Celtic and Anglo-Saxon civs (all of 'em)

[Shaitan]

I'm working on a mod for all of the celtic and anglo-saxon civs that inhabited the British isles and the Norman coast of France (before the Normans though).

Celts include : Irish, Scotish, Welsh, Cornish, Manx and Briton
Anglo-Saxons include : Northumbrian, East Anglican, Mercian, Essex, Sussex and Kent

The Celts are fleshed out very well already with great leaders, special unit, etc. I'm having some problems with the Anglo-Saxons though. I just don't know enough about them. What great leaders were there from East Anglia, Essex, Sussex and Kent? Are there any special units appropriate for these civs? What about civ traits? What's the correct adjective to describe Essex, Sussex and Kent?

Right now I've got a marauder as the special unit for all 6 of them (replaces warrior, attack bonus). For civ traits they're all milititaristic and expansionist. If anyone can help me flesh these out I'd greatly appreciate it. I can also use any leader heads (decent pics of germanic knights would work great).

Attached Excel file has the work in progress. Celts on tab one, Anglo-Saxons on tab 2. If you can't open Excel just message me and I'll see if I can convert it to a text file for you.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

You forgot Wessex.

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Kahran Ramsus
You forgot Wessex.

Oops. They weren't forgotted in development, just in my post. What I have on them so far is in the Excel file.

Update - Found an amazingly nice site that listed kings for all of the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms. I'll use these to fill out the great leader roster if nobody can come up with heros.

 

[Longshanks]

Sorry to be a pain but I'm not sure about the way you've divided this up:

Celts include : Irish, Scotish, Welsh, Cornish, Manx and Briton
Anglo-Saxons include : Northumbrian, East Anglican, Mercian, Essex, Sussex and Kent

The Scots and Irish were both living in Ireland until the Scots migrated to (whats now) Scotland. They are part of the Northern Celtic race.

The Cornish, Manx and Welsh are part of the Southern Celtic race (different language to the Scots and Irish). The Britons aren't a seperate race - the word Briton is used to describe the Celtic tribes living in Britain before the Anglo-Saxon invasions - and subsequently 'pushed' into Cornwall and Wales after the invasion.

The Anglo-Saxon races can be split up into Angles, Saxons and Jutes. The Angles settled in Anglia, the Jutes in Kent and the Isle of Wight, and the Saxons across the rest of England.

So if you want to do it by race, the best picks in the dark ages in Britain are:

Southern Celts (you could call these Welsh, since the term was used to refer to the Britons in general rather than Wales itself)

Northern Celts

Jutes

Angles

Saxons

Picts (you forgot these I think)

Danes (the Vikings)

If you want to do it by region:

Cornwall (Britons)
Wales (Britons) (split Wales up into major Kingdoms ie Powys etc)
Mercia (saxons)
Northumbria (saxons)
Wessex (saxons)
Sussex (saxons)
Essex (saxons)
Anglia (Angles)
Kent (Jutes)
Caledonia (picts)
Eire (Scots and Irish)

The Danes held most of the North and East during the 9th Century.

I may be able to find out some names of leaders. But to start.

Offa would be the leader for the Mercians
Alfred the Great for Wessex
Ambrosius was a Briton leader during the Anglo Saxon invasions
Owayn Ddantgwyn is a leader of Powys I believe

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by Longshanks
Sorry to be a pain but I'm not sure about the way you've divided this up:

Celts include : Irish, Scotish, Welsh, Cornish, Manx and Briton
Anglo-Saxons include : Northumbrian, East Anglican, Mercian, Essex, Sussex and Kent

Thanks for the correction. That should be Breton (or Brethon, not sure which is more correct) for Brittany (France). Wessex is also missing in that list but is in the mod.

My little research revealed Northumbria and Mercia to be Anglo. Are you sure about them being Saxon?

My intention is to create a civ for each of the main kingdoms of the Brittish isles at around 600 AD. The Bretons were included to complete the Celtic kingdoms and because they did have a measurable effect on developments of the "Saxon shore". You're right that I should include the Picts and Danes as well - I'll add them in after the holidays. Any ideas for Pictish leaders and cities? They didn't have too many cities as far as I remember. The only Pictish leader I know of is Boudicca (of the Iceni tribe).

I think I'll make the Danish civ "The Danelaw".

 

[celtic_bhoy]

What about Galicia, in the north of Spain? Aren't they Celts too. Their major soccer team is also named, "Celta Vigo".

 

[Shaitan]

Originally posted by celtic_bhoy
What about Galicia, in the north of Spain? Aren't they Celts too. Their major soccer team is also named, "Celta Vigo".

I can't find any reference to Celts in Galicia. From what I find the region was originally controlled by the Suevi (Germanic tribe) then the Moors and then Asturia.

 

[Shaitan]

I've posted the mod in its current state to the Modpack forum at http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12923

We can end this thread. It probably should have been over there to begin with.

 

[Longshanks]

You could be right about the Mercians and Northumbrians being Angles rather than Saxons. I haven't read up on this stuff for years now so there are gaps in my knowledge

 

[Bismarck]

I remember reading in a Britannica article that the "Celts" of modern times really have nothing to do with those of ancient times.

The Romans invented the term "Celts" as a convenience, as a way of referring collectively to the native peoples of Western Europe (Spain excluded). This was a ridiculously broad umbrella term, and served to obscure the many differences between the individual "Celtic" tribes.

The Romans generally did not refer to Britons as "Celts." In fact, there's no record of any Celts residing on the isle prior to its conquest by Rome.

Today's usage of "Celts" in reference to certain non-English peoples of Britain, on the other hand, is a thoroughly modern invention (or so the article said). It was inspired by nationalist sentiments some time after the union of 1801.

 

[macaskil]

Bismarck

While it is true that the Romans used the term Celt as a catch-all it is nonsense to suggest that no Celts (in the modern sense) lived in Britain before the Romans.

Celts can best be defined as those who speak Celtic languages.
Britain and Ireland were both inhabited by Celtic-speaking peoples, as was Gaul (now France) and Julius Caesar noted the similarities in language between Britain and Gaul. The Irish were NEVER conquered by the Romans so we can assume that the inhabitants in 1 BC spoke a Celtic language as they did until recent times when English more or less took over.

What is true is that it is only in modern times that Celtic nationalism has arisen; but then nationalism is a modern phenomenon anyway. Irish Nationalism in particular arose as a response to the British abolishing the Irish Parliament in 1800 and the subsequent hardships suffered by the Irish which convinced many Irishmen that independence was necessary, and the appeal to a Celtic identity based on the Gaelic language and culture was part of that campaign. Inevitably sentimentality and myth were used to bolster national feeling which is perhaps what the article is referring to.