CDG Series Discussion Thread

[beetle]

…so the question is how do peeps now feel about the larger maps?

I think all deference should be given to the person rolling and sharing the map. That said, my impression is that the game mechanics degrade with any deviation from standard size/pace 8/16. In particular, I feel like the number of trade routes and spies should scale somewhat depending on the number of AIs in the game.

Generally the games are slightly longer, diplomacy will be more alive, there'll br more space for settling (for AI,too obviously), warfare will be trickier as AI tends to have relatively more units and so on. Usually the games are closer civ building than beelining to whatever one desires so probably more suitable for RP than competition.

The larger maps just feel like more a grind to me. Can you give me some examples of “more alive diplomacy”? Maybe I need to be more on the lookout for the game to be better! More civs should mean more ideology tension, and a better 3-way balance, but I can’t say I have picked up on that. But I do not much play larger maps myself. OTOH, anything to to encourage Liberty over Tradition is welcome.

Personally I prefer Large maps over Std but I'm fine with sticking with them as well.

I think that this is good enough justification on its own!

 

[Grendeldef]

Yups, more options available generally. Sadly, the AI isn't getting any better by the numbers.

Early stages one has more options especially on a non-Pangaea maps and it is slightly more vibrant as the civs tend to have more immediate neighbours. By the time of ideologies it's much less likely that anyone will be alone with their choice etc. The a drastic change but somewhat better on larger maps.

The latter stages tend to become grindy no matter what hence I usually end my own games well before actually winning - by the time AI has lost any chance of making a comeback. The larger maps postpone this a bit or a lot depending on circumstances.
The other bonus is that more free lands makes Liberty more viable solution and more equal with Tradition. Also it prolongs the early which I prefer.

The downside is that it may also totally screw up the AI tech pace later on but with unfinished that's not an issue

Apart from those there're some other pros and cons but I think in the end it's a matter of personal taste. I just prefer the 10/20 over 8/16 as a baseline.

 

[beetle]

Korean game is up. I did not do a lite version because I do not recall their being psychopathic neighbors, but I rolled this map back in early February and do not remember much! I am playing it again.

 

[Grendeldef]

Goodie. I'll make the Songhai map available around April 10th the actual publishing date being open to discussion and depending on how fast people play through this.

Meanwhile I started the #22 Maya map and yeah, Shaka is lovely person creating more mess than all the others combined and I wish there was a middle ground between him and the rest.

 

[beetle]

If you have a map already that's great. Would you say the map suits a Liberty game?

@KingVercingetorix, I wanted to ping you because you asked for the Korean game (and it has been a while). I think I mixed up my maps, but the one I posted seems to be okay.

 

[beetle]

I think I mixed up my maps, but the one I posted seems to be okay.

I definitely mixed up my map, and the one I posted is kind of boring. Low hammers, and an isolated start. As it happens, most of the starting locations are low on hammers.

I still can't stand the map script. Gief at least two coastal tiles everywhere with these crappy islands/continents.

I am sorry to hear that. Small Continents Plus is my favorite Firaxis script. I am re-rolling a Carthage maps, and I plan to use SCP for it, as I want a map where the free harbors are really noticeable.

 

[Grendeldef]

Nah, it's nothing major but I have several complaints about every map script built-in - that originally dragged me to TI and scripts alike.

In case of these small island type maps an easy almost-fix would to have (much) larger coastal waters and/or have a naval unit which can cross borders without OB. A merchant ship without ability to block or pillage for example.
Now, global position matters too much since one easily blocked border expansion and it has a tendency to make life a bit boring in the early stages.

----

About the Songhai map - I thought I had a good one but after I got it back from fiddling it turned out to have two Haralds so unless there's an easy way to fix that I'm back in square 1 but luckily there's still plenty of time.

 

[beetle]

I thought I had a good one but after I got it back from fiddling it turned out to have two Haralds so unless there's an easy way to fix that I'm back in square 1 but luckily there's still plenty of time.

LOL, I hate it when I do that!

I have to clear out the polar ice, but I have decent Carthage map about ready to go too.

 

[Grendeldef]

The 10th is around the corner and I have nothing yet on Askia but I don't see that as a major issue since I haven't even started the Korea game nor have others advanced much on that front based on results and Beetle is also starting that 8-part series so I'll postpone this at least a week or so.

 

[beetle]

I say post it when you have it. The uptake on the new series is about what I expected.

 

[Grendeldef]

I'm thinking about the coming weekend. I have few candidates but nothing decisive yet besides there's the Attila game to fill up one's time for few days.

 

[Grendeldef]

I have the CDG30 Askia base map now and I'm expecting to get it back tomorrow so it'll be ready for playing tomorrow or Tuesday at latest.

It's a std 8/16 TI but it'll be cooked to make wide play easier in hope getting peeps out of 4C Tradition openings. I'm also planning to have some achievements to encourage wide play or generally more active play so to speak. As usual, everyone is free to ignore those as it's still not a competition.
There'll be a Lite version as well with the option to get a T0/T1 worker but not without DoW.

 

[Grendeldef]

The CDG 30 as Askia is up now.


Not too many Civs left but I think Cathy was one them and if no one has objections or a map ready I'll start rolling for CDG #32 assuming someone else will take care of #31. Expected ToA late May/early June.

 

[Grendeldef]

As far as I can quickly make up this is the list of unused civs in the series so far.

Aztecs
Carthage
Dutch
Egypt
England
Greeks
India
Japan
Mongolia
Morocco
Roma
Russia // Gren, provisional #32
Siam

I said earlier that I could cook up something with Cathy so I'll stick to that which leaves a dozen civs free for anyone to call dibs for. I'd especially like to see those currently playing the Lite versions to roll (and cook) a map to suit their wishes, needs, whatever and even more so make the Lite version as it feels comfortable. By the past actions Beetle can probably roll double the maps with ease the rest of us can put out combined so the series is in good hands.

-----add.------

I also have an idea of a cooked map which would probably be best for Carthage but it can work with any of the leftovers the Mongols likely being the worst choice out of the pack.

 

[beetle]

Thanks for that @Grendeldef! I do not anticipate posting any more CDG maps myself, until I get through the sixth games of my versus series.

I would love see Carthage sooner than later, but I am really hoping for a map where the free Harbors are noticeable. In particular, I would love to see Messenger of the Gods amount to something!

By the past actions Beetle can probably roll double the maps with ease the rest of us can put out combined so the series is in good hands.

Your confidence is misplaced, but I thank you for it!

 

[Grendeldef]

I do not anticipate posting any more CDG maps myself, until I get through the sixth games of my versus series.

That just leaves more options & time for the map virgins to roll something cool. I'm in no hurry either but I can surely do Dido before Cathy.

...but I am really hoping for a map where the free Harbors are noticeable. In particular, I would love to see Messenger of the Gods amount to something!

With the vision I have for it both would be viable for both but as the scripts just won't roll a map like it I'll have to cook it myself hence I can cater some wishes to a degree as well. The main worry is that it may also hamper a bit (or a lot on worst case scenario) the nearby civs but that remains to be seen.

Your confidence is misplaced, but I thank you for it!

Not at all besides I'm the eternal pessimist from the North so if I don't see an immediate doom we're just fine.

 

[Grendeldef]

If there're no volunteers for presenting #31 in reasonable time frame I can put a Cathy map out as #31 instead of #32. I sort of got hooked on IGE so I made up a playable base map which will be detailed in few days so I assume I'll get it back this week to be published on Monday 14th at latest. Ice hockey WC is seriously screwing my schedule atm.

I haven't much given thoughts about the achis yet so I'm open to suggestions. One will be # of Kreposts at some point in time but other than that I got nothing even remotely specific. I'd like to have something related to tundra as well as to Cossacks. Perhaps something to do with religion as it'd fit the theme but at this point I don't know if that'll be possible. Religion on Deity is always just a possibility.

The basics of the map are std TI, 8 civs, ***18*** CS, low sea lvl & some addtional land on top of that, raging barbs, few additional NWs.

Spoiler other civs :

Assyria
Brazil
Celts
Dutch
Maya
Shoshone
Spain

 

[beetle]

I haven't much given thoughts about the achis yet so I'm open to suggestions.

I am glad you are doing achievements. This was, of course, one of the most interesting aspects of the series. No one bothered with the achievements from my previous three games (19, 20, 24) -- and they were all so clever!

With CDG13 there were points for Terrace Farms. I think the numbers there would work okay for tundra files in one’s control. But maybe tundra is a little more tedious to count?
Points for Kreposts sounds good.
I would like to see points for the maximum number of Cossacks online. I would suggest exponential scoring for that: 2=1 point, 4=2 points, 8=3 points, etc.

 

[Grendeldef]

No one bothered with the achievements from my previous three games (19, 20, 24) -- and they were all so clever!

Lazy b'tards

I think I could start my back tracking with those then.


Achis are cool way of spicing up the game and as far as I or someone else can make something decent even better if thematically some will be included.

1) # of Kreposts at some point - will be a rough equivalent to the cities before NC in the Askia game
2) # of Cossacks at some point or max # at any point
3) # of improved tundra tiles - scaling similar to cities taken by Mandekalu in the Askia game
4) something religious, prolly something with pantheons and I'll make sure there's a reasonable chance of getting pantheon or # of units/buildings bought with faith
5) ???

Scoring will likely be 1,2,3,4 & 6pts for each achi capping nicely @30

A workable start ?

 

[Grendeldef]

The CDG 31 thread is open and the game playable within 20hrs so that's the buffer until the achis are final. I'm still taking input for and against of what has been presented.
The achis will go along with (modestly) wide domination and that's not gonna change however compelling arguments against this there might be.


Also, any takers for the #32?