Elfi Wolfe
Chieftain
If it was me I would try and stay alive though the rest of the game. (I don't care about points, I try to play like it is real life)
Civ 3 GOTM 7 *Spoilers* Thread
- Thread starter Rain
- Start date
Hmm, I haven't played deity level before, but thought I was doing ok until I declined a tribute. Nuff said. Only had to send one save file, didn't last til the ADs.
Knew about tech trading ect from reading other messages, but don't recall not veing able to decline a tribute until this thread.
Good news is made 14th on last months GOTM
Knew about tech trading ect from reading other messages, but don't recall not veing able to decline a tribute until this thread.
Good news is made 14th on last months GOTM
Zachriel
Kaiser
Same with me. I never play for points, just for fun. Losing is cool --as long as you go down fighting.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
Well the I finally got a Great Leader (after 46 elite wins) and in time to build Hoover! It's 1350 AD and I'm only 2/3 the way to a domination victory. Although the Romans are reduced to one city (on the very far western tip of the continent) I was unable to capture much of the old English territory. No one is sporting their new tanks around yet and we just crossed to the modern age. With all the infantry running around diplomacy is starting to look like a nice way to end this before 1400 AD else some very brutal wars will have to be fought. [Germans and Japanese are still gracious]
CB
CB
donsig
Low level intermediary
... and probably scarred for life!
My game isn't over yet but it's only a matter of time. I hated the starting position so I sent my settler south. What did I find? MOUNTAINS!
Of course the Russians to the east had grassland and a river!
The mountains looked like a dead end so I walked my settler all the way back to the rotten start position. The round trip only took about 2500 years.
By the time I got back and built Salamanca my scout had found the choke point beyond the mountains, traversed the jungle and found the wide open promised land that I had looked for.
Of course it was too late by then even though that land was still unclaimed!
Around 800 AD I got tired of the bullies taking my lunch money and told Ceaser to go pound rock salt. He declared war and proceeded to land a rifleman and archer one turn and 2 infantry and 2 longbows a couple turns later. My spearmen defended valiantly and I ended gladly paying Ceasar much more than he originally had asked for. BUT: my spearmen had defended my cities and my country was intact.
500 years later I've just upgraded to pikemen in time for my only iron to run out. Secured am MPP with Rome 'cause Russia just wiped oout Persia.
Well, one of 'em should launch the ship pretty soon and this nightmare will be over.
My game isn't over yet but it's only a matter of time. I hated the starting position so I sent my settler south. What did I find? MOUNTAINS!
Of course the Russians to the east had grassland and a river!The mountains looked like a dead end so I walked my settler all the way back to the rotten start position. The round trip only took about 2500 years.
By the time I got back and built Salamanca my scout had found the choke point beyond the mountains, traversed the jungle and found the wide open promised land that I had looked for.
Of course it was too late by then even though that land was still unclaimed!
Around 800 AD I got tired of the bullies taking my lunch money and told Ceaser to go pound rock salt. He declared war and proceeded to land a rifleman and archer one turn and 2 infantry and 2 longbows a couple turns later. My spearmen defended valiantly and I ended gladly paying Ceasar much more than he originally had asked for. BUT: my spearmen had defended my cities and my country was intact.
500 years later I've just upgraded to pikemen in time for my only iron to run out. Secured am MPP with Rome 'cause Russia just wiped oout Persia.
Well, one of 'em should launch the ship pretty soon and this nightmare will be over.
SirPleb
Shaken, not stirred.
There are lots of notes about milking techniques on this thread: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18729
Basically as you are thinking, kill off all but one controlled rival, then build for territory and happiness. Coastal tiles are good if you can get the sphere of influence to expand to include some sea as well.
At 1300 you've played 250 turns and have 290 to go. A useful reference date I keep in mind is 1400AD - that's the halfway mark, 270 played, 270 remaining.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Another thing I've learned from this thread: it seems like most people don't like to give in to AI demands! I see this has caused some hardship in this game... 
I almost always give in, even if I am stronger, simply because I hate fighting a war that I haven't prepared for. The demands are usually at most 1 turn's income, so I hardly feel like I'm losing much. And of course they will be paid back later...
Keep in mind that on Emperor/Deity you cannot get away with the same kind of stuff that works on Regent or lower.
I almost always give in, even if I am stronger, simply because I hate fighting a war that I haven't prepared for. The demands are usually at most 1 turn's income, so I hardly feel like I'm losing much. And of course they will be paid back later...Keep in mind that on Emperor/Deity you cannot get away with the same kind of stuff that works on Regent or lower.
290 turns left? Good lord that's a lot of milking. I haven't even played half the game yet? It took forever to dominate the world and now I have 7 armies and I could sweep in and win instantly. Are you going to milk every game you play SirPleb or are you going to try for a quickest something? Maybe the last 290 turns go a lot quicker than the first 250.
Iroquois Pangeas (IP) are my specialty. I've played more of those games than probably all the others put together. I've played easier and harder IPs before but this was one of the more exciting probably because it was a GOTM. The worst IP scenarios are when it isn't really a pangea but 2 continents, I hate those. I never pick so many mountains either. Only getting 20 shields for the first forced pop rush was a bit of a setback but I got used to it. I think the fastest I won an IP scenario was around 2000 BC on a tiny map when a horse was next to my starting city and I popped horseback riding and a settler after the first couple huts. That was back when rushing was king. Aztecs are just sad now with the rules changes.
About the tech race, I don't think tanks will ever be discovered in my game. Its 1295 AD and Democracy hasn't even been discovered yet and it will take me something like 19 turns with 100% sci and I have 80 something cities. I suppose I could do 7 techs in 280 turns and get tanks at the end of the game but wouldn't that just cause pollution? I know how tech can get away from you in Deity level games. I got totally crushed in my first Diety level game playing as the French. Space race ENDED something like 1050 AD. I was stunned. The stupid English had their own island and won before the Russians could win a domination victory. I learned about IP scenarios here on Civfanatics and I found I loved them. It was just great! I thought Diety level couldn't be beaten without a custom map or something.
I'll have to learn how to win a diplomatic victory someday. Is there some point where the computer opponents become permanently furious and you can't win a diplomatic victory no matter what? I never won a cultural victory until the last GOTM and it sort of happened by accident.
It has a different ending. I'm so used to the domination ending I forgot there were different endings. I rape and betray the computer at every opportunity, I'll have to stop doing that if I want to win a diplomatic victory. I just can't resist attacking a settler when it moves by my borders. I always see two free workers.
Iroquois Pangeas (IP) are my specialty. I've played more of those games than probably all the others put together. I've played easier and harder IPs before but this was one of the more exciting probably because it was a GOTM. The worst IP scenarios are when it isn't really a pangea but 2 continents, I hate those. I never pick so many mountains either. Only getting 20 shields for the first forced pop rush was a bit of a setback but I got used to it. I think the fastest I won an IP scenario was around 2000 BC on a tiny map when a horse was next to my starting city and I popped horseback riding and a settler after the first couple huts. That was back when rushing was king. Aztecs are just sad now with the rules changes.
About the tech race, I don't think tanks will ever be discovered in my game. Its 1295 AD and Democracy hasn't even been discovered yet and it will take me something like 19 turns with 100% sci and I have 80 something cities. I suppose I could do 7 techs in 280 turns and get tanks at the end of the game but wouldn't that just cause pollution? I know how tech can get away from you in Deity level games. I got totally crushed in my first Diety level game playing as the French. Space race ENDED something like 1050 AD. I was stunned. The stupid English had their own island and won before the Russians could win a domination victory. I learned about IP scenarios here on Civfanatics and I found I loved them. It was just great! I thought Diety level couldn't be beaten without a custom map or something.
I'll have to learn how to win a diplomatic victory someday. Is there some point where the computer opponents become permanently furious and you can't win a diplomatic victory no matter what? I never won a cultural victory until the last GOTM and it sort of happened by accident.
It has a different ending. I'm so used to the domination ending I forgot there were different endings. I rape and betray the computer at every opportunity, I'll have to stop doing that if I want to win a diplomatic victory. I just can't resist attacking a settler when it moves by my borders. I always see two free workers.arg i made 2 mistakes in my game (and first try at diety) first of all when i attacked the russians i took one city and then sued for peace, but then i started lacking technologically (hills + mountains = no growth no growth= no science) and i was waaaay behind but i foolishly built a stack of archers and attacked russia again, only to find that it brought reinforcements of KNIGHTS 
russia took two of my cities and i gave them the third one for peace.
That was the first mistake
the second mistake happened earlier when the japanese were making demands offof me. i got pissed and refused figuring "theyre too far away too attack". then after a while i forgot i was at war w/ japan (they never attacked) and they formed an alliance with practically everyone against me!!!! I managed to get my two closest neighbors (russia, persia) to stop attacking me, but they took nearly all of my spearmen garnisoned cities (Persians had calvary!) i gave my last city away for peace (no money no science) and only my capitol left.. im on republic... its 700 AD i wont last much longer
grr stupid russians :die!:
russia took two of my cities and i gave them the third one for peace. That was the first mistake
the second mistake happened earlier when the japanese were making demands offof me. i got pissed and refused figuring "theyre too far away too attack". then after a while i forgot i was at war w/ japan (they never attacked) and they formed an alliance with practically everyone against me!!!! I managed to get my two closest neighbors (russia, persia) to stop attacking me, but they took nearly all of my spearmen garnisoned cities (Persians had calvary!) i gave my last city away for peace (no money no science) and only my capitol left.. im on republic... its 700 AD i wont last much longer
grr stupid russians :die!:
Sulla, it had requested 300 gold and a contact- this was before 370bc when I died. I have read in this thread to keep your resources low now, doesn't help in hindsight but it will help in future games.
I would have given the gold, but I had managed to blockade the western and eastern groups from communication, so had intended to start a tech trading frenzy on the turn the tribute came in on. I had just managed to get the last contact on the western side.
It was funny watching me block a 5 gap pass to Russia with 3 people- a worker, scout, and warrior. Russia had 6 settlers and 6 spearmen all trying the exact same path each time so I would just move the three one step either direction. Had it split the 12 people apart they could have easily gotten through. I had a city there as well, but the AI seems to disregard borders. And if you chastise them about it they just teleport to the other side anyway.
I would have given the gold, but I had managed to blockade the western and eastern groups from communication, so had intended to start a tech trading frenzy on the turn the tribute came in on. I had just managed to get the last contact on the western side.
It was funny watching me block a 5 gap pass to Russia with 3 people- a worker, scout, and warrior. Russia had 6 settlers and 6 spearmen all trying the exact same path each time so I would just move the three one step either direction. Had it split the 12 people apart they could have easily gotten through. I had a city there as well, but the AI seems to disregard borders. And if you chastise them about it they just teleport to the other side anyway.
Midevil: Your mistake was building archers instead of mounted warriors. You had the right idea about attacking the Russians, you just might have done it too late. If you build enough mounted warriors fast enough you can always win. You have to know the right time to make peace too and when to buy alliances. You didn't need any technology beyond horseback riding to win because of the effects of the Great Library. When you get the Great Library you get every technology in the world presently researched even past education. Iron working helps to have so you can see iron to deny it to the computer but that about it for early tech. Without iron and horses all the technology in the world doesn't help you until you get nationalism. The mounted warrior dominates until the advent of the musketeer/knights and even then its pretty powerful because it is cheap and easy to rush. You just have to make the push to Military Traditions (usually 1-3 techs after Great Library) and cavalry dominate until the advent of infantry but infantry require rubber otherwise the computer is stuck with riflemen who can be plowed by cavalry. Armies, armies, armies. The importance of armies cannot be over emphasised.
I loved the whole east-west blockage dynamic. That's what made this such an interesting map to play, that and the resource distibution.
I've done that settler block trick before. If the computer has a path to its desired spot it will always try to move there but if you block it completely it will build a city right where it is and force you back with its cultural radius.
You can play Iroquois Diety games on Tiny-Small maps in about 1-3 hours (about one evening's play) I suppose you could win in about 30 minutes on sub-diety difficulty. It really helps to play a couple dozen of those to polish your diety skills. In last months game as the Indians I beat my nearest neighbor into submission (actually right out of the game) with warriors since it was Warlord level, imagine how easy it would be with mounted warriors. The elephant is awful and actually a penalty since it can't upgrade to cav. I'd rather have no UU than the elephant. The mounted warrior by contrast is hands down the best UU in the game.
I loved the whole east-west blockage dynamic. That's what made this such an interesting map to play, that and the resource distibution.
I've done that settler block trick before. If the computer has a path to its desired spot it will always try to move there but if you block it completely it will build a city right where it is and force you back with its cultural radius.
You can play Iroquois Diety games on Tiny-Small maps in about 1-3 hours (about one evening's play) I suppose you could win in about 30 minutes on sub-diety difficulty. It really helps to play a couple dozen of those to polish your diety skills. In last months game as the Indians I beat my nearest neighbor into submission (actually right out of the game) with warriors since it was Warlord level, imagine how easy it would be with mounted warriors. The elephant is awful and actually a penalty since it can't upgrade to cav. I'd rather have no UU than the elephant. The mounted warrior by contrast is hands down the best UU in the game.
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
I see you answered your own question
Unless you're going to go for an early war and get ahead of the AI that way, you really can't leave anything for the AI to demand from you. I always traded my luxuries as soon as the deals came up for renewal, simply because the AI would demand them from me otherwise. I traded all contacts immediately as soon as I found the western civs for the same reason. If you have something good, get rid of it before it's demanded from you.Lawrence
Warlord
Archer99: Please notice the fact that u cannot ALWAYS have the Great Library. Yes, in your game and mine it is accessible, but what if the Japs or English or Egyptians built it? That is not a strategy you can depend on until after the GL was built, which can be as late as 700 BC.
And in my game last month Elephants COULD be upgraded to Cavs. They have fixed it in the 1.17 patch, I believe.
And in my game last month Elephants COULD be upgraded to Cavs. They have fixed it in the 1.17 patch, I believe.
JoeM
Imperator
The GL is in Hamburg in my game, and that makes it waaay too far for conquest. I've done what others have but haven't had the success everyone else is claiming.
Map trading, I was exploring everywhere with a few scouts with the idea of selling the map. But my map isn't worth sh!t. 1 gp is the MOST anyone would pay.
Mounted warriors - Built as soon as available all cities in production, Russians attack and slaughter my fortified spearmen on mountains with single horsemen....
Next I'm gonna try trading luxuries if I can link any up, but I'm not holding up much hope - We offer Silks, furs, horses, etc. We want 1 gold "They'll be insulted by this deal"...
Deity. I'll have to watch someone play every turn before I believe they won for real. ;-)
Map trading, I was exploring everywhere with a few scouts with the idea of selling the map. But my map isn't worth sh!t. 1 gp is the MOST anyone would pay.
Mounted warriors - Built as soon as available all cities in production, Russians attack and slaughter my fortified spearmen on mountains with single horsemen....
Next I'm gonna try trading luxuries if I can link any up, but I'm not holding up much hope - We offer Silks, furs, horses, etc. We want 1 gold "They'll be insulted by this deal"...
Deity. I'll have to watch someone play every turn before I believe they won for real. ;-)
Bribe, lie and steal to get RoP agreements so you can get to the Great Library. All you have to do it capture the library once. You don't have to hold on to it. It applies in every diety level game, not just this one. If Japan got the Great Library this time then you are screwed but I don't think Japan could manage the Great Library in this game at all. A computer at war will almost always finish its wonders faster than computers not at war and you can control who is at war.
Map trading is only worth money once in my experience. You trade to everyone in the world at the same time and everyone has a complete world map and then its over. You get a big one time boost in cash/tech. I think a map has 1 gc value for each 2 tiles you have that they don't I believe.
Map trading is only worth money once in my experience. You trade to everyone in the world at the same time and everyone has a complete world map and then its over. You get a big one time boost in cash/tech. I think a map has 1 gc value for each 2 tiles you have that they don't I believe.
JoeM
Imperator
Surely your not saying that you continue to reap the benefits of the Library after losing it? I admit that even a temporary period of ownership would allow me to catch up
Sullla
Patrician Roman Dictator
Archer99, have you ever considered playing the game without using exploits like this? It's entirely possible to win on Deity without building the Great Library (or capturing it), or by playing peacefully. After all, I did it in this game, and so did Sirian. Please don't take this the wrong way, but you are certainly using an exploit in the game by playing this way, whether the GOTM considers it "legal" or not. It's no wonder you've never won by the UN if you break so many deals!
I am very much against players blatanly abusing the ROP betrayal to gain enormous advantages like this. I would challenge you in future games to try and win on Deity without using these kind of exploits; I would imagine that you are probably a much better player than I am, so I'm sure you can do it. But focusing your whole playing strategy around betraying other civs to capture the Great Library? That doesn't sound much different than the endless whipping exploits of the pre-patch days. 
Rain
Marquesa
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 699
Im not sure if i'd got call the GL thing an exploit. I assume its a bug that was not intended. On the other hand if one presupposes that libraries contain a lot of information and the civ that owns it has passed well beyond education, then capturing it would presumably reveal information on later echnologies as well.
As far as the exploit aspect this is another thing that would be impossible to control in any case. I suspect if it was not intetnional then the bug will be fixed in future. Its a bit surprising thats its not been addressed to date if it is in fact a bug. On the negative side the existence of this bug adds another element of extreme variabilty to diety games since a lot would depend on which civ built the GL and how acessible they are.
On the other side of the coin breaking all those deals carries a penalty as well when you try to trade for later techs.
As far as the exploit aspect this is another thing that would be impossible to control in any case. I suspect if it was not intetnional then the bug will be fixed in future. Its a bit surprising thats its not been addressed to date if it is in fact a bug. On the negative side the existence of this bug adds another element of extreme variabilty to diety games since a lot would depend on which civ built the GL and how acessible they are.
On the other side of the coin breaking all those deals carries a penalty as well when you try to trade for later techs.
JoeM
Imperator
Breaking RoP agreements is out of bounds (unnecessary in my case cos we're alredy at war).
But are you saying that the benefits of the Great Library continue to be awarded after you lose possesion of it? I must've been lkiving in a cave not to know about this if it's true.
Simply yes or no?
Cheers.
But are you saying that the benefits of the Great Library continue to be awarded after you lose possesion of it? I must've been lkiving in a cave not to know about this if it's true.
Simply yes or no?
Cheers.
Cartouche Bee
Appropriations Consultant
Finished 1440AD with a diplomatic win, 'Red Cloud' rushed the United Nations. Since I had not started any wars or broken any agreements this was a pretty good way to end this game. Although I was scoring at a rate which exceeds the bonus points being awarded I did not want to risk going into nuclear wars. I ended up with a score closer to 10000 than 5000 so I won't be in the scoring or medal races this time but for my first deity game I can't complain.
CB
CB
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