shyuhe
Deity
@kossin - were you expecting more players to opt for the GW on this map?
Charlemagne Emperor Cookbook!(EC)!! Let the games begin!!!
- Thread starter Gumbolt
- Start date
Not really, it certainly is a very good wonder so one can focus on settlers/workers but archery isn't that far and Charley is protective. Of course there are plenty of trees to chop it out but my test games that were the best avoided it - never mind that though as it's not a fair comparison basis.
Basically it's Archery vs Masonry (less beakers for Archery but it's dead-end).
Build 3~4 archers vs TGW (less hammers for Archers but no GPP).
It can be done with only warriors but you need luck and either great scouting or map knowledge.
A lot of people tell players moving up to avoid wonders and build more settlers/workers but at times it is the best course of action and should be done. It was a good choice here given all the land available without AIs.
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2008
- Messages
- 27,129
Thanks for the input, Kossin. Honestly, I've already learned several great things just by playing this one out and listening to your feedback. It's amazing what you can get away with at lower levels, even Prince. I had a tendency to build improvements, then road as I go (not every time mind you but if on a tile why not lay a road), connect cities and so on. Heck, I'd never even really thought about the whole river aspect of connecting a road to it (that's revelatory for me and just saves so many worker turns). I now realize that one aspect of higher levels is workers just don't have time to build all these roads improvements and cottages need to go up fast.
If you have time, deeper insight into your decisions based on knowledge of neighbors, map etc. and resulting choices would be useful - especially at the early stages of the game which seem so vital.
I see why you don't posts saves for consideration, but maybe an after-the-fact post would be something worth taking look at for us.
If you have time, deeper insight into your decisions based on knowledge of neighbors, map etc. and resulting choices would be useful - especially at the early stages of the game which seem so vital.
I see why you don't posts saves for consideration, but maybe an after-the-fact post would be something worth taking look at for us.
MaximumPain
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 158
It really wouldn't be fair -Spoiler :
.
I would have took that spot but you cant see the silver with out moving the scout north around the hill/woods for 2 turns or taking a chance on moving the settler 1 E. I dont like to screw around for very long with my first city when there seems to be a good spot that I can jump on right away.
Ill vote tonight when I can take a better look at the saves.
It's too early still to go in deep explanations. I might later on though.
Obviously, I added hills/forests so that only 1 correct scout move would show the silver. OTOH, there's a plains hill just a bit south that was meant as the more-or-less obvious alternative, being Imperialistic and it having a good amount of food, but a lot of players settled 1S, barring the site 1SW of the silver (although it can be gotten in another way wherever you settle).
My goal was to give opportunities and it seems it worked out with everyone moving the capital one way or the other from what I remember.
It was certainly interesting the start.
You had plain hills for production. The option of 4 food resources. Also the silver option if you moved the scout right.
I dont see anyone rushing SB anytime soon unless you knock out quite a few HA. Real chance to see a peaceful starting strategy. The rathaus will make rexing easier.
It was quite interesting dealing with the barbs really. GW obvious but many dont think enough about fog busting. 4-5 warriors can save so many hammer later.
BTW why are we still using spoilers about the first round??
dualmaster
Emperor
Fogbusting is an incredibly useful skill at higher difficulties - I only recently learned how to do it effectively. It sure is easy to deal with barbs when there aren't any. Of course, on this map there is just so much space that it is difficult to get an effective spawnbust going. That's why the GW seemed like an obvious choice to me. It also lets us build a lot less military so our early production can be focused on settlers/workers and our cities can focus on producing commerce instead of hammers. An added bonus of the GW is that now all the barbs are heading for SB's territory which should slow him down a lot.
@Kossin - did you remove a lot of forests? The map seemed weird with all the open space.
I didn't remove that much, I just made it so anyone wanting a shot at GLH would have to work really hard at it or get lucky with no AI building it
I had alot of trouble with barbs in my game. I even Fogbusted alot of land, but couldn't fogbust enough down SW and archers kinda chewed up my warriors even fortified on forest,hills and forested hills. Guess that's what I get for not going archery or hooking up horses fast enough. Lesson learned.
I really liked the layout of the map so far. I just couldn't see chopping out the GW with no stone hooked up. I probably lost 5-6 warriors already though. So maybe I should've went this route.
I'll check out the saves tonight and vote later. Although tough seeing anyone beat Dualmaster yet. But will need to look at saves just to be sure.
I really liked the layout of the map so far. I just couldn't see chopping out the GW with no stone hooked up. I probably lost 5-6 warriors already though. So maybe I should've went this route.
I'll check out the saves tonight and vote later. Although tough seeing anyone beat Dualmaster yet. But will need to look at saves just to be sure.
I didn't remove that much, I just made it so anyone wanting a shot at GLH would have to work really hard at it or get lucky with no AI building it
Did you try a test game trying to build it??? You can never be too sure.
MaximumPain
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 158
Why the hatred for the GLH? Its a good wonder but only if you can make lots of coastal cities and leverage the other trade tecs/buildings along with good over seas contact. I hardly think its a game breaker at least on a map like this. Or am I missing something here?
Yea and I did manage it so I fixed a few things.
See the last 2 Cookbooks. It's to learn new approaches. Given the amount of land available, it would be quite strong on this map.
1st place: Gumbolt
I must say I'm impressed with the ambition, when you attempt to crash the economy you really go all out. I don't think you should have a problem getting mids on emperor unless you're unlucky. With rep and once you get some more workers up and about it should be a very strong position. On an off topic note I found it rather amusing that the great wall appears to visually only be protecting about 3 tiles, and this is meant to discourage barbs from entering 
2nd place: Dualmaster
Stonhenge, greatwall, strong tech rate, a powerful all around save. I would like to get the copper hooked up soon however as the gw isn't going to help if we declared on.
3rd place: Ambro
Decent tech rate, expansion and fogbusting.
I must say I'm impressed with the ambition, when you attempt to crash the economy you really go all out
. I don't think you should have a problem getting mids on emperor unless you're unlucky. With rep and once you get some more workers up and about it should be a very strong position. On an off topic note I found it rather amusing that the great wall appears to visually only be protecting about 3 tiles, and this is meant to discourage barbs from entering 2nd place: Dualmaster
Stonhenge, greatwall, strong tech rate, a powerful all around save. I would like to get the copper hooked up soon however as the gw isn't going to help if we declared on.
3rd place: Ambro
Decent tech rate, expansion and fogbusting.
pigswill
fly (one day)
I have to to admit that I'm not keen on early wonders (Gwall and SH) because of GP pollution. Maybe I'm superstitious but if I have a 10% chance of a Great Spy and a 90% chance of a Great Scientist I'm guaranteed to get the Great Spy.
Fogbusting is certainly possible on this map, you just have to build the units instead of other stuff (wonders, workers and settlers).
Fogbusting is certainly possible on this map, you just have to build the units instead of other stuff (wonders, workers and settlers).
MaximumPain
Warlord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2008
- Messages
- 158
The tech stealing capabilities of a great spy and some regular spies is pretty good. I just tried it out in another game and robbed like 3 techs over time with it (and I still have more points left). I'm looking forward to getting some more face time with the espionage system so this will be good. Also with my barbarian troubles the great wall seems to be an excellent wonder for this situation.
I want to wait to vote until tonight as I don't have my notes or access to the saves here. I was going to vote last night but had a slight domestic situation and was unable to log on and look at the more recent saves. If you feel the need to go on with out my vote go ahead otherwise I should have it in by 10:30 CST tonight. Thanks for your patience.
I want to wait to vote until tonight as I don't have my notes or access to the saves here. I was going to vote last night but had a slight domestic situation and was unable to log on and look at the more recent saves. If you feel the need to go on with out my vote go ahead otherwise I should have it in by 10:30 CST tonight. Thanks for your patience.
Azuolas, MJG5591, Me, Maximum Pain and Pigswill left to vote.
Pending on how Lymond intended on voting there 2-3 points in this. You cant give 2 saves 3 points . I would assume you meant 1 point for Duelmaster due to your list order?
I think the late entry saves should be considered as shadows but please do look at and critique these if you have time.
Round will close 6pm tomorrow or tonight if 2-3 more votes come in.
Pending on how Lymond intended on voting there 2-3 points in this. You cant give 2 saves 3 points
. I would assume you meant 1 point for Duelmaster due to your list order? I think the late entry saves should be considered as shadows but please do look at and critique these if you have time.
Round will close 6pm tomorrow or tonight if 2-3 more votes come in.
IMHO archery is not a dead end here, with horses so close.
A good pack of HAs could be good. Then again, I didn't check where the neighbours are and it may very well be useless.
I didn't see copper, but I may be mistaken.
If there isn't any copper around, and you wish to kill a neighbour, HBR could be good.
A good pack of HAs could be good. Then again, I didn't check where the neighbours are and it may very well be useless.
I didn't see copper, but I may be mistaken.
If there isn't any copper around, and you wish to kill a neighbour, HBR could be good.
