Check your privileges

[Lexicus]

And then there are fires that are so big that it doesn't matter who is rich and gets service first and who doesn't. There are hundreds of forest fires burning in British Columbia now (province next to mine, to the west). Tens of thousands of people - rich and poor - have been displaced. Whole communities have been burned to the ground, literally. When a wall of fire jumps the highway, creek, or even a whole mountain ridge and you've got 5 minutes to grab your family and hopefully your pets and run for it, your income really doesn't matter. The fire certainly doesn't care if it burns a million-dollar home or a cheap trailer.

The smoke from that fire is causing visibility and breathing problems here in Alberta, too. I'm coughing from it, and I daresay the smoke doesn't care if a wealthy person is also coughing from it, if both of us have respiratory issues.

This is a good point, but simply replace "the global south" with "poor neighborhood" and metalhead's point stands. There is the added wrinkle that even as global warming makes these kinds of fires more likely, people in poor countries are emitting tiny fractions of the carbon emitted by those of us living in rich countries. As El_Mach often points out this consumption of the carbon buffer by the people in the rich countries is essentially theft.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Theft is a crime. In order for something to be theft, it has to be illegal. Disproportionate carbon emission is not illegal, so it can not be theft. It makes sense that it might feel like theft to some people, but again, just because something feels like theft doesn't mean it is theft.

 

[Lexicus]

Theft is a crime. In order for something to be theft, it has to be illegal. Disproportionate carbon emission is not illegal, so it can not be theft. It makes sense that it might feel like theft to some people, but again, just because something feels like theft doesn't mean it is theft.

It is pretty sad that you've presumably lived for multiple decades and still haven't grasped the difference between morality and legality.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Tee hee

 

[Terxpahseyton]

It is pretty much impossible to have a full-time job in one of the rich countries and not belong to the global top 10%. That is some privilege.
According to this site I found (https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/)
Arbeitslosengeld II, which are the German unemployment benefits every citizen is entitled to (though it comes with some responsibilities), still puts you in the global top 15%.
Now due to things being more expensive and different social norms etcetera things aren't just quit as shiny as those numbers suggest, but they kinda also are, I guess.

 

[bernie14]

No I don't and you can't make me!

If your house catches fire and your local fire department has much faster response times because you live in a wealthy neighborhood (socio-economic privilege, but tends to track race), it actually will be less on fire compared to the poor bastard whose house catches fire in a neighborhood nobody cares about.

That such a thought brings one no solace, and would probably anger someone who just had their possessions catch fire, doesn't make it any less true. The point of acknowledging one's privileged place in society shouldn't be about guilt, or about making people feel lucky or fortunate, but rather to bring about recognition that there are millions of people who face totally artificial barriers in life based on the color of their skin and their socio-economic status.

im not sure about this whole "just recognition" thing.... sure, we are all pretty self involved but I think that the vast majority of people generally count their blessings...the beef seems to be not with those that do not recognize their privilege but, in the mind set of certain political ideologies, actively maintain the, as you say, artificial barriers. so it's more about a call for wealth redistribution than anything else

If the fire company will get to my house in 3 minutes, but won't get to the other guy's house for 15 or 20 minutes, then we should all want to make it so the other guy's fire department will get there in as close to 3 minutes as is practicable. You can reduce my privilege without making me any worse off.

how do we do that? increase resources?, decrease population? or is this "privilege" only some false sense of superiority?

It is pretty sad that you've presumably lived for multiple decades and still haven't grasped the difference between morality and legality.

seems rather irresponsible that you have discovered the answer to the moral question of right and wrong and have not shared it with the rest of the world

It is pretty much impossible to have a full-time job in one of the rich countries and not belong to the global top 10%. That is some privilege.
According to this site I found (https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/get-involved/how-rich-am-i/)
Arbeitslosengeld II, which are the German unemployment benefits every citizen is entitled to (though it comes with some responsibilities), still puts you in the global top 15%.
Now due to things being more expensive and different social norms etcetera things aren't just quit as shiny as those numbers suggest, but they kinda also are, I guess.

, capitalism

 

[rah]

I scored 70 out of 100 but feel much more privileged than that.
White heterosexual male
6"2
Highly educated.
Only bullied because I was a geek when I was younger. so doesn't really count.
Slim
full head of dark hair
My parents weren't rich, but wealthy. I can claim the same.
Good communication skills.
Not great looking but not butt ugly either.

As a result I was always selected for leadership positions.
What's not to like. Quite privileged and not ashamed of it.
But quite aware of it and try to make up for it with others less so.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The realities of "fire protection privilege."

People who are poor or middle class do not build palatial estates up in the canyons, they buy tract houses in the flatlands. Their property taxes pay for the extra firefighters that are needed to maintain regular service when as much as 60% of their local fire department responds to brush fire season, which doesn't actually affect them. Those firefighters from the flatlands are paid 24 hours a day to leave their area and go protect the homes in the path of the fires, and that overtime pay comes from disaster funds that, again, are mostly paid by the people in the flatlands rather than the wealthy people who's homes are being protected.

Make no mistake, fire protection is one of the most blatant economic privileges there is.

 

[Lexicus]

seems rather irresponsible that you have discovered the answer to the moral question of right and wrong and have not shared it with the rest of the world

Actually, it was understood thousands of years ago that it is "wrong" to destroy other people's property.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

But not banks' property of course.

 

[metalhead]

im not sure about this whole "just recognition" thing.... sure, we are all pretty self involved but I think that the vast majority of people generally count their blessings...the beef seems to be not with those that do not recognize their privilege but, in the mind set of certain political ideologies, actively maintain the, as you say, artificial barriers. so it's more about a call for wealth redistribution than anything else

how do we do that? increase resources?, decrease population? or is this "privilege" only some false sense of superiority?

Counting one's blessings is not quite the same thing as recognizing privilege, but you're right in the end that the struggle, as it were, is with people who use their position of privilege to, not just maintain it, but hoard it so that others have less opportunity to get ahead. Economically this means redistribution to cure the horrendous maldistribution that occurs currently. But it also means correcting for the effects racial prejudice have on communities of color. This certainly involves more equitable distribution of things like education and infrastructure dollars, but also involves solutions to housing discrimination, redlining, discriminating on credit decisions, etc.

We can't pretend that equality is a thing we value if we don't act like it. That's what is really at the heart of discussions about privilege. Very few people believe that with wealth, there oughtn't be benefits. I just think we can and should strive for a much better balance between privilege for the wealthy and opportunity for everyone else than what we currently have now, which is the privileged actually erecting more barriers to people of lower socio-economic status.

 

[bernie14]

Actually, it was understood thousands of years ago that it is "wrong" to destroy other people's property.

that’s way to absolutist for me

 

[rah]

We can't pretend that equality is a thing we value if we don't act like it. That's what is really at the heart of discussions about privilege. Very few people believe that with wealth, there oughtn't be benefits. I just think we can and should strive for a much better balance between privilege for the wealthy and opportunity for everyone else than what we currently have now, which is the privileged actually erecting more barriers to people of lower socio-economic status.

A previous version of our company (before our french overlords bought us)
opened a call center in a reasonably affluent suburb of Chicago. Due to that affluence we had problems staffing it up. But we can up with a fantastic solution. We reached out to the community that was being discriminated against, the Gay Community. This was almost 20 years ago when this was a bigger issue. We offered them a bit more than we were generally offering and ended up with over 80% of our call center being staffed by the gay community. Talk about a WIN WIN. We got the most dedicated work force for just a little more cost. And the outgoing personality of a lot of them is perfect for survey research phone reps. Many other groups protested what we had done but we were a big employer not just there but in other areas so we were able to put our privilege to good use. But the funniest thing was watching some of our old time managers forced to accept the new reality. To their honor, most adapted and actually learned to appreciate their work force. A few though just couldn't go along and eventually quit.

 

[Lexicus]

that’s way to absolutist for me

Let that be a lesson to you: try to speak to liberals in their own tongue, only to find out they have no principles.

 

[bernie14]

Counting one's blessings is not quite the same thing as recognizing privilege, but you're right in the end that the struggle, as it were, is with people who use their position of privilege to, not just maintain it, but hoard it so that others have less opportunity to get ahead. Economically this means redistribution to cure the horrendous maldistribution that occurs currently. But it also means correcting for the effects racial prejudice have on communities of color. This certainly involves more equitable distribution of things like education and infrastructure dollars, but also involves solutions to housing discrimination, redlining, discriminating on credit decisions, etc.

We can't pretend that equality is a thing we value if we don't act like it. That's what is really at the heart of discussions about privilege. Very few people believe that with wealth, there oughtn't be benefits. I just think we can and should strive for a much better balance between privilege for the wealthy and opportunity for everyone else than what we currently have now, which is the privileged actually erecting more barriers to people of lower socio-economic status.

well then, the trick seems to be how do we decide who gets what? are these hoarders just evil people or is it an illness? is the current "condition" due to human nature or the nature of our institutions (thanks @Traitorfish)? so many questions..... when you say that the privileged are erecting more barriers, are you implying that things are getting worse?? and what time frame are you using.

Let that be a lesson to you: try to speak to liberals in their own tongue, only to find out they have no principles.

I am very happy that you can take comfort in being so superior

 

[Timsup2nothin]

well then, the trick seems to be how do we decide who gets what?

I wish I'd been outside and looking the right direction to see the blinding flash when you came up with this one, Captain Obvious!

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I'm white, German with a Hebrew/Czech name yet I still have been asked if I am an ISIS affiliate. Now the question is: Am I doing something really wrong or really, really right?

That BuzzFeed quizz really got my blood boiling. Sometimes I honestly think Anglo-Saxons are an entirely different species from all other humans. As an American oneself probably doesn't notice just how Ameri-centric that particular quiz is.

It's hilarious, really. BuzzFeed is trying to be this beacon of progressiveness yet never fails to be biased as <snip>. Another example: There are at least 10 questions obviously hinting at Homosexuals/Transsexuals being persecuted for their sexual orientation, but I didn't see anything about bisexuals. Honestly, if you live in western/central Europe the chances that you're being mistreated for being bisexual are close to zero.

Yet it still feels like in this quiz you are either a heterosex WASP or a multi-identity pansexual otherkin (of color). The Black and White ( ) view of the author really shows when one is examining the questions.

Moderator Action: Please don't evade the auto-censor. - Vincour
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Terxpahseyton]

, capitalism

Capitalism mostdev deserves a thanks for that.
But among other things (like social/political struggles) there is also something I shall call geo-segregation.
So segregation

 

[Peuri]

I was sitting on a bus the other day, having to listen to a fresh-out-of-highschool-female going on and on, quite loudly in a full bus, about her latest month long trip to Europe, and how she was about a third grader when she had first gone alone to Barcelona on some children's camp. She was headed to her friend's fancy wedding, after which she would go sailing with another friend's family for a few weeks after that. To top it off, she gleefully chided, how happy she was on the state of her life, and how she was thankful of how SHE had made the right decisions on life to be where she was. All I could think of was "check your priviledge".

I guess that is what if feels like hearing me bang on about how great it is being a white young european heterosexual cis-male and flaunt my priviledge in their face. Oh yeah, I don't do that.

 

[Terxpahseyton]

Well she clearly is on an ego-high. I feel your distaste, but I also have a hard time to fault her for diving full into it. Cause it is a great high. I guess what I am in on faulting her for is her phony "thankfulness". Thankfulness implies humbleness. Without it, it is a thin disguise of gloating. And to gloat without shame and top it of with false humbleness. That is a bit much lack of self-awareness. A bit much self-appreciating. She won't settle for self-appreciating her. She also needs to self-appreciate herself for self-appreciating herself. Meta-dick-strike! Knock-down