Civ 5: Civilizations/Leaders Wanted!

[steveg700]

Interesting idea for the Impi. I like it being pushed up the tech tree from its usual spots. We tend to forget UBs don't have to match the unit they are replacing.

Are there any such examples? The only thing that springs to mind is the Mayan atlatlist. The influenced my ikhanda idea as a low-budget barracks.

Has anyone suggested a UA that grants the promotion Mobility to all melee units (not mounted or civilian)? Would be simple and yet powerful. Mobility would be useful for scouting as well as warfare. The ultimate anti-great wall force. Your impi idea wouldn't need three movement in its description and would just be one of many units with the mobility promotion. Just some thoughts.

I thought about it, but considering that some unique units like the Norse berserker only have the extra movement going for them, and only for that one unit, it seems too strong.

 

[Kurtbob]

Are there any such examples? The only thing that springs to mind is the Mayan atlatlist. The influenced my ikhanda idea as a low-budget barracks.


I thought about it, but considering that some unique units like the Norse berserker only have the extra movement going for them, and only for that one unit, it seems too strong.

I was just thinking in terms of unit replacement, not actually moving a spearman or pikeman UU higher into the tree. If Marduk80s analysis is correct, most Impi UU ideas thus far wish to replace the spearman or pikemen. I liked marduk80s Impi UU because it replaced a unit it doesn't nessasariy match, much like the battering ram replacing the spearman. Sorry if I wasn't clear before.

The berserker's extra movement becomes dangerous when coupled with Denmarks UA. By itself, I don't think it would be that overpowered. And there are other civs that grant numerous units free promotions, so there is a precendent. (American units begin with extra sight, Songhai units begin with Amphibious and an embarkation defense promotion, and Ottoman naval units begin with prize ships.) The only thing I would have against the idea is how boring it is by itself.

 

[Bismillah]

Knights of st john as a civ.

Capital would be Valetta.

Special unit would be Knight of St John.

Special building could be Watchtower.


Short and sweet..

Moderator Action: Merged with Civs/Leaders wanted thread.

 

[Bismillah]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=365433

Much like this..

 

[Sonereal]

So many, actual civilizations, to include first.

 

[Bismillah]

They are an actual civ... They still exist today

 

[AessaSH]

The Greater India Pack I​

Here is it, another proposal for Southeast Asia Region :

===
Java (Majapahit)

Leader : Tribhuwana Wijayatunggadewi (f)

U.Ability :
Unity in Diversity
All City-States which are Allies provide a Culture bonus equal to 15% of what they produce for themselves and will occasionally gift you Naval Unit.
Also, they are cannot be contacted by another Civilizations.

U.Unit :
Javanese Jong
Replaces Galleass
- Can Enter Deep Ocean
- +15% Combat Strength against Naval Units (Targeting I)
- Intimidating twice more effective and more farther against city-states

U.Building :
Pendopo
Replaces Amphitheater
- +1 Gold
- +3 Culture. Bonus increases to +5 Culture if City have 2 or more Religions.

=======

===
The Malays (Srivijaya)

Leader : Dharmasetu (m)

U.Ability :
Malay Realm
+2 Faith per city with the same religion as the Capital.
During a Golden Age, naval units receive +10% Combat Strength bonus and may heal damage Outside of Friendly Territory.

U.Unit :
Lanchara
Replaces Trireme
- Can enter rival territory without open borders
- Unit battles contribute double the amount of points towards earning a Laksamana

U.Unit :
Laksamana
Replaces Great Admiral
- Can Disembark onto land tiles.
- While providing the same effects as a normal Great Admiral, the Laksamana can create Golden Ages. The Laksamana is consumed when performing this action.

=======

===
Burma (Toungoo)

Leader : Bayinnaung (m)

U.Ability :
Pagan Innovations
+15% Production towards buildings with Faith.
+20% Production when building Military Units in the city that go into "We Love the King Day", and that new Military Units gain +1 Movement.

U.Unit :
Tatmadaw
Replaces Horseman
- 50% Bonus vs Melee
- 1 additional attack per turn (Blitz)

U.Building :
Hollow temple
Replaces Temple
- Requires no Gold maintenance
- The city enters "We Love the King Day"
- +2 Faith

=======

So, in another words..,
Javanese = Empire with dozen tributary states and strong culture..
Malays = Religious Empire with naval orientation..
Bamar = Empire of ten thousand temples backed with strong army..

What do you think??

 

[chrissifniotis]

Ah, it seems I haven't posted my Zulu idea here. I'll do that later today, it does focus on experience and promotions for an early advanced army.

 

[krc]

Knights of st john as a civ.

Capital would be Valetta.

Special unit would be Knight of St John.

Special building could be Watchtower.


Short and sweet..

Hmm. When I saw the title, I thought this was going to be a very different sort of proposal. And, since I don't believe that St. John will be turned into a full-scale civ any time soon, let me describe the alternative proposal that came to mind when I read the title.

Right now, militaristic CS allies can give you one UU belonging to civs not in the game. But, as the OP notes, there is a "natural" UU for Valletta that could be unlike any of the existing UUs: the Knights of St. John. (This would, of course, be some kind of Knight replacement, with details to be worked out.)

So, here's the alternative proposal. Every militaristic CS gets its own UU. Instead of giving a random UU from some other civ, it will give you that UU during the period when you have the correct technology for it. The details would have to come from designing a UU for each militaristic CS.

Moderator Action: Merged threads as this topic belong in this thread. Added the quote above to give proper context.

 

[chrissifniotis]

Hmm. When I saw the title, I thought this was going to be a very different sort of proposal. And, since I don't believe that St. John will be turned into a full-scale civ any time soon, let me describe the alternative proposal that came to mind when I read the title.

Right now, militaristic CS allies can give you one UU belonging to civs not in the game. But, as the OP notes, there is a "natural" UU for Valletta that could be unlike any of the existing UUs: the Knights of St. John. (This would, of course, be some kind of Knight replacement, with details to be worked out.)

So, here's the alternative proposal. Every militaristic CS gets its own UU. Instead of giving a random UU from some other civ, it will give you that UU during the period when you have the correct technology for it. The details would have to come from designing a UU for each militaristic CS.

...

I love the idea of CS UUs, but that might over-complicate the strategy involved. Would you mind elaborating this some more? Like does each CS have one or more UUs at King John's disposal?

 

[Pouakai]

I take it to be like this:

CS: Valletta
UU: Knight of St. John

CS: Budapest
UU: Hungarian Hussars (Couldn't find anything better)

CS: Kathmandu
UU: Gorkha

Each CS would have its own UU, which it could build as part of its military or (If militaristic) gift to their allies / friends with the appropriate tech

 

[chrissifniotis]

Yea, I got that, though I'd say it should only be available for Militaristic CSs, since they are the only ones who provide them as allies. But there are other questions; like compared to the civ UUs how strong are they? I don't mean to complain, it simply seems overly complex.

Anyway, I've remembered! Here's my Zulu idea;

Zulu - Shaka
Military Revolution - All Melee units start with Shock I. All Ranged units start with Accuracy I.

Unique Unit - Impi, replacing the Pikeman;
75 Production or 150 Faith (-15P/-30F)
14 Combat Strength (16 - 2)
3 Movement (2 + 1)
Available at Horseback Riding (1 tech before Civil Service)
-
+50% vs Mounted
Enhanced Flank Attack

Unique Building - Ikhanda, replacing the Barracks;
75 Production
1 Maintenance
-
+15 XP for all new units in the city.
+1 additional XP for every 2 Social Policies; max at 15.
All new Melee units gain Mobility.

 

[MARDUK80]

If I played your Impi idea above, I would declare war on the most distant civ and rake in the golden ages from my double happiness with no worries. Or just declare war on a CS. The UA seems easily abused. Giving all Zulu units the Terror promotion (its the same thing right?) is a good idea.

Interesting idea for the Impi. I like it being pushed up the tech tree from its usual spots. We tend to forget UBs don't have to match the unit they are replacing.

Yeah, you're right. Perhaps the Terror promotion only is sufficient enough as unique ability. No need for easily abusable happiness bonus.

In my opinion Impi as musketman replacement would fit the best for the Zulu and be most historically accurate and it's even much more fun if UU's replacement doesn't match with the original (ala Hunnic Battering Ram - spearman replacement), I think.

I edited Ikhand UI a bit as it gave way too much bonuses. Food/Production bonus and giving access to the resource ist is built on is powerfull enough:

UU: Impi (image). Replaces Musketman. Cost: 110/260 (instead of 150/300). Combat: 20 (instead of 24. Movement: 3 (instead of 2). Can pillage enemy improvements at no additional cost. Starts with March* promotion.

UI: Ikhanda. Replaces Fort. Prerequisite Techs: Engineering. +1 Food and +1 Production to the tile and unlike regular Fort it gives access to a resource in the tile. Like regular Fort it improves a hex's defensive bonus by 50% for units stationed in that hex. Note: can only be built on Resource tiles.

UA: Asibesabi Siyabafuna!: Enemy units receive -10% Combat Strength when adjacent to any Zulu combat unit.

 

[MARDUK80]

Sumer
Gilgamesh
Land of Two Rivers - Rivers work as roads inside friendly borders and so can connect Trade Routes. +1 Culture per river tile that connects a Trade Route
Capital: Ur
Colours - Purple and Salmon - (((O)))
Unique Unit: Vulture, Replaces Spearman. More expensive, but starts with Cover I and a 20% boost against melee units
Unique Building: Ziggurat, Replaces Temple. More expensive than temple, but has one artist specialist and one engineer specialist, and boosts culture and production in the city by 15%.

Sumer
Leader: Gilgamesh
Capital: Eridu
Starting Bias: Desert/River/Plains
Music Theme: from Music of the Ancient World
Unique Unit: Phalanx. Replaces Spearman. Techs with Mining, not Bronze Working. Cost 56. Strength 8, not 7. +100% combat bonus VS Mounted Units.
Unique Building: Ziggurat. Replaces Temple. Cost 120, not 100. Maintenance 2. Specialist 1 Artist. +3 Culture. +25% Science.
Unique Ability: Puppet Dictator. Instead of puppeted city-states producing buildings they will produce soldiers. This ability can be changed back to buildings by going into the 'View City' screen. Once the puppeted city begins producing buildings you cannot change it back to units. To produce units you must annex the city.+15% bonus to unit production.

Shall we discuss about Sumeria again?

Above are the old suggestions for the Civ. I think Unique Unit: Vulture, Replaces Spearman. More expensive, but starts with Cover I and a 20% boost against melee units and Unique Building: Ziggurat. Replaces Temple. Cost 120, not 100. Maintenance 2. Specialist 1 Artist. +3 Culture. +25% Science are pretty fitting, but I dislike both UA's. Also I'm not very enthuatistic about Gilgamesh as the leader. There just isn't enought educated information about him. In my opinion Sargon the Great would suit much better as the Sumerian leader.

Some background information to help to build our suggestions:

Sumer:



- By the late 4th millennium BC, Sumer was divided into about a dozen independent city-states, which were divided by canals and boundary stones. Each was centered on a temple dedicated to the particular patron god or goddess of the city and ruled over by a priestly governor (ensi) or by a king (lugal) who was intimately tied to the city's religious rites.
- The empire was bound together by roads, along which there was a regular postal service. Clay seals that took the place of stamps bear the names of Sargon and his son.
- the Sumerians loved music, which seems to have been an important part of religious and civic life in Sumer.
- The Sumerians were among the first astronomers, mapping the stars into sets of constellations, many of which survived in the zodiac and were also recognized by the ancient Greeks. They were also aware of the five planets that are visible to the naked eye.
- The Sumerians were the first to use a place value numeral system. There is also anecdotal evidence the Sumerians may have used a type of slide rule in astronomical calculations. They were the first to find the area of a triangle and the volume of a cube.
- Sumer was also the site of early development of writing
- The almost constant wars among the Sumerian city-states for 2000 years helped to develop the military technology and techniques of Sumer to a high level.
- The Sumerian military used carts harnessed to onagers. These early chariots functioned less effectively in combat than did later designs, and some have suggested that these chariots served primarily as transports, though the crew carried battle-axes and lances.
- - They may have invented military formations and introduced the basic divisions between infantry, cavalry, and archers.
- Sumerian cities were surrounded by defensive walls. The Sumerians engaged in siege warfare between their cities, but the mudbrick walls were able to deter some foes.
- a Sumerian army consisting mostly of infantry. The infantrymen carried spears, wore copper helmets and carried leather or wicker shields. The spearmen are shown arranged in what resembles the phalanx formation, which requires training and discipline; this implies that the Sumerians may have made use of professional soldiers.
- They developed the first known codified legal and administrative systems, complete with courts, jails, and government records.


Sargon:



- famous for his conquest of the Sumerian city-states
- regarded as the first person in recorded history to create a multiethnic, centrally ruled empire,
- that it was Sargon who built Babylon "in front of Akkad."
- Sargon defeated an invasion by the four leaders of Elam, led by the king of Awan. Their cities were sacked; the governors, viceroys and kings of Susa, Barhashe, and neighboring districts became vassals of Akkad
- Sargon laid the city of Kazalla to waste so effectively "that the birds could not find a place to perch away from the ground."
- Sargon’s success came from his original approach to warfare. At the time, most armies marched onto the field weighted down with heavy arms and armor and arrayed in tight formation. Sargon’s warriors wore light clothing and carried only a sword and a dagger. The could attack the clumsy battalions of the enemy in a kind of blitzkrieg charge, then break ranks to reform and attack again before their enemies had time to recover


How about:

Leader: Sargon the Great
Capital: Ur
Unique Unit: Vulture. Replaces Spearman. More expensive, but starts with Cover I and a 20% boost against melee units
Unique Building: Ziggurat. Replaces Granary. Cost: 80 not 60. Maintenance: 1. +2 Food. +2 Happiness.
Unique Ability: ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertile_Crescent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyres_of_Ur

I was thinking about an additional Pantheon Belief (Lyres of Ur) and bonus to Farms but didn't get any "lightbulb" ideas... Though Sumer could also have some kind of City-State, Science or Military bonuses.

Any ideas?

 

[Beefie]

Leader: Sargon the Great
Capital: Ur
Unique Unit: Vulture. Replaces Spearman. More expensive, but starts with Cover I and a 20% boost against melee units
Unique Building: Ziggurat. Replaces Granary. Cost: 80 not 60. Maintenance: 1. +2 Food. +2 Happiness.
Unique Ability: Praise to Ishtar-Cities founded on rivers gain +10% growth and produce +1 faith. All culture bulidings provide +1 food.

Not incredibly engaging though.

If I was to go outside the box with the ziggurat I would go:
Unique Building: Ziggurat. Replaces lighthouse and becomes available at Calendar. Cost: 90 not 75. Maintenance: 1. +2 Food. +1 faith per two river tiles.

 

[chrissifniotis]

Eh, I still like Gilgamesh more, even though we do know more about Sargon. But I have an idea for Sargon, albeit derived from Mongolia, but it seems like a good representation;

City-State Empire - Allied City-States provide 25% Science as they normally produce. All land units gain 50% Combat Strength when fighting City-State units.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Here are a few ideas:

1) Annexed city-states get a free Courthouse & 10% bonus to food

2) Puppeted cities generate less unhappiness and +2 culture per turn.

 

[Kurtbob]

This is a tall civ with cultural and growth bonuses and an early UA with a high offensive capability.

Civ: Sumer
Leader: Sargon
Capital Ur
Unique Ability: Fertile Crescent: +20% growth in all cities during a golden age.
Unique Unit: Vulture - Replaces Warrior. Begins with Formation I and Cover I.
Unique Building: Ziggurat - Replaces Shrine or Temple. Adds one Artist specialist slot.

The UA depicts the importance of agriculture and flood waters in Sumerian society. Golden ages are a natural gauge of Enki's devinity during the harvest.

I figured there are enough Spearman uniques, so I made the Vulture a warrior replacement with two promotions that grant it phalanx capabilities. While weaker than spearman, early rushes by Vultures would be devastating and they also upgrade into intimidating swordsman.

The Ziggurat was the religious, military, political, and civil center of Sumer society. High priests controlled the highest echelons of society from atop these massive structures, safe from societal interference, military attack, and rising flood waters. I think an artist slot depicts this hierarchy well and would give the Sumerians an early cultural boost in their larger cities. I prefer it being a shrine replacement, but a specialist slot might be too powerful that early in the game.

 

[MARDUK80]

Great ideas Beefie, chrissifniotis, Eagle Pursuit and Kurtbob !

I especially like "Puppeted cities generate less unhappiness and +2 culture per turn and Annexed city-states get a free Courthouse & 10% bonus to food."

Would it be too powerful if the bonuses are combined to one UA ?

I have to say Sumer wasn't in my top five most wanted Civs for the 2nd expansion, but after this second look it definitely is now. Superbly fascinating Ancient Civ. Hopefully it will get in (and Sargon as the leader ).

Okay, my new proposal with UA which is heavily focused on Culture, Ziggurat UB as a Library replacement which gives Happiness (reminding Sargon's legacy of being the first person in recorded history to create a multiethnic, centrally ruled empire) and Civ III* comeback; Enkidu Warrior UU - a fierce warrior and prophet - gaining Faith from Kills and much stronger than regular Warrior.

Civilization: Sumeria
Capital: Ur
Leader: Sargon the Great
Music Theme: from Music of the Ancient World (with Lyres)
UU: Enkidu Warrior (IMAGE). Replaces Warrior. Cost: 50/100 (instead of 40/80). Combat: 10 (instead of 8). Movement: 2. Earns 50% of opponents' strength as Faith for kills.
UB: Ziggurat. Replaces Library. Cost: 75. Maintenance: 1. +1 Science for every 2 Citizens in this City.+ 2 Happiness.
UA: Lyres of Ur. + 1 Culture from Flood Plains and Receive free Great Artist when you discover Calender. Earn Great Artists 50% faster.

* http://www.civ3.com/conq_prof_sumerians.cfm

Unique Unit: Enkidu Warrior

The Enkidu Warrior is named for Enkidu, a near-savage man created by the Sumerian god Anu to accompany and aid Gilgamesh on his quest for immortality. Enkidu was a fierce warrior and prophet, and the Sumerian armies strove to emulate his ferocity in battle and his iron loyalty to the King.

The Sumerian Enkidu Warrior is a very tough early defensive unit.

 

[chrissifniotis]

That's very interesting, a lot like a rebutile to Babylon's Great Scientist bonus.