China and Taiwan
- Thread starter DingBat
- Start date
Headline
The King of Fighters
Yeah, Taiwanese culture is extremely influenced by Japan and Bushido
example: Lee Tang-Hui, the former president of ROC talked about Taiwanese should be learning Bushido again. Many older generation of Taiwanese love Japan. The young genration of Taiwanese now mimic Japanese pop culture. (I know it's not "How to use swords." I was making sarcasm)
Did I said: "Sun Yet Son blah blah never happen???"
You are real and you are funny doesn't sum up to you are real funny. You might be fake funny, but you are real. You understand??
Sorry for misled people. One can use nicer way to tell me that, not using stupid sarcasm.
I don't do nationalism. I hate people cheering up for US when 911 happened. US should be aware that, when they attack other people, there are to be opposite reactions. The death of those who died in 911 is all US government's fault, but the fault is for the sake of freedom.
Taiwanese culture is the real chinese culture. Taiwanese culture is also heavily influenced by Japan. Why am I backing out from the statement?
If you believe it's not so simple to wipe out an culture, that is okay with me. I believe it did happen, and the one PRC is having now is the reinvented (to calm those China lover, I use a positive word)
Yes
Yes, it's the real one. (It does not say if the PRC is real or not. Real has a really broad meaning)
Headline
The King of Fighters
I am sorry if you anyone mistakenly think that I mean "Soviet style"s" include". I was thinking more of "Soviet style contain characteristics such as "No Freedom of Speech and Rights." One who is smart should realize that no one can own an characteristic. What I am saying is that Soviet style is the sum of those charateristics. We all know that Hitler's facist government is centralized too.
Communists wanted to abolish national boundary. Where is the national pride come from?
exclusive? Here you go again. Making a trap for me to jump down??
There can be a different characteristic combinations, but the combination I wrote down is the general combination I think the Soviet had.
At least, US doesn't go nuts about national pride except after 911 and during olympics (intended for nations to compete)
go nuts (frenzy).
Yes, I know some people will attack me by saying "Oh, there are a lot of national pride in the cold war era." At least, we don't see Soviet Embassy got jacked for several time. I am making sure pp don't attack me for saying that.
is there some meaning in the story?? Another stupid sarcasm??
Please tell me the main point. Americans are captialist. No money they can gain from the commies, so they are upset, especially when the commies were saying "We will bury you."
Damn hollywood. Why do you have to be so real??? Make Russian look so stupid??? It's easy for people to get on the meteor. We don't need astronuts anymore. We just need plumbers.
It's funny that they make it that way. I do think it's offensive. I don't like the movie.
Apparently, the movie doesn't sell like the Titanic. It is also rated F as a movie by several movie critics. I personally think the movie sucks. I guess the movie was made for those veterens.
Why do I feel like defending American value here when everything is not so "general". Why do I have to defend American value when I didn't say "exclusive"? Why do I have to defend American value when we all know America is not perfect and there is no such thing as utopia. Why can's muppet just talk normally like ordinary people. (or is he human?)
This chart is meant to give people my version of how much each characteristic US an Soviet shows. (Make sure again. This is the comparison of overall average exhibits of the characteristic from time of the creation of USSR to the end)
No 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Very extreme (A=US, S=Soviet)
MP A=3 S=10
CG A=4 S=10
DP A=I have no idea S=10
NFSR A=2 S=10
MP = Massive Propaganda CG= Centralized government
DS = Dictatorship in the party NFSR = No freedom of speech and rights
Can you say it's general that US exhibit these characteristics?
I don't think so (you can think so).
(The score is Averaged. It's personal opinion) (I hate to write that every time, but just a precaution so dogs won't attack (People please do criticize me)
*Do you know that dogs won't let go after it's jaw has a piece of the person? And no matter how the person shake its body, the dog just won't let go even if the dog's body is hanging in the midair below the arm of the person?*
I have no idea, but judging from the founding history of US and the modern political system, I believe I can safely say that US politics within a party is not dictated by the one who holds the leadership of the party. (Macain VS Bush) Again, this is an assumption.
does have patriotic feeling. "Free" is an characteristic of American value. Kind of the opposite of communist value.
Due to somebody who doesn't use his brain, I'll use my brain for him. I'll only defend the American value "Freedom." For other stupid claim about "exclusive." Check out my degree chart. You will find US is not so "generally (overall)" contain those characteristics. Soviet, on my list, contain overall those characteristics.
If this is true, I am so sorry. I guess this is why US doesn't get a 0 for NFS
Say no freedom for those who violates Americans' rights. Bombing civilians? I guess Smart Weapon is not smart at all.
I have no idea about that. Media is not pefect after all, or US will get another 0 again. MIT scientist can protest for their rights, or are they so few that nobody care.
This is hard problem to deal with. There are several thousands of people coming to US illegally. Clinton did propose a deal to give all the illegal immagrants, who entered before 1995?, rights, but Al Gore lost. Rights and Freedom can only be applied to US legal residents, or US will be a "Real" communist nation.
Like they have the skill to earn more than the minimum wage. Like they are legally entitle the rights of US residents.
definitly illegal, so there was the LA riot.
Police said: You can stay here without break the door (the property of the other person). If you break the door, I'll arrest you. If you hit me with something, you will be violating my rights, i'll arrest you.
no,,,It should be: Customer is always right, he has money.
Prostitute has no rights to sell their body. I guess this is not free, but absolute freedom is impossible.
Yeah, he is free. The court had determined that there is not enough evidence to convict OJ.
Headline
The King of Fighters
Again
You are real.
You are an ass.
"Therefore (muppet style therefore)"
You are an real ass
But you are not real? You are an real ass, and you don't exist.
and You are not an fake ass? You are definitely an real ass, not fake at all.
Agreed. Logical. Consistent. Critical. Very effective argument.
1+1=2 Correct.
example of muppet's logic
You fokken dog + you love dog = You love fokkeing dog.
Agreed. Logical. Consistent. Critical. Very effective argument.
1+1=2 Correct.
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Headline, you analogy doesn't work.
Because in your analogy, how it *SHOULD* go is :
"You are real."
"You are funny."
Therefore you are real and funny. It is a fault of logic from there to go and say "You are real funny" - BECAUSE YOU CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE "REAL". What would make sense from there on is to say "The real person (there) is funny". Which still remains true without any fault of logic.
Hence
"Taiwan culture is the real chinesse one"
"Taiwan culture is heavily influenced by Japan "
Therefore "Taiwan culture is the real chinesse one and heavily influenced by japan." From that point, just as above "The real person there is funny." saying "The Real chinesse culture is heavily influenced by japan" is the *LOGICAL* conclusion.
Similarly
"The orange is of the same family as the apple."
"The orange is of the fruits family."
Therefore The orange is of the same family as the apple and of the fruits family. Therefore the apples is of the fruit family.
When you have expression A and B both attributing a characteristic to an object or person, `(being the real chinesse culture, being influenced by Japan), then there's no way around admitting that both A and B are true together (Taiwanesse culture is the real chinesse culture and heavily influenced by Japan) and no way, going further, to say that the object in question, possessing quality A (The real chinesse culture, which is taiwanesse culture) also possess quality b (Is heavily influenced by Japan.).
There's no way around it Headline.
Because in your analogy, how it *SHOULD* go is :
"You are real."
"You are funny."
Therefore you are real and funny. It is a fault of logic from there to go and say "You are real funny" - BECAUSE YOU CHANGE THE MEANING OF THE "REAL". What would make sense from there on is to say "The real person (there) is funny". Which still remains true without any fault of logic.
Hence
"Taiwan culture is the real chinesse one"
"Taiwan culture is heavily influenced by Japan "
Therefore "Taiwan culture is the real chinesse one and heavily influenced by japan." From that point, just as above "The real person there is funny." saying "The Real chinesse culture is heavily influenced by japan" is the *LOGICAL* conclusion.
Similarly
"The orange is of the same family as the apple."
"The orange is of the fruits family."
Therefore The orange is of the same family as the apple and of the fruits family. Therefore the apples is of the fruit family.
When you have expression A and B both attributing a characteristic to an object or person, `(being the real chinesse culture, being influenced by Japan), then there's no way around admitting that both A and B are true together (Taiwanesse culture is the real chinesse culture and heavily influenced by Japan) and no way, going further, to say that the object in question, possessing quality A (The real chinesse culture, which is taiwanesse culture) also possess quality b (Is heavily influenced by Japan.).
There's no way around it Headline.
Headline
The King of Fighters
Man. I really don't agree with the logic in the "real funny" (muppet logic) example. I told you it's wrong. Funny modifies you. Real also modifies you. Real doesn't modify funny. Chinese culture in Taiwan is not equal to the whole Chinese culture.
it should be
"The Chinese culture in Taiwan, which is real, and it (the culture in Taiwan) is heavily influenced by Japan" Not "Real Chinese culture is heavily influenced by Japan"
Again, don't say I didn't apologize. I am sorry about my poor wording. It cause so much confusion.
Yeah. This one has a better logic, but just let you know.
the logic lie with the word "Family"
However:
"Chinese culture in Taiwan is the real one" and
"It is different than the PRC culture"
are not equal to "Chinese culture in Taiwan is real, which is different than the PRC culture" (which modifies the fact that Taiwanese culture is real) but is equal to "Real Chinese culture in Taiwan is different the PRC culture." (doesn't say anything about if PRC culture is real or not) the real modify the Chinese culture in Taiwan. "It", Taiwanese culture is different than PRC one.
I see what you mean. The real Chinese culture can't have Japanese influence??? I believe that the real American culture did have English, French, Japanese, Native American and etc. influences.
Okay, to calm public outrage, I'll write an apology letter.
to be continue........
Headline:
Don't apologize! You are making this very un-fun.
I was hoping you might catch on after the most recent round of sarcasm that I am strictly kidding around. I obviously intended to get a rise out of you, but did not intended to raise your blood pressure. I over did the sarcasm. Got out of surgery last week and have been heavily sedated. One's perception of fun is a little different under the influence of drugs. The internet has been keeping me 'occupied' for the last week-- I refuse to watch stupid TV programs.
I apologize.
While I don't necessarily agree with your logic, I am not really out to hang you either. I was hoping that a sarcastic approach, and the ease of which it is to point flaws at the logic, might make it easier to consider that the proposed rationale may not be entirely accurate.
If it makes you feel any better, I personally support Taiwanese Independence. I think Dingbat has put it quite well, in summary: existing and prolonged state of independence and no historic governance from the Mainland. Which, IMO, severally and mutually, are worthy reasons for Taiwan to become 'officially' independent.
I and others have also pointed out that this is a 'family affair' between the two China's. As a worse case scenario, as another poster has described, it is a matter of an unresolved 'civil war'; therefore, neither the responsibility nor the 'business' of other world powers.
Oda has clarified the historic UN position, there is 1 China. And the current UN position, the 1 China is Beijing. As Knight Dragon, and others have pointed out, there are practical problems that the rest of the world has to consider. Each geographic or political region will have their own political agendas. The decision of the world will undoubtedly consider more than the number of lives that will be affected in Taiwan. This is (un)fortunate for the people of Taiwan if the World's governments side with China. I can easily imagine how people born in a 'democracy' will feel about being absorbed by the PRC. In practical terms, regarding the quality of life that an individual in Taiwan can expect, I don't think it is quite as bad as our worst nightmares. Ironically, it may even improve. This may be why resistance to assimilatin is not stronger in Taiwan.
On this visit, I was originally going to post a prepared and very sarcastic description of Taiwan vs. China culture, but you don't seem to have had much fun with previous material -- I'll have to send it to the recycle bin. It's a shame. I thought it was my most brilliant attempt at humor so far. I obviously need to keep my day job. I will concede or acknowledge, not that anyone needs my stamp of approval, anyone that can not distinguish Mainlander from Taiwanese is not totally Chinese. I personally, can not easily see the difference, but I now many that can.
This is not an agreement that it is possible to distinguish culturally a PRC person from a ROC person -- I am of similar position as Sgrig and Vrylakas, and believe that manner of governance has not a great effect on a people's desire in the matter of culture. It is acknowldgement that there are cultural differences between people born and raised in Taiwan compared to people born and raised in China. That these differences are relatively hidden; sometimes trivial, attributable to government, or a means to survival, and not easy to distinguish for most non-Chinese. It is probably painfully obvious by now that I believe there are more and stronger cultural similarities between the two than there are differences.
I am very suprised that to this date, you have not brought up the difference between the spoken language in Taiwan and most of the Mainland. Others have said to me that it is distinguishable. How a language is spoken, because the way of speaking is hereditary (used very loosely), IMO, has a lot more to say about how and where, a people come from, their starting population make-up, and ultimately, the roots from which they begin independent development, than the choice of government. Is it not odd that the 'original' Chinese settlers to Taiwan were from, IIRC, somewhere around the Hokkien area, but today's language is Mandarin? That both China's chose Mandarin? Or that the Mandarin spoken throughout Taiwan is 'Royal' or 'Stately', as opposed to 'Common' or 'Ordinary'.
I don't know much about anything 'Chinese'. What are your thoughts?
Why do you believe a Mainlander (or communist) is 'ignorant' or maybe 'less intelligent'. My personal experiences in China suggest otherwise. I think they're pretty darn crafty.
What do you perceive as 'clear' cultural differences between Mainlander and Taiwanese?
What do you think the 'people' of Taiwan will do if China threatens the world with something as simple as trade? For that matter, what do you think the world will do?
What is the current status of Taiwan's military? Can it defend itself from aggression by China?
Do you believe that this 'fight' is the world's fight? Do you believe the world 'owes' Taiwan a defence?
Edit: Spelling mistakes. Probably still more.
Don't apologize! You are making this very un-fun.
I was hoping you might catch on after the most recent round of sarcasm that I am strictly kidding around. I obviously intended to get a rise out of you, but did not intended to raise your blood pressure. I over did the sarcasm. Got out of surgery last week and have been heavily sedated. One's perception of fun is a little different under the influence of drugs. The internet has been keeping me 'occupied' for the last week-- I refuse to watch stupid TV programs.
I apologize.
While I don't necessarily agree with your logic, I am not really out to hang you either. I was hoping that a sarcastic approach, and the ease of which it is to point flaws at the logic, might make it easier to consider that the proposed rationale may not be entirely accurate.
If it makes you feel any better, I personally support Taiwanese Independence. I think Dingbat has put it quite well, in summary: existing and prolonged state of independence and no historic governance from the Mainland. Which, IMO, severally and mutually, are worthy reasons for Taiwan to become 'officially' independent.
I and others have also pointed out that this is a 'family affair' between the two China's. As a worse case scenario, as another poster has described, it is a matter of an unresolved 'civil war'; therefore, neither the responsibility nor the 'business' of other world powers.
Oda has clarified the historic UN position, there is 1 China. And the current UN position, the 1 China is Beijing. As Knight Dragon, and others have pointed out, there are practical problems that the rest of the world has to consider. Each geographic or political region will have their own political agendas. The decision of the world will undoubtedly consider more than the number of lives that will be affected in Taiwan. This is (un)fortunate for the people of Taiwan if the World's governments side with China. I can easily imagine how people born in a 'democracy' will feel about being absorbed by the PRC. In practical terms, regarding the quality of life that an individual in Taiwan can expect, I don't think it is quite as bad as our worst nightmares. Ironically, it may even improve. This may be why resistance to assimilatin is not stronger in Taiwan.
On this visit, I was originally going to post a prepared and very sarcastic description of Taiwan vs. China culture, but you don't seem to have had much fun with previous material -- I'll have to send it to the recycle bin. It's a shame. I thought it was my most brilliant attempt at humor so far. I obviously need to keep my day job. I will concede or acknowledge, not that anyone needs my stamp of approval, anyone that can not distinguish Mainlander from Taiwanese is not totally Chinese. I personally, can not easily see the difference, but I now many that can.
This is not an agreement that it is possible to distinguish culturally a PRC person from a ROC person -- I am of similar position as Sgrig and Vrylakas, and believe that manner of governance has not a great effect on a people's desire in the matter of culture. It is acknowldgement that there are cultural differences between people born and raised in Taiwan compared to people born and raised in China. That these differences are relatively hidden; sometimes trivial, attributable to government, or a means to survival, and not easy to distinguish for most non-Chinese. It is probably painfully obvious by now that I believe there are more and stronger cultural similarities between the two than there are differences.
I am very suprised that to this date, you have not brought up the difference between the spoken language in Taiwan and most of the Mainland. Others have said to me that it is distinguishable. How a language is spoken, because the way of speaking is hereditary (used very loosely), IMO, has a lot more to say about how and where, a people come from, their starting population make-up, and ultimately, the roots from which they begin independent development, than the choice of government. Is it not odd that the 'original' Chinese settlers to Taiwan were from, IIRC, somewhere around the Hokkien area, but today's language is Mandarin? That both China's chose Mandarin? Or that the Mandarin spoken throughout Taiwan is 'Royal' or 'Stately', as opposed to 'Common' or 'Ordinary'.
I don't know much about anything 'Chinese'. What are your thoughts?
Why do you believe a Mainlander (or communist) is 'ignorant' or maybe 'less intelligent'. My personal experiences in China suggest otherwise. I think they're pretty darn crafty.
What do you perceive as 'clear' cultural differences between Mainlander and Taiwanese?
What do you think the 'people' of Taiwan will do if China threatens the world with something as simple as trade? For that matter, what do you think the world will do?
What is the current status of Taiwan's military? Can it defend itself from aggression by China?
Do you believe that this 'fight' is the world's fight? Do you believe the world 'owes' Taiwan a defence?
Edit: Spelling mistakes. Probably still more.
Oda:
You are one very patient man. Quite intelligent as well I am sure. Have you ever served as a peacekeeper?
In fairness, I have taken advantage of the fact that English is not likely Headline's primary written language. I have subjected his words to a cross-examination rather than an examination. It is impossible to argue effectively or logically against a cross-examination in an unfamiliar language.
I am certain if this were re-done in Chinese, my rantings would appear more silly than inconsiderate.
You think I have much of a chance in comedy? Would you hire me for you defence lawyer?
You are one very patient man. Quite intelligent as well I am sure. Have you ever served as a peacekeeper?
In fairness, I have taken advantage of the fact that English is not likely Headline's primary written language. I have subjected his words to a cross-examination rather than an examination. It is impossible to argue effectively or logically against a cross-examination in an unfamiliar language.
I am certain if this were re-done in Chinese, my rantings would appear more silly than inconsiderate.
You think I have much of a chance in comedy? Would you hire me for you defence lawyer?
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
Well ,as for your humor, *I* certainly liked it. Headline seems to have a different opinion though.
And for a lawyer...I dunno, I'd have to need one to decide if you'd do ;-).
And for a lawyer...I dunno, I'd have to need one to decide if you'd do ;-).
sgrig
Comrade
I've got here some information on China's and Taiwan's navies:
Taiwan:
7 modern US-designed Perry class frigates
6 modern French-built Lafayette class frigates
8 30-year old, but quite recently modernised US-built Knox class frigates
7 modernised US-built WW2-era destroyers, now classed as frigates
12 modern large missile boats
2 older missile boats
49 coastal missile boats
9 patrol boats
20 obsolete, US-built, WW2-era, landing/amphibious ships
2 relatively modern diesel subs
2 WW2-era US-built coastal subs
+4 US-build Kidd class destroyers scheduled for delivery in 2003
China:
2 modern Russian-built Sovremennyy class large destroyers
4 Chinese-built destroyers, recently built, but 'obsolete by Western standards'
16 frigates
7 recently-built light frigates
35 older light frigates
58 missile boats
233+ patrol boats
13 quite recent large landing ships (carrying 200-250 troops each)
15 other landing ships
1 nuclear ballistic missile submarine
5 nuclear-powered attack submarines
4 Russian-built Kilo-class diesel subs
1 Chinese built diesel sub
55 Chinese copies of old Soviet Romeo-class patrol subs
Summary
Taiwan: 28 frigates, 63 missile boats, 9 patrol boats, 20 landing ships, 4 submarines
China: 6 destroyers, 16 frigates, 42 light frigates, 58 missile boats, lots of patrol boats, 28 landing ships, 66 submarines
So as you can see, Taiwan's navy is smaller and less capable than China's navy, but one has to take into account, that in case of a military conflict, Taiwanese navy will be backed up by a couple of US Aircraft Carrier battlegroups, which will quickly put the odds against China!
source: World Navies Today
sgrig
Comrade
I got some info on the air forces as well:
Taiwan:
200 F-5 Fighters (I guess it means the US-built 1950's aircraft)
128 King-Kuo (I guess it's a Taiwanese-built fighter)
30 Modern French Mirage-2000 fighters
126 F-16's
Total: 484 combat aircraft (at least 156 modern, capable aircraft - don't know anything about the King Kuo aircraft)
China:
120 H-6 (copy of Soviet Tu-16) bombers (1950's design)
300 Q-5 relatively modern Chinese-built attack fighters
2500 J-6 (copy of Mig-19) fighters (1950's design)
700 J-7 (copy of Mig-21) fighters (1960's design)
50 modern Russian Su-27 fighters
40 modern Russian Su-30 fighters
Total: 3710 combat aircraft (only 90 modern, capable aircraft)
Conclusion: China has a huge number of military aircraft, but most of them are old and obsolete. Probably even without US support Taiwan could put a good fight in the air. With US carrier battlegroups around, Chinese airforce has very few chances, imo.
Taiwan:
200 F-5 Fighters (I guess it means the US-built 1950's aircraft)
128 King-Kuo (I guess it's a Taiwanese-built fighter)
30 Modern French Mirage-2000 fighters
126 F-16's
Total: 484 combat aircraft (at least 156 modern, capable aircraft - don't know anything about the King Kuo aircraft)
China:
120 H-6 (copy of Soviet Tu-16) bombers (1950's design)
300 Q-5 relatively modern Chinese-built attack fighters
2500 J-6 (copy of Mig-19) fighters (1950's design)
700 J-7 (copy of Mig-21) fighters (1960's design)
50 modern Russian Su-27 fighters
40 modern Russian Su-30 fighters
Total: 3710 combat aircraft (only 90 modern, capable aircraft)
Conclusion: China has a huge number of military aircraft, but most of them are old and obsolete. Probably even without US support Taiwan could put a good fight in the air. With US carrier battlegroups around, Chinese airforce has very few chances, imo.
Headline
The King of Fighters
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Headline
does this make sense???
You are real. Your are an ass. "Therefore," you are a real ass.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since muppet apologized and admit that he is a real ass
This letter is nullified. The letter below is purely for fun
***********************************************
I Misled People
Good evening.
This afternoon in this site, from this post, I testified before the PRC Counsel and the People¡¦s jury.
I answered their questions truthfully, including questions about my miswording, questions no American citizen would ever want to answer.
Still, I must take complete responsibility for all my actions, both on-line and offline. And that is why I am speaking to you tonight.
As you know, in a deposition in March, I was asked questions about if real only apply to Taiwanese Chinese culture. While my posts were legally accurate, I did not volunteer information to Muppet¡¦s stupid sarcasm.
Indeed, I did have miswording that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible.
But I told the PRC Counsel today and I say to you now that at no time did I ask muppet to lie, to hide or to make dumb sarcasm or to make up meaningless story.
I know that my public comments and my silence about this matter gave a false impression. I misled people, including even my allies. I deeply regret that.
I can only tell you I was motivated by many factors. First, by a desire to show that real, in my original sentence, says nothing about if other Chinese cultures are real or not, but only apply to Chinese culture in Taiwan.
I was also very concerned about making my points about the difference between the Chinese culture in Taiwan and the Chinese culture in Beijing. The fact that these questions were being asked in a PRC national pride inspired accusation, which has since been muppetfy, was a consideration, too.
In addition, I had real and serious concerns about muppet¡¦s constant threats without the regard of the real logic that began with the lies about my viewpoint 5 days ago ¡V accusation, I might add, about which muppet found no evidences of any truth denying I made over three days ago.
The PRC Counsel moved on to my previous posts and those posts who agree with me, then into my wording. And now my defending words itself is under attacks.
This has gone on too long, cost too much time and hurt too many PRC lovers.
Now, this matter is between me, muppet ¡V the liar with his false claims ¡V and our governments. I must put it right, and I am prepared to do whatever it takes to do so.
Nothing is more important to me personally. But it is good against evil, and I intend to defeat muppet for my freedom of speech. It¡¦s nobody¡¦s business but ours.
Even Communists have private dispute. It is time to stop the pursuit of personal destruction and the prying into my posts and get on with your national life.
Our thread has been distracted by this matter for too long, and I take my responsibility for my part in all of this. That is all I can do.
Now it is time ¡V in fact, it is past time ¡V to move on.
We have important debates to do ¡V real opportunities to seize, real problems to solve, real security matters to face.
And so tonight, I ask you to turn away from the spectacle of the past one week, to repair the fabric of your mental anguish, and to return our attention to original topic and all the friendly debates of the next peaceful week.
Thank you for watching. And good night.
Headline, the king of fighters - August 17, 1998
This is in no way related to Bill Clinton
Originally posted by Headline
does this make sense???
You are real. Your are an ass. "Therefore," you are a real ass.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since muppet apologized and admit that he is a real ass
This letter is nullified. The letter below is purely for fun
***********************************************
I Misled People
Good evening.
This afternoon in this site, from this post, I testified before the PRC Counsel and the People¡¦s jury.
I answered their questions truthfully, including questions about my miswording, questions no American citizen would ever want to answer.
Still, I must take complete responsibility for all my actions, both on-line and offline. And that is why I am speaking to you tonight.
As you know, in a deposition in March, I was asked questions about if real only apply to Taiwanese Chinese culture. While my posts were legally accurate, I did not volunteer information to Muppet¡¦s stupid sarcasm.
Indeed, I did have miswording that was not appropriate. In fact, it was wrong. It constituted a critical lapse in judgment and a personal failure on my part for which I am solely and completely responsible.
But I told the PRC Counsel today and I say to you now that at no time did I ask muppet to lie, to hide or to make dumb sarcasm or to make up meaningless story.
I know that my public comments and my silence about this matter gave a false impression. I misled people, including even my allies. I deeply regret that.
I can only tell you I was motivated by many factors. First, by a desire to show that real, in my original sentence, says nothing about if other Chinese cultures are real or not, but only apply to Chinese culture in Taiwan.
I was also very concerned about making my points about the difference between the Chinese culture in Taiwan and the Chinese culture in Beijing. The fact that these questions were being asked in a PRC national pride inspired accusation, which has since been muppetfy, was a consideration, too.
In addition, I had real and serious concerns about muppet¡¦s constant threats without the regard of the real logic that began with the lies about my viewpoint 5 days ago ¡V accusation, I might add, about which muppet found no evidences of any truth denying I made over three days ago.
The PRC Counsel moved on to my previous posts and those posts who agree with me, then into my wording. And now my defending words itself is under attacks.
This has gone on too long, cost too much time and hurt too many PRC lovers.
Now, this matter is between me, muppet ¡V the liar with his false claims ¡V and our governments. I must put it right, and I am prepared to do whatever it takes to do so.
Nothing is more important to me personally. But it is good against evil, and I intend to defeat muppet for my freedom of speech. It¡¦s nobody¡¦s business but ours.
Even Communists have private dispute. It is time to stop the pursuit of personal destruction and the prying into my posts and get on with your national life.
Our thread has been distracted by this matter for too long, and I take my responsibility for my part in all of this. That is all I can do.
Now it is time ¡V in fact, it is past time ¡V to move on.
We have important debates to do ¡V real opportunities to seize, real problems to solve, real security matters to face.
And so tonight, I ask you to turn away from the spectacle of the past one week, to repair the fabric of your mental anguish, and to return our attention to original topic and all the friendly debates of the next peaceful week.
Thank you for watching. And good night.
Headline, the king of fighters - August 17, 1998
This is in no way related to Bill Clinton
Headline
The King of Fighters
Have fun......no hard feeling.....
I hate people who say it's "Family Matter".
The history shows that foreign nations have interfered with so call "Family Matter" since the Heavenly Nation rebellion (It was foreigners who helped Chin to take back Chin's land.) In the end of Chin Dynasty, foreigners also helped funding Yuan Shi Kai (100 days emperor. The last emperor of China). In the end of Civil War between the Nationalists and the Communists, Soviet and US did support their candidate parties. The transfer of seat in UN from ROC to PRC is also an foreign intervention. And finally, there is PRC going around trying to force other nations to admit ROC is their.
There is no such thing as family matter when there is clearly two family, the ROC and the PRC. ROC people now, don't want to be part of the PRC family, but PRC is trying to have a forced marriage.
When people tasted "freedom", "human rights" and "democracy", it is a nightmare if those quality are to be restricted.
humor us
There are three mainstream language in Taiwan.
The Official Chinese
The Mainnan Chinese
The Hukka Chinese
The Official Chinese in Taiwan is the same as the one in PRC except minor pronounciation differences. PRC people will use language as an excuse to justify the reunion, so I try to avoid that.
I talked to many PR Chinese over the net on some message board. From my experience, they don't believe that they can change the government. They just willing to sit there and waiting for government to get better. They also said that most PR Chinese feel that way. As we know in democratic states, if we don't support what we believe, the law won't automatically change for us, we have to get out and do something. "less intelligent", maybe not, some are pretty smart, but in general, PRC people are less scientific (a civ trait). Their philosophy level is about as equivelent to those who enlightment people who believe in absolutism. (John Locke rock) (This is what happen when a nation skips democracy in the techtree.) I talked to several mainland Chinese. Their ideas about philosophy is absolutely amazing!!!!
PRC teachs it's citizens
Democracy - government is people's
Human rights - the rights for human to live
Freedom - free to do what's neccessary within the laws.
Philosophy
Democracy - under fair election, citizens can choose representatives to represent them in the government.
Human rights - the rights to do anything that does not interfere with other's rights
Freedom - free to do anything
As one can see. They take the translation very literally. I think it has to do with the PRC government.
the most important one : religion.
religon in Taiwan is absolutely crazy. There are temples district from district. Most are Taoist temples. Recently, Taiwanese just started the lottery. Tons people went to the temples hoping that Gods would suggest some numbers. They also use religious leafs, incents, birds, animals to pick numbers. That is just crazy, but we don't see ROC government ban any of those religions.
We all know that most PRC people are atheists. (I don't believe that they really know the logic behind being an atheist, but I think it has to do with the government (S*** culture))
Ban them???
The League of Nation failed to defend Europe from the 3rd Reich. I hope UN doesn't fail to defend Taiwan from PRC, especially those who believe in democracy.
I hate people who say it's "Family Matter".
The history shows that foreign nations have interfered with so call "Family Matter" since the Heavenly Nation rebellion (It was foreigners who helped Chin to take back Chin's land.) In the end of Chin Dynasty, foreigners also helped funding Yuan Shi Kai (100 days emperor. The last emperor of China). In the end of Civil War between the Nationalists and the Communists, Soviet and US did support their candidate parties. The transfer of seat in UN from ROC to PRC is also an foreign intervention. And finally, there is PRC going around trying to force other nations to admit ROC is their.
There is no such thing as family matter when there is clearly two family, the ROC and the PRC. ROC people now, don't want to be part of the PRC family, but PRC is trying to have a forced marriage.
When people tasted "freedom", "human rights" and "democracy", it is a nightmare if those quality are to be restricted.
humor us
There are three mainstream language in Taiwan.
The Official Chinese
The Mainnan Chinese
The Hukka Chinese
The Official Chinese in Taiwan is the same as the one in PRC except minor pronounciation differences. PRC people will use language as an excuse to justify the reunion, so I try to avoid that.
I talked to many PR Chinese over the net on some message board. From my experience, they don't believe that they can change the government. They just willing to sit there and waiting for government to get better. They also said that most PR Chinese feel that way. As we know in democratic states, if we don't support what we believe, the law won't automatically change for us, we have to get out and do something. "less intelligent", maybe not, some are pretty smart, but in general, PRC people are less scientific (a civ trait). Their philosophy level is about as equivelent to those who enlightment people who believe in absolutism. (John Locke rock) (This is what happen when a nation skips democracy in the techtree.) I talked to several mainland Chinese. Their ideas about philosophy is absolutely amazing!!!!
PRC teachs it's citizens
Democracy - government is people's
Human rights - the rights for human to live
Freedom - free to do what's neccessary within the laws.
Philosophy
Democracy - under fair election, citizens can choose representatives to represent them in the government.
Human rights - the rights to do anything that does not interfere with other's rights
Freedom - free to do anything
As one can see. They take the translation very literally. I think it has to do with the PRC government.
the most important one : religion.
religon in Taiwan is absolutely crazy. There are temples district from district. Most are Taoist temples. Recently, Taiwanese just started the lottery. Tons people went to the temples hoping that Gods would suggest some numbers. They also use religious leafs, incents, birds, animals to pick numbers. That is just crazy, but we don't see ROC government ban any of those religions.
We all know that most PRC people are atheists. (I don't believe that they really know the logic behind being an atheist, but I think it has to do with the government (S*** culture))
Ban them???
The League of Nation failed to defend Europe from the 3rd Reich. I hope UN doesn't fail to defend Taiwan from PRC, especially those who believe in democracy.
I don't really wish to wade back into this thread (which BTW shld belong in OT, rather than the History forum) but ........ just what in hell are Mainnan and Hukka Chinese? As someone who speaks Chinese everyday, I'm surely interested in knowing. I think by Hukka, you mean the Hakka dialect but no idea at all about Mainnan.
This topic has become way too off topic, though I do enjoy the sarcasm. Good ones. There is no point to argue if someone just won't admit that they may be wrong.
I guess by Mainnan Chinese Headline means the dialect spoken in Southen Fujian Province. Headline is misleading here because he/she is mixing the language (Chinese) and the dialect (Mainan). Mainnan, Mandarin, Hukka, Cantonese, etc, are all Chinese, but different dialect. Correct me if Mainnan is not the dialect I think it is.
Sgrig,
your data of Chinese AF doesn't include the around 150 J-8 Fighters. More detailed infos of the military forces across the Taiwan straint can be found here,
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/taiwan-crisis.htm
It seems that Taiwan enjoys advantages in navy and air forces. But it would be hard to fight a war if you couldn't keep the weapon supplies.
Headline
The King of Fighters
I told you I'll get attacked. Now, I'll have to use words more carefully.
Read my letter please
Read my letter please
Headline
The King of Fighters
I admit that I may be wrong.
PRC teachs it's citizens
Democracy - People own the government
Human rights - the rights for human to live better.
Freedom - free to do what's neccessary within the context of the laws
Philosophy
Democracy - under fair election, citizens can choose representatives to represent them in the government
Human rights - the rights to do anything that does not interfere with other's rights
Freedom - free to do anything
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/11/china.rights/index.html
PRC criticize US for violating human rights:
"Lack of safeguard for life, freedom and personal safety"
US's lack freedom control is justified in PRC human rights violation, but not the western human rights.
"Serious rights violations by law enforcement departments"
US police corruption is definitly an violation of both type of human rights. I believe that China has more serious police corruption.
"The plight of the poor, hungry and homeless"
This is the best example of how PRC's human rights is different than US's human rights.
"Worrying conditions for women and children"
I don't get this. Stress?? I guess people can't live like that, therefore it is an violation of PRC human rights.
"Deep-rooted social discrimination"
De-facto segregation is not an violation of US human rights. People choose to do that without violating the US human rights. Some people just like to discriminate other races. As long as they don't violate the human rights by showing discrimination in the public, I don't think there is the problem regarding the violation of western human rights. The issue, however, can make people hard to live, so it violate PRC's human rights.
and "Wantonly infringing upon human rights of other countries"
Yeah, providing jobs for PRC people is definitely infringing PRC standard of human rights. I guess PRC is using its own meaning, "exploitation of lives (sounds communist)," this exploitation can make living harder, so it is an violation of human rights. I guess that every nation has it's own laws, and Americans there follow the nation's laws. How is US infringing upon the western style human rights of other countries?
Like I said, PRC perceive human rights as the rights for human to live. There is nothing wrong about PRC's claim using their definition, but their human rights are not the western human rights I posted.
PRC teachs it's citizens
Democracy - People own the government
Human rights - the rights for human to live better.
Freedom - free to do what's neccessary within the context of the laws
Philosophy
Democracy - under fair election, citizens can choose representatives to represent them in the government
Human rights - the rights to do anything that does not interfere with other's rights
Freedom - free to do anything
http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/east/03/11/china.rights/index.html
PRC criticize US for violating human rights:
"Lack of safeguard for life, freedom and personal safety"
US's lack freedom control is justified in PRC human rights violation, but not the western human rights.
"Serious rights violations by law enforcement departments"
US police corruption is definitly an violation of both type of human rights. I believe that China has more serious police corruption.
"The plight of the poor, hungry and homeless"
This is the best example of how PRC's human rights is different than US's human rights.
"Worrying conditions for women and children"
I don't get this. Stress?? I guess people can't live like that, therefore it is an violation of PRC human rights.
"Deep-rooted social discrimination"
De-facto segregation is not an violation of US human rights. People choose to do that without violating the US human rights. Some people just like to discriminate other races. As long as they don't violate the human rights by showing discrimination in the public, I don't think there is the problem regarding the violation of western human rights. The issue, however, can make people hard to live, so it violate PRC's human rights.
and "Wantonly infringing upon human rights of other countries"
Yeah, providing jobs for PRC people is definitely infringing PRC standard of human rights. I guess PRC is using its own meaning, "exploitation of lives (sounds communist)," this exploitation can make living harder, so it is an violation of human rights. I guess that every nation has it's own laws, and Americans there follow the nation's laws. How is US infringing upon the western style human rights of other countries?
Like I said, PRC perceive human rights as the rights for human to live. There is nothing wrong about PRC's claim using their definition, but their human rights are not the western human rights I posted.
sgrig
Comrade
Whoops, missed them out! :crazyeyes
I also missed out the 200 H-5 bombers, but it is not clear whether they are still in service.
Thanks for the link, btw, I used FAS to find info on individual aircraft types but I did not know that it includes the order of battle as well!
sgrig
Comrade
I'm not attacking you
, but it seems to me that the definition of 'freedom' cannot be that you are 'free to do anything'. Even in the most democratic society there are rules, laws, customs, etc which would not let you do 'anything' you like. So you can't go out in the street and shoot people and then say "I live in a free country, so I can do anything I like." So it is just a matter that there are more rules and laws which have to be obeyed in PRC (for example) than in the West (or Taiwan).sgrig
Comrade
Have a look at this page http://fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/taiwan-d-day.htm .
It presents a comparison between invasion of Normandy in 1944 and a possible Chinese invasion of Taiwan. Looking at that, I would say that PRC has little chance of militarily taking over Taiwan in the near future, even without US military help to Taiwan!
It presents a comparison between invasion of Normandy in 1944 and a possible Chinese invasion of Taiwan. Looking at that, I would say that PRC has little chance of militarily taking over Taiwan in the near future, even without US military help to Taiwan!
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