limitations and also be unable to please everybody in here, I'm affraid. So when all is taken into account, I've done my best with all these regards.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

I can guarantee 100% that I didn't use Anthony Boscia's civilopedia as a source. In fact I'm an amateur modder at best, and didn't know there was such a mod until now. I think it's a big coincidence, and nothing more.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Lol, sorry Boscia, but I've taken these descriptions based on mixing Firaxis content with my own vision of what Renassaince and Middle Ages Monarchy/Despotism was like. LOL I didn't know it would end up like this, but I suppose the other government content doesn' run into that problem.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

MPCC, of course it can be, that you have written those texts for the Worldwide mod, but in this case I think that the question is allowed about the source of those description texts.

I didn't know such a mod existed until now. I'm a very green person, but in fact, as a laid it down here and as you Civinator optimized, corrected and mixed with Firaxis content wound up with a cosmic coincidence.

This is the first time I ever do Civilopedia writing as a matter of course.

 

[need my speed]

These are literally identical though, and two people won't have written multiple identical pieces of text. There must be some reason, no?

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

These are literally identical though, and two people won't have written multiple identical pieces of text. There must be some reason, no?

What I've drafted for Despotism and what was the final version, which Civinator edited and mixed with Firaxis content, are very different things. In fact I still have the original ones here, and of course I thought Civinator did a great job with the Despo/monarchy descriptions, but I didn't imagine that the final versions would be identical with those of other mod I never knew about until now.

So I can guarantee, from my part, that my drafts and my intent have been strictly for CCM, and I never did any job for another mod, and that all of this is a coincidence really.

I have nothing to say. I would be against changing the descriptions as they stand now. Clearly, unless Boscia has a problem with them, we can keep them. But the other govt descriptions don't have that problem at all.

 

[AnthonyBoscia]

No prob at all, MPCC. It just registered what happened here. The Worldwide mod has no civilopedia description for governments. Since CCM2 is presumably set up on Civinator's computer as the default game, as the mod is meant to be a C3C replacer, it is merely adding the CCM description to fill the empty space.

Civinator, thank you for the post and I am glad you enjoy the Tiger. As always, let me know if there's anything else you're looking for.

 

[MPorciusCatoCivver]

Lol stuff like that happens a lot irl. Yeah.

 

[Civinator]

The Worldwide mod has no civilopedia description for governments. Since CCM2 is presumably set up on Civinator's computer as the default game, as the mod is meant to be a C3C replacer, it is merely adding the CCM description to fill the empty space.

Yes. this is the explanation for that occurrence. MPCC, I am sorry for my question.

This occurrence shows a problem in the construction of the CCM mod as a complete expansion of the C3C main files, as it indeed fills gaps in the civilopedia of other mods and scenarios with informations of the CCM civilopedia. Another problem, that appeared with the settings of the Flintlock mod for CCM and the EFZI scenario, concerning the setting of single stealth attack targets is not forgotten, too.

Therefore, since a longer time, I am reflecting about another solution for the installation of CCM: An installation of a slightly modded normal epic game with all original entries in the civilopedia, no changes in government settings and other concepts, but a lot of added units, some renamed techs and a few additional buildings against corruption, so all original civilopedia entries are filling gaps in other mods and scenarios with the original civilopedia texts. That standard game can be started with the standard settings of the Flintlock mod.

The expansion of the art files of the CCM mod in the C3C main files will stay as it is. This allows, that other traditional mods and scenarios can be hosted at CFC with a minimum of download space. Per example the RARR mod now can be hosted at CFC with only 13 MBs in a normal post instead of the more than 1 GB, that a separate download would demand. This shows a much better result than the best zip-programs and allows some mods and scenarios to be hosted at CFC with nearly needing next to no space, per example AoI, SOE and WW2 Global Gold.

CCM 2.6 will additionally be installed with its text files and the graphics files for the different techtrees in the scenarios folder, needing only some additional MB in a normal post at CFC and use the expanded art files of the C3C main folder (as this can be done by other mods and scenarios, too). I consider this as my second best idea of modding Civ 3 (after the advanced autoproduction settings). Suggestions to draw tons of relative path links to all graphics and sound files from a CCM mod in the scenarios folder to another mod or scenario in the scenarios folder in my eyes are not practically.

Here are some screenshots about such a slightly modded epic standard game, that I did in German language:

As posted: Only some reflections...

 

[Takeo]

Here are some screenshots about such a slightly modded epic standard game, that I did in German language:

Almost looks like an early precursor to CCM 1.

 

[timerover51]

It took 2 hours and 10 minutes for me to download it. I am not on a really slow internet, so I was surprised by how long it took.

 

[Civinator]

It took 2 hours and 10 minutes for me to download it. I am not on a really slow internet, so I was surprised by how long it took.

This remembers me on my download times for SOE with my, at that time underpowered pc, more than 15 years ago: 18 hours - and after 14 hours frequently a download error did occur. Today I made an additional test of the download times of the CCM 2.50 mod and the download time for me was still 9 minutes - but at the time of the first download of the CCM 2.5 files I had a very strong pc, that is still strong today.

 

[timerover51]

This remembers me on my download times for SOE with my, at that time underpowered pc, more than 15 years ago: 18 hours - and after 14 hours frequently a download error did occur. Today I made an additional test of the download times of the CCM 2.50 mod and the download time for me was still 9 minutes - but at the time of the first download of the CCM 2.5 files I had a very strong pc, that is still strong today.

I am still using an IBM Thinkpad that I got as part of a job in 1915. It runs fine, but could use a little work. I am short of memory, so I was downloading CCM onto a flash drive, and that might have slowed things down as well.

 

[Takeo]

I am still using an IBM Thinkpad that I got as part of a job in 1915. It runs fine, but could use a little work.

Being a 108 years old I would think that it would need a little work.

 

[timerover51]

Being a 108 years old I would think that it would need a little work.

You got me there. It was actually 2015. Chalk it up to just turning 72.

 

[timerover51]

Now trying it with my Macbook Pro. Download speed is around 775 kilobytes per second, so the estimate is one hour and thirty-eight minutes. It looks like it is the Internet connection speed. Such is life.

 

[clamel]

Gosh, I have been away from this old game for so long I had problem signing in and even then I first was not permitting to post. Not enough priviliges ??
Maybe it had something to do with my old email that was not updated, fixed then I was back, as one can see since this writing.

Well, to the question Civinator
I could scan over hundreds of posts but I'm a bit lazy so I ask direct how things are getting along with the update of this fantastic Mod.
I planned to start up 2.50 but was hoping that a newer version was ava.
Since I can't find my old CDs (or was it DVDs) of Civ3 I bought the Complete version on GOG, so fresh new installment.
Remember there was some issues with some of the versions (like Steam) not handling this Mod correctly, or was it the Antal update (or I read about a newer Flintlock update)
I would be very pleased to get some guidence or directions, beside the knowledge on where you are in the update. (Are we looking pre Christmas ?. This year that is or further down the years)