CDG Series Discussion Thread

[Shark Diver]

That is totally contradictory to the original aims for the series. If anything, I think we should be giving less emphasis to finish time.

Also, finish time is its own reward. No reason to give points for that. People work to win quickly as it is. Especially given that finish time is the metric for every other series. Scant attention to finish time for achievement points is a distinguishing feature of this series!

Well, I wasn't around when those discussion took place so please forgive me for having the audacity of contradicting that which should have been so blatantly obvious to me (slight case of sarcasm there).

I do like the other rewards as it does change game play and forces us to try things we don't normally do. But I'm still trying to finish as quickly as possible while still accomplishing as many of the other tasks as I can. I'll still emphasize finish time as that's the first way I compare my game to others.

I don't care too much if finishing time is over or under-emphasized, I just am not going to sit around and extend a game so I can pick up a couple of extra achievement points. That's incentivized now, and it is a bit cheezy IMHO, so that's where my comments come from.

 

[stormtrooper412]

As a general rule, not just for this particular set of achievements, it occurs to me that finishing time should be weighted more than the other achievements. Obviously, going backwards and adjusting previous games would be rather unwieldy, and I'm not suggesting it here, but if this series is ever reset I'd suggest finishing time point totals be doubled and the rest become just a bit more stingy.

Doubling points if done without a reload is a pretty good idea and addresses that and most here seem to be pretty honest about such.

What are the thoughts behind excluding some Wonders? How can one exclude the glorious Petra?

2000 BPT seems a bit excessive to me, considering I've rarely allowed a SV game to last long enough to get to that number. To get 2000 requires more cities than I'd usually go for in a SV, so is this pushing towards a scientifically based semi-expansive game? Perhaps a sliding scale for awards (1200 bot = 1 pnt, 1600 = 2 pnts, 2000 = 3 pnts as a suggestion).

I like the idea of 24 social policies.

there was a lot of talk about whether or not to give weights to finishing times and we ultimately decided it would be a minor factor whereas achievements would be the major one. I disagree with this particular set of achievements since we had a fast SV game not that long ago and Siam are not really about that. The achievements in general so far have been more or less civ-centric and that worked well for the most part

 

[Grendeldef]

That is totally contradictory to the original aims for the series. If anything, I think we should be giving less emphasis to finish time.

Also, finish time is its own reward. No reason to give points for that. People work to win quickly as it is. Especially given that finish time is the metric for every other series. Scant attention to finish time for achievement points is a distinguishing feature of this series!

This.

I was planning to make a (much) longer post but it's like I've outsourced my thoughts on the matter but to make even a slightly original comment I hope we've had enough salty starts for a while.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

This.

I was planning to make a (much) longer post but it's like I've outsourced my thoughts on the matter but to make even a slightly original comment I hope we've had enough salty starts for a while.

But salt is so fun... I kind of agree there though, a good start should only be followed by a hard map. I only like quick finish times because then I have less of a chance of falling asleep and never finishing the game.

 

[Grendeldef]

I only like quick finish times because then I have less of a chance of falling asleep and never finishing the game.

I partly solved that problem by skipping the easier ones altogether as I never woke up during a game - sleepwalk cruising mode or something like that but it didn't seem worth the time invested with the limited time I have.
The problem with (multiple) salt in particular is that it's just too good hence an easy path to a ruined gaming experience.

 

[stormtrooper412]

you know, that's actually a good point, we've had what like 3 salt starts in a row

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

I partly solved that problem by skipping the easier ones altogether as I never woke up during a game - sleepwalk cruising mode or something like that but it didn't seem worth the time invested with the limited time I have.
The problem with (multiple) salt in particular is that it's just too good hence an easy path to a ruined gaming experience.

Yeah, the trick seems to be to make the amazing start balance out a crazy hard map. Something like not just giving the player salt, but giving the AI 3 salts and room to plant 10 more salty, fishy cities. While carpets of doom may be easy to kill, its hard to sleep walk when they are all marching on you one at a time. This may be a fun theme for a later map.

I've kept meaning to take the time to create a funny April Fool's day map, but I keep missing time so I'm bowing out now before I let everyone down. Someone else feel free to take April 1st, if I change my mind I'll just post it as a bonus in strategy and tips outside of the series.

I don't think I ever locked in a promise for a map for that day, but I've mentioned that I want to a lot throughout this thread so I'm verbally retracting all of that now so there is no confusion.

 

[beetle]

I've kept meaning to take the time to create a funny April Fool's day map, but I keep missing time so I'm bowing out now before I let everyone down. Someone else feel free to take April 1st, if I change my mind I'll just post it as a bonus in strategy and tips outside of the series.

I don't think I ever locked in a promise for a map for that day, but I've mentioned that I want to a lot throughout this thread so I'm verbally retracting all of that now so there is no confusion.

That's too bad, I was really looking forward to what you were cooking up. I don't think five days is much time for someone else. I wish you had bailed earlier, or been less assertive with claiming the date.

 

[fimbul]

It seems based on feedback I did not understand the point of series - please consider map withdrawn.

 

[gobbledydook]

When is the next CDG?

 

[Shark Diver]

When is the next CDG?

I have a ridiculously diabolical map I could post for April 1st if nobody else steps up.

My suggested points would be:

5 points if you don't want to kill me after the 1st 50 turns.

10 points if you don't want to kill me after the 1st 100 turns.

20 points if you can achieve any type of victory.

Difficulty level: Beyond your worst nightmare.

I'm not even going to spoil it by naming the civ (it hasn't been used in this series yet) or anything else. If anyone wants me to post this I will, and I fully expect a ton of hate mail.

I am not sure I can win on this map. I suspect there might be a couple of you that can, but even the very best would be challenged to not want to wipe a smirk off of my face.

Do you all trust me enough to post this based on this limited info?

(Hint: you shouldn't. The map I refer to is that evil).

 

[gobbledydook]

I have a ridiculously diabolical map I could post for April 1st if nobody else steps up.

My suggested points would be:

5 points if you don't want to kill me after the 1st 50 turns.

10 points if you don't want to kill me after the 1st 100 turns.

20 points if you can achieve any type of victory.

Difficulty level: Beyond your worst nightmare.

I'm not even going to spoil it by naming the civ (it hasn't been used in this series yet) or anything else. If anyone wants me to post this I will, and I fully expect a ton of hate mail.

I am not sure I can win on this map. I suspect there might be a couple of you that can, but even the very best would be challenged to not want to wipe a smirk off of my face.

Do you all trust me enough to post this based on this limited info?

(Hint: you shouldn't. The map I refer to is that evil).

Can we have a starting location sneak peek?

 

[Grendeldef]

Sounds extremely promising but I think there is some room left for tuning the achievements.

 

[Shark Diver]

Sounds extremely promising but I think there is some room left for tuning the achievements.

Well, I played a bunch of turns on the suggested diabolical map. It's not even close to fun. I made it too hard and it's not appropriate for this series (or any other that I'd want to participate in). It was an interesting idea, but I got a bit too evil.

The concept was:

Spoiler :

Take weak civ on a Pangea with limited resources, add a couple of extra civs to make it really crowded, then set the AI's to all early powerful warmongers.

I tried several versions, but the one that absolutely kicked my butt was: Venice, no CS on the map, 9 AI, and 3 were Shaka, 3 Monte, 3 Attila and all VC were disabled besides Dom. Maybe some lucky diplo could have made it survivable, but this was not fun at all.

I tried a few other similar scenarios but stacking the deck like that makes life a bit too difficult.

 

[beetle]

I sure hope someone posts something for April Fools. A few months back, StormTrooper had an interesting idea where everyone is playing as Venice and city states are turned off. The thread died and, personally, I never found settings that I thought worked very well -- but I still think the idea has merit!

For April 15th, I plan to post a Byzantium map. I keep rolling and playing them. Mostly they do not really work, but every third one or so is more interesting than my previous efforts.

Domination is designated VC. Proposed (re)revised achievements for Byzantium map follow:

• Clear your continent with mostly† only the UU, 3 points.
• Each cap conquered before Compass, 3 points each. ‡
• Each cap conquered before Navigation, 2 points each. ‡
• Each cap conquered before Electronics, 1 point each. ‡
• One point each for Reformation belief, completing Piety, and ending the game with your as World Religion in WC, 3 points available.
• One point for each rival Holy City converted at the end of the game, 4 points available.
• End the game with your religion (by city count) as the plurality (1 point) or majority (2 points).

†Starting warrior, Scouts, scarchers, CS gifts are all allowed. No turn limit, and all units (including UU) may be upgraded. You can train other units (e.g. a caravel), but for the achievement, they must not be used on your starting continent.
‡Stacks with the first achievement above. No constraints on training units.

By my count, there are 25 achievement points available. That is a bit much, but my Denmark map had 21 points available and this one is harder. Donkeyfish had a terrific game but only got 13 points. Everyone else is single digits. So I think these will work.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Allright, that does it, I feel bad about dropping the ball so I'm just going to roll a map and post it tonight around Midnight United States Eastern Standard Time. I'm doing Venice, might boot up IGE or might just roll with some silly settings, but unless someone posts something before me then Venice's Fool Part Deux will be up tonight for CDG #11.

I was hoping to take hours and hours to sculpt an absolutely ridiculous map with IGE, but I'm just going to play with IGE for half an hour and post what I get tonight. Anyways, achievements will be:

1. Buy city states with MOV's - 1 point for every CS purchased, maximum of 5 points. 6 if done in 5 different eras. Just like the Austria map but with Venice.
2. Puppet the whole map - 5 points (6 if you never raze a city personally)
3. Build/buy/upgrade a maximum of 3 Great Galleas's and keep them alive until the end of the game (They can be upgraded). - 1 point for each surviving Great Galleas, maximum of 3
4. Make MAD Money at some point during the game (500 gpt - 1 pt, 1000 gpt 3 pts., 2000 gpt. 5 pts.
5. Annex a city - 1 point

23 points total, although I am not sure if its possible to earn 2000 gpt (it would be epic if so). I will be disabling cultural victory so that achievement 2 is actually possible and to give the AI a little more fire. Going to try rolling a map on standard settings, most DLC removed, hand-picked opponents, archipelago, non-standard city state amount (Might max that out), and some more April Fool's day IGE fun. Victory condition will be domination.

Please share your thoughts, I was originally going to do a crazy Huns OCC map that I have been planning in my head since November but that will require hours of map manipulation for me to be happy with. This will just be a standard CIV V rolled map with a few surprises and all Ice blockage removed.

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

Well, I played a bunch of turns on the suggested diabolical map. It's not even close to fun. I made it too hard and it's not appropriate for this series (or any other that I'd want to participate in). It was an interesting idea, but I got a bit too evil.

The concept was:

Spoiler :

Take weak civ on a Pangea with limited resources, add a couple of extra civs to make it really crowded, then set the AI's to all early powerful warmongers.

I tried several versions, but the one that absolutely kicked my butt was: Venice, no CS on the map, 9 AI, and 3 were Shaka, 3 Monte, 3 Attila and all VC were disabled besides Dom. Maybe some lucky diplo could have made it survivable, but this was not fun at all.

I tried a few other similar scenarios but stacking the deck like that makes life a bit too difficult.

I like this idea, I read it a few days ago and think you should post it anyways if you want to. Otherwise, I'm planning on rolling a much easier map tonight because the show must go on! You were right though, that is truly diabolical and I doubt anyone could win on settings like that...

 

[Shark Diver]

Allright, that does it, I feel bad about dropping the ball so I'm just going to roll a map and post it tonight around Midnight United States Eastern Standard Time. I'm doing Venice, might boot up IGE or might just roll with some silly settings, but unless someone posts something before me then Venice's Fool Part Deux will be up tonight for CDG #11.

I was hoping to take hours and hours to sculpt an absolutely ridiculous map with IGE, but I'm just going to play with IGE for half an hour and post what I get tonight. Anyways, achievements will be:

1. Buy city states with MOV's - 1 point for every CS purchased, maximum of 5 points. 6 if done in 5 different eras. Just like the Austria map but with Venice.
2. Puppet the whole map - 5 points (6 if you never raze a city personally)
3. Build/buy/upgrade a maximum of 3 Great Galleas's and keep them alive until the end of the game (They can be upgraded). - 1 point for each surviving Great Galleas, maximum of 3
4. Make MAD Money at some point during the game (500 gpt - 1 pt, 1000 gpt 3 pts., 2000 gpt. 5 pts.
5. Annex a city - 1 point

23 points total, although I am not sure if its possible to earn 2000 gpt (it would be epic if so). I will be disabling cultural victory so that achievement 2 is actually possible and to give the AI a little more fire. Going to try rolling a map on standard settings, most DLC removed, hand-picked opponents, archipelago, non-standard city state amount (Might max that out), and some more April Fool's day IGE fun. Victory condition will be domination.

Please share your thoughts, I was originally going to do a crazy Huns OCC map that I have been planning in my head since November but that will require hours of map manipulation for me to be happy with. This will just be a standard CIV V rolled map with a few surprises and all Ice blockage removed.

I like the awards. I'm not sure how to get 2000 GPT while conquering or puppeting all trade partners?

I'm a bit tired of Dom games, but beyond that, sounds like a decent change of pace.

As far as I'm concerned, post it.

 

[Shark Diver]

I like this idea, I read it a few days ago and think you should post it anyways if you want to. Otherwise, I'm planning on rolling a much easier map tonight because the show must go on! You were right though, that is truly diabolical and I doubt anyone could win on settings like that...

That particular map has been sent into the wasteland of internet delete-ether. It did inspire an idea for a future map for me though.....

 

[Wild_Woojsha]

I like the awards. I'm not sure how to get 2000 GPT while conquering or puppeting all trade partners?

I'm a bit tired of Dom games, but beyond that, sounds like a decent change of pace.

As far as I'm concerned, post it.

I was debating knocking that one down a peg, maybe to just 500, 750, and 1000. The idea is to get it and snap a screenshot before you lose it. I've never gotten that much, but I know some other players have during their domination runs. Besides, all it takes is one trade partner city to send all 12 trade routes to.

BTW, do you get the extra trade route slot if you capture colossus and Petra instead of building? I might make building both of those an achievement too if you don't, I cannot remember but I don't think it works like that...

I agree, we could use a break on domination after the Byz map, but I see no other alternative with a money-grubbing Civ like Venice. However, this will be naval domination, so that is kind of a change of pace.