China goes to space

[RedRalph]

But it would be preferable, to me anyways, to what they have now.

But why does it matter what you or me find preferable for them? Why should we be hoping they go in the same direction as Ireland, or the US, or anywhere? I'm not asking rhetorically, I honestly want to know why you want a different political system for them.

 

[Traitorfish]

But I didn't say they would get a Western system. There's plenty of room to get more individual rights without becoming a Western country. It may well remain below what I would choose. But it would be preferable, to me anyways, to what they have now.

You're moving away from you think is a feasible set of political reforms to what reforms you'd like to see, which is really a different question. Nobody's saying that liberal reforms wouldn't be for the besrt- despite my previous remark, something like Singapore would be an improvement- but that's not saying much if there's no line that can be drawn between the present and the alternative.

 

[uppi]

Having a stable platform on which the individual telescopes are mounted is an advantage. Free floating formations need to permanently adjust their induvudual parts positions, and it's really questionable whether we even have the technology to build them at all.

On a stable platform you also need to permanently adjust the individual parts position. You don't get nanometer precision on long timescales without active control of the positions.

First, making everything automated is impossible and will remain so for a veeeery long time.

Why? It doesn't even need to be fully autonomous automation. The robots can be controlled from earth by humans. No need for the humans to get there.

Second, you know what the Chinese are planning? How? Do you have a reliable source in the politburo?

I am going with what they published:

China will conduct studies on the preliminary plan for a human lunar landing.

A human lunar landing is not a moon colony.

 

[Crezth]

A human lunar landing is not a moon colony.

But the former is the literal first step in establishing the latter.

 

[GamezRule]

It is possible that it will be another Sputnik moment and trigger a new space race.

 

[Quackers]

No it won't. Sputnik spurred the USA into action because it was NEVER DONE BEFORE. The USA landed a man on the moon in 1969.

 

[Oruc]

Space isn't important

 

[Cutlass]

But why does it matter what you or me find preferable for them? Why should we be hoping they go in the same direction as Ireland, or the US, or anywhere? I'm not asking rhetorically, I honestly want to know why you want a different political system for them.

First, I consider it safer. Now I realize America is a really bad example to use these days, but in many cases where the public has more say in the government, the government is less of a military threat to its neighbors. I don't want them to go down the road of any particular example. It's not just a potential military danger to the rest of the world. China as it stands is an economic danger to the world. And not because I think they will "take over", but rather because by having a market that large that suppresses wages, it puts distortions into the world market that makes the economy world wide less stable.

Second, I fundamentally believe that all person's have a right to have a say in their government. And in China's case, that means that the current government needs to get out of the way.

I don't believe that the Chinese people are this monolithic block of people all working together for common cause that is often the stereotype of China. I think that, left to their own devices, they'd be much more individualistic than that.

 

[GamezRule]

Also, China has had it's moments in the past to support his arguments.

 

[Pangur Bán]

but in many cases where the public has more say in the government, the government is less of a military threat to its neighbors. I don't want them to go down the road of any particular example.

Having full elections would quite probably be exactly what would put them down that road. The population is collectivist (individuals are not valued as such), and it is extremely nationalistic. With such a poor ratio of men to woman, the best solution for any social stress would have to be warfare. China has been doing well under the charge of paternalistic oligarchs with a stake in improving their country, neither they nor ourselves should be crying out for bloodbaths.

Second, I fundamentally believe that all person's have a right to have a say in their government. And in China's case, that means that the current government needs to get out of the way.

You do have a say in the government in China. You can join the Party and work your way up to power through good politicking, family and luck, or you can because rich and bribe your way to getting what you want. Basically the same as the US and many western countries, though the details and ideological mask differ.

I think that, left to their own devices, they'd be much more individualistic than that.

They are left to "their own devices", and have been for millennia. China's been around alot longer than any of our states. You can't have a bunch of yeehawing Malboro men in a society where tens of millions live in the same river valleys.

 

[pi-r8]

Is it not obvious that this is just a political stunt by the rulers in China? They want to make everyone know that China has arrived as a great power. They're doing all the classic "great power" things like making an aircraft carrier, getting involved in foreign affairs, and now a space program. I'm sure they don't care about any practical benefits from it, and I'm quite sure that they don't have grandiose 500-year plan to start a colony on Mars- they just want to enhance their own authority and prestige.

 

[Algeroth]

That the height of our achievement today is... I don't know, I can't even think of anything great our civilization has achieved in the last 20 years. Nothing really stands out as much as sending people to the Moon.

Because you don't want to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Genome_Project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rinderpest#Eradication

 

[Lord of Elves]

Space isn't important

I'm sorry, but I'm just not bitter and cynical enough to really believe that doing something that has a potent ability to improve the lot of the human species "isn't important".

 

[Oruc]

I'm sorry, but I'm just not bitter and cynical enough to really believe that doing something that has a potent ability to improve the lot of the human species "isn't important".

Why do you feel the need to resort to personal attacks?

 

[Shaihulud]

Is it not obvious that this is just a political stunt by the rulers in China? They want to make everyone know that China has arrived as a great power. They're doing all the classic "great power" things like making an aircraft carrier, getting involved in foreign affairs, and now a space program. I'm sure they don't care about any practical benefits from it, and I'm quite sure that they don't have grandiose 500-year plan to start a colony on Mars- they just want to enhance their own authority and prestige.

Why are you sure that it is not for practical reasons? I have met a few scientists and engineers working for Chinas space agency, they were all very enthusiastic about the space programs and able to give well thought off replies on their plans. Most important, they were all space fanatic, I trust them to push the agenda for Space development.

 

[Lord of Elves]

Why do you feel the need to resort to personal attacks?

I don't. That's simply my position; you would have to be either seriously misinformed about the potential benefits of space exploration, somehow religiously opposed, or very bitter to be directly opposed to it. A personal attack would be to say that "You're just being selfish and would rather have [car/computer/etc] instead of [utopia]!" but that's rather sensationalist, and I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt.

 

[aronnax]

Is it not obvious that this is just a political stunt by the rulers in China? They want to make everyone know that China has arrived as a great power. They're doing all the classic "great power" things like making an aircraft carrier, getting involved in foreign affairs, and now a space program. I'm sure they don't care about any practical benefits from it, and I'm quite sure that they don't have grandiose 500-year plan to start a colony on Mars- they just want to enhance their own authority and prestige.

Well China is learning from the initial pioneers of space travel.

 

[pi-r8]

Why are you sure that it is not for practical reasons? I have met a few scientists and engineers working for Chinas space agency, they were all very enthusiastic about the space programs and able to give well thought off replies on their plans. Most important, they were all space fanatic, I trust them to push the agenda for Space development.

Well, of course the scientists and engineers are enthusiastic. They wouldn't have gotten that job if they weren't. But it also wasn't their decision to go for a moon landing- that must have come from the Communist Party. And for them, the political benefits are obvious.

It's the exact same reason why they want an aircraft carrier, even though having one obsolete Russian carrier is hardly going to accomplish anything for them.

edit: I guess they might also be trying to develop better missile technology, just like the US was in the 60s.

 

[phoenix_sprite]

Good for them. I know it's been done before but not while I was alive. Hopefully they achieve this.

 

[Crezth]

Space isn't important

nothings important man :suicide: