civ 3 players will not move on

[Gary Childress]

Well I have homophobia then, cos all them pinkies running around just look terrible when you`re at war. Thank God for modding (without having to know a thing about programing)

The color pink is not going to make you homosexual Stormrage. Having sex with someone else of the same gender may but liking the color pink isn't. I'm not sure what the connection is between homosexuals and war though.

 

[Stormrage]

But will not liking the color pink make me a homophob? That is the question. Cos if I was ready to have sex with anyone from Firaxis who would give us the Civ3 source code and publicly say it (I think it was before you joined), then I think I just hate pink. On men, on women, on units. There`s a reason magenta is invisible in Civ, IMO

BTW, it turned out that secretaries don`t have access to the code

 

[Gary Childress]

But will not liking the color pink make me a homophob? That is the question. Cos if I was ready to have sex with anyone from Firaxis who would give us the Civ3 source code and publicly say it (I think it was before you joined), then I think I just hate pink. On men, on women, on units. There`s a reason magenta is invisible in Civ, IMO

I don't worry that much about who wears what. You're certainly entitled to your opinion. At least you're upfront about it.

 

[Napalm102]

I went back for a bit to C3C after playing civ 4 bts and I can say C3C feels just plain boring right now, mostly due to micro involved. Looking back the only thing I see going for civ 3 is the scale of your empire, the amount of cities and units you have is far greater then what you would have even at the end game of civ 4, but then most of that empire is disfunctional due to corruption and waste (modding it out = cheating IMHO).

I used to not like that units in C4 have only the strength values and not separate attack and defence values, but after playing civ 4 since it came out I'm not so sure any more. One thing I'm really sure about is that I'm not missing the way that the combat was handled in civ 3.

As for AI having more bonuses in Civ 4, well as far as I'm concerned in civ 3 AI had one super overpowered bonus and thats AI to AI tech trade rate. In any case when playing a game in Civ 4 it feels more like playing against various civs, rather then just you a vs. an alliance of AIs.

I'm staying with Civ 4 for sure, its a different game to civ 3 and I like the direction in which it went.

 

[Gary Childress]

To me it's a boring direction but to each his own. De gustibus non est disputandum

I think a good compromise would be to split the Civ franchise into the classic Civ series and the New Civ series. Call them two different things (or maybe only slightly different) but keep them as separate strands of the same game, maybe use some of the innovations of each to improve each. That way Civ3ers get what we want and Civ4ers get what you all want.

EDIT: I don't get where modding out something you don't want is "cheating". If you hate an aspect of the game and it can be modded out, what are you going to do, sit there and keep banging your head on the keyboard cursing at it or simply mod it out??? I'd just mod it out.

 

[Quintillus]

Wow, 6 pages already. Quite impressive.

I don't have the time to catch up on everything right now, but looking only at the most recent post:

I'm not sure what you mean - a dichotomy? Really, I'd be satisfied with anything Firaxis did so long as at some point (hopefully sooner rather than later) they update Civilization III to get rid of the artificial limits (8092 units, 512 cities, 355x355 map) and optimize the trade route code a bit - ok, maybe a lot. I don't think a new version of Civ is required beyond CivIII, so long as an update like this is released - I'd even buy it as an expansion pack.

Innovations from all Civ games will be used in all future developments. Civ4's Spy unit, for example, was brought back from Civ2.

 

[Thrallia]

I much prefer Civ4...I loved Civ3, but never finished a single game of it outside of the scenarios because it took too stinking long to play. It is much funner to me to be able to play a whole game in 2-6 hours if I desire, and have some massive game to play when I have more time. Of course, if I'd known about this site during my Civ3 days, maybe I would have finished more games while competing in the GOTM, but somehow I doubt it...games just took too long. AI armies were ridiculously massive, and compared to the current AI, the AI in Civ3 was completely hopeless.

 

[Gary Childress]

@Quintillus: I mean Civ3 and 4 are very different games in many ways. Some people like Civ3 others Civ4. Obviously the Civ4 crowd which has taken over is not going to stand for a return to the classic Civ concept and I'll go play another game rather than play Civ4 or Province4. I'd rather see a compromise than see the classic Civ concept go the way of the passenger pigeon.

 

[Newbunkle]

Damn, I just don't understand how all those Civ 4 players can prefer it to Civ 3. They've fallen for a shallow dumbed-down version of the game. They must be brainwashed of something.

 

[CyberChrist]

Heh, all you hardcore Civ III fanatics refusing to play cIV sound exactly like the hardcore Civ2 fanatics back in the days when they refused to play Civ III .

Peace guys, noone is trying to tell you what/when to play/prefer - no matter how odd your reasons seem to some of us.

However, the fact is that there is nothing in the way of how Civ, Civ2 or Civ III works that you couldn't Mod to work exactly the same way in cIV (with the exception of the graphical core engine perhaps) - if anyone could ever be bothered to do the mod work required to achieve this that is. But the same could never happen the other way around.

 

[Gary Childress]

Can you mod units to have both attack and defense values and add combat experience to them, regular, veteran, elite? Can you create huge maps with a hundred cities or more? If so then I'll give it another go and try to stomach the graphics.

Also is there an airdrop function still existing for helicopters, paratroopers, etc or can one be modded in? What about airfields?

 

[opticaljim]

Did you know that there are still folks out there that like to play checkers? With all the complex, intricate computer games available, they still enjoy a good game of checkers. Why?

Because there is nothing wrong with enjoying a game based on simple concepts. Now, I'm not saying that Civilization III is basic, I'm just saying that it has it's own appeal, it stands on it's own. For some, advanced and more complex doesn't necessarily mean better for that particular person.

I usually play Civ IV BTS, but sometimes I like to play Civ III complete and sometimes I like to play Civ IV vanilla. It depends on how I'm feeling, I like them all, they are all unique in their own ways.

I like Civ III because I can build a giant map with 30 Civs and play a long game without any major stalling of my system. The larger Civ II game sjust happen top be more compatible to my system than larger Civ IV games.

I like Civ IV on a standard map with about 6-8 opponents, and I enjoy it's complexity.

 

[BeyondCivilized]

@BeyondCivilized: Sorry but getting frustrated over the color pink is pretty give away to at least mild "homophobia". Either that or you have some rare eye disease which doesn't like certain colors.

It's either stab it in the head with a knife or blow it's head off with you, isn't it?
I also hate the color yellow, does that mean I hate vegetarians now or something? Because if it does then you might just be on to something... You know you're brutally murdering the plant too. OK now I will leave this thread.

 

[Stormrage]

It means you hate the sun, and all things happy and sunny

I loved civ2. I moved on to civ3 without a problem, cos they are similar in alot of ways. Civ4, like someone around here said, is a totally different game, its not a sequel in the Civ series, just like Revolutions isn`t either. Its like Final Fantasy. You have Final Fantasy 1 to 10, then they stray off with 11, and go back to the original concept with 12.

So Gary has a good point about spliting the franchise.

 

[CyberChrist]

Can you mod units to have both attack and defense values

Yes - and some mods are already using this.

... and add combat experience to them, regular, veteran, elite?

Yes, units gaining experience is kind of central to the vanilla system of cIV and the unit promotion system. Of course if you mean it should work exactly like in Civ III - then still yes, but I am not aware of anyone having made any mod to this effect.

Can you create huge maps with a hundred cities or more?

Yes - and if you have a powerfull enough PC it might even be playable
But the 3D graphic engine of cIV is an achilles heel for sure. I for one was very disappointed that Firaxis chose to go down the full 3D path - since it adds little to the game itself (imho) apart from heavily increased demands on hardware and graphical modding skills/software.

Also is there an airdrop function still existing for helicopters, paratroopers, etc or can one be modded in? What about airfields?

Yes, Paratroopers with airdrop are in fact included with BTS, but they didn't include any Airfields(Paratroopers can paradrop from Forts within your own territory though). Of course it is all possible in any shape or form you prefer - if you put on the modding hat.


Basicly you can add anything you might have thought wasn't possible to mod in cIV to the list "Things I didn't know about the modding possibilities of cIV"

 

[Combat Ingrid]

I loved civ2. I moved on to civ3 without a problem, cos they are similar in alot of ways. Civ4, like someone around here said, is a totally different game, its not a sequel in the Civ series, just like Revolutions isn`t either.

I have seen others making this point before, and find it very interesting. To me, it was Civ3 that was different from the rest. I don't know, maybe it depends on playstyle. In Civ1 and Civ2 I was very much a hardcore builder. However, I found myself going to war all the time in Civ3, which was actually lots of fun, don't get me wrong there! Then in Civ4 it felt to me like going back to Civ2, just a more advanced version. Back to the good old builder habits

As for the inflamed Civ3 vs Civ4 debate, I currently lean towards Civ4 but I can't really take a side yet. I have only spent a few hundred hours playing Civ4 whereas I spent thousands of hours with Civ3, it's just way too early to make that kind of decision.

 

[Stormrage]

Huh.. I remember going to war all the time in Civ2.. Depends on the playing style, I guess. I just recently learned how to play "nice" in diplomacy, and I didn`t have alot of wars. The AI crossing my borders definately sucks, but I got used to it. If you are strong enough, they`ll keep out. And if they declare war, you can beat them in a defensive war anytime, and it brings the bastard`s reputation down.

 

[Gary Childress]

It's either stab it in the head with a knife or blow it's head off with you, isn't it?
I also hate the color yellow, does that mean I hate vegetarians now or something? Because if it does then you might just be on to something... You know you're brutally murdering the plant too. OK now I will leave this thread.

Then what is "What the F!?" supposed to mean? Generaly I take that as meaning Firaxis did something outrageous by making the Arab Civ pink, like Firaxis should have known not to make it pink. Why is that? Firaxis is supposed to know that pink isn't one of your preferences? Does yellow likewise make your eyes "agonize in pain"? "I'm not a homophobe"? Gee there's obviously no connection being made between pink and homosexuality there.

I apologize for making the wrong inference from your statement. If I really wanted to "stab you in the head" or "blow your head off" I would have thrown in a lot more than candidness. I apologize for being candid.

 

[Gary Childress]

Yes - and if you have a powerfull enough PC it might even be playable
But the 3D graphic engine of cIV is an achilles heel for sure. I for one was very disappointed that Firaxis chose to go down the full 3D path - since it adds little to the game itself (imho) apart from heavily increased demands on hardware and graphical modding skills/software.

I'll have to wait until I get a better computer then. Maybe a HAL 9000.

 

[T.A JONES]

Civ 4 is a newer game. Newer games are almost always better than the old. In this Case it is better than the old, If i spent the time listing the positives about civ 4 and the negitives in civ 3 we would all be 100 years old

@azzaman333: I'll put it plainly. You're wrong

do you have proof that im wrong

Well heres something tangible I found laying around

Official Civfanatic Participation Ratings Oct 21 7. 9.24am (Central)

Civ3 ( 4 years after last Xpack) > Civ4 (4 months after last Xpak)
_________________________________________________________

Why is the 'old' version beating the brand new, hyped dailey version even UP TO THIS DAY? Is Civ3 that popular or is Civ4 that bad? Its more of a combo don't you think?

Btw, This is no rare occurance..and yes I can back it up
Was this same occurance first seen back in the civ3 vs Civ2 comparison day? I don't think so. Never saw a Civ2 'supporting type' post this kind of proof in confronting civ'3 superiorty. Yet, some try to say this whole argument is a repeating pattern. Wrong!!

Civ4 has tripped where no other has done so before, its lost in popularty to the 'older model' in the ultmate indicater for factoring replayabity levels, the modding sector.

Those who mod do so cuz they can't get enough of that game. If more are modding then theres a higher chance the games being improved. Again, this promotes higher replay levels in the end.
Truly its the only category where its worth comparing here at civfan. I can show you Sales charts that show Warlords was beat by Desprate Houswives the week it hit the street. This might indicate civ4's real support that refects returns after the intial padding that civ4 Vannila enjoyed from the Civ3 fans who know fell duped has dried up.

Still how can you say the Civ4 is the better model when it has establised the dubious and quite frankly rather embarassing distinction of being the 1st chapter in the series to ever be passed over by the modders, the backbone of the civ legacy, for a prequel thats 7 years its senior?

Ouch! Based on the OP's logic this has really gotta hurt. Especially Civ4's back of box quote: "best moddable version yet!"