Chess Separated male and female, why?

[warpus]

Your score in shooting is the same regardless of who you're competing against, although it's possible to use the presence of other people to improve it. Your score in a chess tournament, obviously, depends on the people against whom you play. I should clarify that when I said 'world cup' I meant 'whatever the highest competition in chess is'.

Ah, I see what you mean.

It seems to me then that one of the benefits of making chess tournaments co-ed then is giving women better competition to play against - making them better chess players in the long run.

And not just because men are better, it's just that so many more play. So if you go to a dude's chess tournament, you're likely to come against better opposition at some point.

 

[Borachio]

The trouble with chess, though, is that you don't really get better by competitively playing against opponents who are massively better at it than you are.

You just waste your own time, and theirs.

You improve your game by playing people who are better, but not much better.

 

[H4run]

but if women and men are separated for sport like basketball, soccer, or say shooting match, isn't it because all those sports that is mention are more physical than cognitive? it is quite fair to say that average women are physically much weaker and less muscular than males.

However chess is a sport that use cognitive skill. If it is the fact that there are more good males player than say females player than isn't there must be a reason for that?

If the reason is social factor, isn't separating male and female also supporting one of the social factor that makes males chess player are much more and mostly better than female?

if the reason is cognitive factor, I think I cannot accept that. Lets say if chess tournament is united, and one of the top 3 world grand master is a female, isn't it encourage more females to participate to chess? as chess is not the game that only males good at it?

Just a thought, I might be wrong though.

 

[Akka]

Having said that, I do understand the want for female-only competitions, since not many women get into the hobby. It would probably discourage more women to get involved, if they show up at such a competition, and it's all dudes.

That's an argument I really don't understand. Why a woman would feel discouraged by being surrounded with dudes (or the opposite, really) ?
I thought that games/sports competitions were about being better than your opponent, not a gender war.

 

[Kozmos]

Maybe we can digitally model a brain based on a random woman, turn it into an AI and then have it beat all the chess grandmasters by playing them all at once. Social justice warriors will rejoice all over and finally the patriarchy will be extinguished.

 

[Perfection]

Really sorry I think I'm confuse. Aren't you a female?

Focus on my argument, not my sex, please.

Do you agree that an 8 year old boy is more likely to play chess with his peers then a girl?

That's an argument I really don't understand. Why a woman would feel discouraged by being surrounded with dudes (or the opposite, really) ?

What kind of girl wants to hang out with a jillion dorky guys?

 

[metatron]

But this way a woman couldn't be the best chess player in the world, which kind of sucks. I say, if a woman can beat the best men in the field, she should be able to have a crack at it.

Having said that, I do understand the want for female-only competitions, since not many women get into the hobby. It would probably discourage more women to get involved, if they show up at such a competition, and it's all dudes.

There is no restriction on female chess players participating in "men's" events or hold "men's" titles.
A fair number of them do:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_chess_players

Also: #8 sounds close enough to me to entertain the notion of a female WC as entirely possible.

But, yeah it's curious that Western men do quite well for themselves while virtually all top female players were born into one of them Eastern evil, bad, mra, women-are-not-made-of-sugar cultures.
Some coincidence...

 

[Flying Pig]

You mean one of those Eastern 'chess as a political weapon and a way of life' countries?

 

[Borachio]

That's an argument I really don't understand. Why a woman would feel discouraged by being surrounded with dudes (or the opposite, really) ?
I thought that games/sports competitions were about being better than your opponent, not a gender war.

How would you feel if your favoured activity was dominated by women?

As a mature adult it might not bother you at all. But for an adolescent? That would seem to be another issue entirely.

It takes a brave man, like Billy Elliot, to persevere.

 

[Flying Pig]

That's an argument I really don't understand. Why a woman would feel discouraged by being surrounded with dudes (or the opposite, really) ?
I thought that games/sports competitions were about being better than your opponent, not a gender war.

Taking part in a sport isn't just about what happens between the two whistles, as it were. Put another way, can you imagine that a young man interested in sports would choose rugby over netball purely because he liked the game?

 

[Manfred Belheim]

What kind of girl wants to hang out with a jillion dorky guys?

A dorky, chess-loving girl?

 

[metatron]

You mean one of those Eastern 'chess as a political weapon and a way of life' countries?

It's one sentence. I expect you to keep track of the contents of one sentence.

Do you agree that an 8 year old boy is more likely to play chess with his peers then a girl?

When i was like a tween one of my main training partners, who was a few years older, held all sorts of Lower Saxon "boys"/unisex titles.

Well, anecdotal evidence.

Edit: Yeah, she was girl. I sorta forgot to say that.

That's an argument I really don't understand. Why a woman would feel discouraged by being surrounded with dudes (or the opposite, really) ?
I thought that games/sports competitions were about being better than your opponent, not a gender war.

The cultural norms and context of the nations that rank at the very bottom among OECD countries in terms of gender equality really are universal throughout the developed world.
You should have already known that.
Anyway, you may be "educated" in this thread by our resident experts.

Don't argue. For if you do, you must be a rape apologist.

How would you feel if your favoured activity was dominated by women?

As a mature adult it might not bother you at all. But for an adolescent? That would seem to be another issue entirely.

It takes a brave man, like Billy Elliot, to persevere.

Wouldn't Bridge be a more apt equivalent (at least as far as the amateur player base is concerned)?

But sure, why not move the goal posts a little...

What kind of girl wants to hang out with a jillion dorky guys?

 

[Akka]

How would you feel if your favoured activity was dominated by women?

As a mature adult it might not bother you at all. But for an adolescent? That would seem to be another issue entirely.

Actually I would like it. I even often lament about the lack of women in most of my prefered activities

Taking part in a sport isn't just about what happens between the two whistles, as it were. Put another way, can you imagine that a young man interested in sports would choose rugby over netball purely because he liked the game?

I suppose you meant "netball over rugby", 'cause the other way wouldn't really carry a point ^^
Can't really answer 'cause I never even heard about netball until your post, so I can't really have any perception in any way about it. But I don't see how the fact a game is dominated by one particular sex would deter people of the other - unless there is actually a large biological disparity in performances, which is why most sports have gendered competitions. But for non-physical games ? Sorry, don't see the problem.

 

[Narz]

Women probably have the potential to play chess as well as men, I suspect most don't have the obsessive nature to get good enough to play on the top level.

I run scholastic tournaments & see absolutely no different between boys & girls. The last event I ran the top two contenders (playing each other on board 1) were both female.

Having separate women's titles is an insult to women. I respect Alisa Melekhina for instance for using the title FIDE Master instead of Women's International Master.

Which I found it quite untrue, also an argument like male players are more aggressive than female, Irina Krush is a great player and she is quite an attacker.

Fun tangent, I was quite high at a party & mistook a woman for Irina Krush & started speaking to her. I ended up dating her for a short while a few months after this incident (in the light of day she didn't look much like Irina, was cuter than her actually).

 

[warpus]

That's an argument I really don't understand. Why a woman would feel discouraged by being surrounded with dudes (or the opposite, really) ?
I thought that games/sports competitions were about being better than your opponent, not a gender war.

It would make them feel that what they're about to engage in is.. what's a good way to say this.. not really for their kind? Or at least they might feel out of place?

If you show up to some event, and it's all black guys, and you're the only white guy.. wouldn't you feel slightly out of place? Just to use another example. Or say it's all Russians and you're an Argentinian.

And I'm really just hypothesizing, I have no idea if it makes some women feel like that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Olympic events are the same way. What possible difference does it make if a curling contestant is male or female?

Autocrossing has traditionally had female classes to help bolster attendance. I once talked one of the top women autocrossers into competing in the open division after she was invariably the overall women's champion at Pro Solos. She never won in the open division, but she did quite well.

 

[dusters]

Okay. So i have graduated a chess school and I'm a girl. I played chess profesionally from age 11 to 16.

The thing is - women are just overall "dumber" at chess. Judith Polgar, the best female player in the world got crushed by top25 world male players during tourneys in 1990s.

The women Grand master title is about as equal as Fide master for men. However, the elo rating system is what shows the difference the best.

A female GM can have an ELO of 2300, while male GM usually has ELO of 2500+. It's been like this historically and is widely accepted as normal in this sport.

 

[JollyRoger]

As a MRA, I cannot stand chess since the one obviously female piece is given so much more power than the other pieces.

 

[Hygro]

Okay. So i have graduated a chess school and I'm a girl. I played chess profesionally from age 11 to 16.

The thing is - women are just overall "dumber" at chess. Judith Polgar, the best female player in the world got crushed by top25 world male players during tourneys in 1990s.

The women Grand master title is about as equal as Fide master for men. However, the elo rating system is what shows the difference the best.

A female GM can have an ELO of 2300, while male GM usually has ELO of 2500+. It's been like this historically and is widely accepted as normal in this sport.

So in addition to Flying Pig's argument I would like to also cite stereotype threat

 

[Narz]

The thing is - women are just overall "dumber" at chess. Judith Polgar, the best female player in the world got crushed by top25 world male players during tourneys in 1990s.

Judith Polgar is not all women. Most CFCers are probably not aware but Judith was one of the famous Polgar sisters who were raised from childhood to be chess beasts.

In a way it's a shame Lazlo didn't have at least one boy (or adopt those boys later in life), it would be interesting to see if he would have been stronger than his sisters (not that such a small sample size would've necessarily proven anything).

The point is, almost no other women at the time got such intensive training from such an early age. The fact that she reached #25 in the world, if anything, speaks to the abilities of women, not their disabilities. IMO.