China has 5000 years of history, the US only 250.

[Evie]

Rome/Rum.

At least IIRC. Wiki doesn't directly mention it, only that Mehmet II claimed the title of Roman Emperor/Kayser-i Rum, I could be slightly off on the details, or Wiki could be missing some *shrugs*.

 

[Mirc]

You probably mean the Seljuk Sultanate of Rum, and that's not the Ottoman Empire.

Mehmet II did attempt to create a new Rome by conquering Italy, but he failed, and those that came after him didn't try that again. And yes, he did assume the title of Caesar (which is also what German "Kaiser" and Russian "Czar" mean, so which is irrelevant.

 

[Evie]

Yeah, I probably had my Turks mixed up. Probably confused what Mehmet did (ie, the Roman Emperor title he tried to give himself) and the Seljuk Sultanate.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

The Ottomans also referred to their holdings in Europe as "Rumelia", no?

 

[Mirc]

The Ottomans also referred to their holdings in Europe as "Rumelia", no?

That's true, but that doesn't make them Roman in any way that I can think of, it merely points out that they were geographically in the same position as the Eastern Roman Empire, which we all already knew!

"Indiana" means "Land of the Indians", but you can't say in any way that the US is a continuation of the native American culture.


On a somewhat related note, I love how it says explicitly on Wiki that the Ottoman Empire's holdings were limited by the Danube at the north, yet it shows Romania inside it on almost every map. Talk about misinformation.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

The Isle of Man, of course!

 

[Yoda Power]

That's true, but that doesn't make them Roman in any way that I can think of, it merely points out that they were geographically in the same position as the Eastern Roman Empire, which we all already knew!

"Indiana" means "Land of the Indians", but you can't say in any way that the US is a continuation of the native American culture.


On a somewhat related note, I love how it says explicitly on Wiki that the Ottoman Empire's holdings were limited by the Danube at the north, yet it shows Romania inside it on almost every map. Talk about misinformation.

Actually one of the Sultans titles were Emperor of Rome in Turkish after they captured Constantinople. Remember these monarchs usually had 10-50 different official titles, though only a few were used in practice.

Taking new titles were a way of legalizing the conquest of new lands.

And no, I'm not confusing them with the Seljuks, I got this knowledge in connection with an assignment I wrote on the Ottoman Empire.

 

[Tank_Guy#3]

San Marino then, dating from 3rd of September 301.

How about the Papacy? Technically not a nation, but it has been around for a long time.

With regards to the OP:
It took the Chinese 2200 years at least to get where they are, whereas it took the United States 250.

Far more factors involved, but still.

 

[cybrxkhan]

With regards to the OP:
It took the Chinese 2200 years at least to get where they are, whereas it took the United States 250.

Far more factors involved, but still.

the US was in a world with significantly much more geographical knowledge than China.

China was practically ruler of all East Asia (while Rome was of Europe/Mediteranean, and Persia of the Middle East). Proportionally, I think China did at least as well as the US now.

 

[North King]

Wow, honestly. Counting China as one continuous nation since the Qin Empire is purely ridiculous. Sure, they kept the same bureaucracy and culture around. So what? Most of the Roman legal code is preserved in some fashion or another. Heck, while you're at it, why not just call all of Western Civilization Sumerian while you're at it?

If we're going by the sensible route of a single political entity, then China has basically existed since the Mongols reunited it; prior to that it had been chopped in half with little prospect of reunification for a long time. Therefore, it has existed from roughly 1271 to the modern day. 736 years.

If you start calling things before that Chinese, them I'm afraid we'll have to count the Roman Empire as "continuous" through Italy (2,760 years). Sure, they don't occupy quite the same geographic area, but the vast majority of modern China wasn't part of the Qin Empire.

 

[Ramius75]

Wow, honestly. Counting China as one continuous nation since the Qin Empire is purely ridiculous. Sure, they kept the same bureaucracy and culture around. So what? Most of the Roman legal code is preserved in some fashion or another. Heck, while you're at it, why not just call all of Western Civilization Sumerian while you're at it?

If we're going by the sensible route of a single political entity, then China has basically existed since the Mongols reunited it; prior to that it had been chopped in half with little prospect of reunification for a long time. Therefore, it has existed from roughly 1271 to the modern day. 736 years.

If you start calling things before that Chinese, them I'm afraid we'll have to count the Roman Empire as "continuous" through Italy (2,760 years). Sure, they don't occupy quite the same geographic area, but the vast majority of modern China wasn't part of the Qin Empire.

The thing is, chinese always call themselves the chinese... so they see it as one continuously expansion of their culture.

Im sure some italian will called themselves to be Roman or the English called themselves celts, saxon or anglos. whatever...

 

[Bestbank Tiger]

There were people living in the United States long before it was the United States. For that matter, people lived here long before the Europeans found out there was a continent here. The Chicoms are racist hypocrites for saying the Native Americans count for nothing.

And they shouldn't be so full of themselves anyway. Civilization has existed continuously in the Middle East for 6000 years.

 

[Evie]

They weren't living in the United States because there were no United States. They were living in the land that would one day be forcibly taken from them by the United States (not that Canada, my country, has cleaner hands there).

Roman history begins with the foundation of Rome - not with the first Etruscans civilizations in Italy (let alone the first dawn of Egyptian civilization after Rome conquered Egypt. Likewise, the United States begin no earlier than the 16th century (and later dates can be argued) : ie, when the core of the future nations - the English colonies on the shores of the Atlantic - were founded.

The Native Americans certainly count for something - they count for the history of the American continent/continents (depending on which definition of continent you use), they count for the history of their own people. They count for the history of the United States ONCE they became involved in the history of the United States.

What they don't count for is trying to backdate the history of the United States, because the United States was a nation founded by English colonists, based on colonies populated by English colonists, and the Natives were only "added" (and not in the most glorious sort of way) later on.

 

[Tee Kay]

The thing is, chinese always call themselves the chinese... so they see it as one continuously expansion of their culture.

Im sure some italian will called themselves to be Roman or the English called themselves celts, saxon or anglos. whatever...

Yes, good point. Politically however China had seen many changes in its history, so in terms of politics and society Chinese civilisation cannot really be said to be continuous.

 

[Mirc]

The thing is, chinese always call themselves the chinese... so they see it as one continuously expansion of their culture.

That doesn't say much either.

"Romania" means land of the Romans, and it was used as a name by Rome (Imperium Romanorum = Roman Empire), Byzantium (yes, "Romania" is how the Byzantines called themselves), and Wallachia since before the Byzantine empire fell (since at least 1330 when we are sure it was called "Teara Romaneasca" = Roman land), and then by modern Romania.

On top of that, the Romansh language of Switzerland means "Roman language" too.

How is China's name still in use any different to this?

 

[bloh]

The role of Iran in history is highly significant; hence the German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel considered the ancient Persians to be "the first historic people" and stated thus:

"In Persia first arises that light which shines itself and illuminates what is around...The principle of development begins with the history of Persia; this constitutes therefore the beginning of history".

And Richard Nelson Frye further verifies:

"Few nations in the world present more of a justification for the study of history than Iran."

Archaeological findings place knowledge of Iranian prehistory at Lower Paleolithic times (800,000 years ago). Iran has been the longest place where people have started to "live" and "work" at.

Officially, all the civilizations was around 2500 years ago merged into one kingdom founded by Cyrus the Great.

Civilizations like the Elamite etc, people from that civilization still exist in Iran.

Even though Iran has many times been attacked by many countries/people; the culture, traditions, language, country - everything stayed the same.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Archaeological findings place knowledge of Iranian prehistory at Lower Paleolithic times (800,000 years ago). Iran has been the longest place where people have started to "live" and "work" at.

800,000 years? You sure, because if so, that was a different species (let alone culture), and by that definition Ethiopia and Kenya can claim millions of years and easily beat Iran.

 

[Evie]

That doesn't say much either.

"Romania" means land of the Romans, and it was used as a name by Rome (Imperium Romanorum = Roman Empire), Byzantium (yes, "Romania" is how the Byzantines called themselves), and Wallachia since before the Byzantine empire fell (since at least 1330 when we are sure it was called "Teara Romaneasca" = Roman land), and then by modern Romania.

On top of that, the Romansh language of Switzerland means "Roman language" too.

How is China's name still in use any different to this?

The difference being that in China's case :

1)The name remained the same.
2)The location the name applied to remained (roughly) the same.
3)The ethnic group that formed the core of the nation the name applied to remained the same (the Han - the name derives from the Han dynasty)

Point 1 may apply to Romania, but I don't really see point 2 and 3 applying quite so well - Romania controls neither Greece nor Egypt nor Italy - the pride of the old Roman Empire nor Byzantium (though it's a little closer to that) ; and the current-day Romanians ethnically are by no means Latin people.

 

[Mirc]

The difference being that in China's case :

1)The name remained the same.

Same here. The name "Romania" means in Latin "Roman Realm", and it was exactly the version later used by both Byzantium and today's Romania.

2)The location the name applied to remained (roughly) the same.

Same location, more than 2/3 of modern Romania was the Roman Empire, all of Byzantium was the Roman Empire too.

Point 1 may apply to Romania, but I don't really see point 2 and 3 applying quite so well - Romania controls neither Greece nor Egypt nor Italy

No but it definitely controls a Roman province, and Byzantium controlled both Greece and Egypt, and yes even Italy sometimes.

and the current-day Romanians ethnically are by no means Latin people.

Lol what? Prove it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_Europe
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romance_peoples



The Romans probably make up not only most of the ethnic substratum of the Latin peoples today, but also of at least a few regions in Slavic countries (western Croatia for example).

 

[cybrxkhan]

I'll add another point for China.

4. Not permanantly split into little countries.