Civ 5 digital deluxe coming exclusively to Steam! Steamworks confirmed!

[The_Coyote]

Oh the poor oppressed masses scalded by Steam! How terrible that they are not safe under the protection of Securerom, starforce or whatever ubisoft has this month.

There is no need for sarcasm Senethro, it´s a valid point to see the number of steam users not equal to the number of person who gladly use steam, are satisfied with steam. With more and more games requiring steam both figures can be seen as not equal (the open questions would be: to which amount they differ?).

If i would use the figures like you supported they are for steam because of the use of your sarcasm (and of course the way i read your post), i would be allowed to say: Hey, millions of games have been sold with SecureRom or similar DRMs, all of them must be lucky, satisfied and glad users of this DRMs (they use it and bought a game with this DRM).

 

[The Almighty dF]

That is his opinion. You have your opinion that you state is fact, which is not.

No, what I bolded was him passing off a mixture of lies and his own opinions as fact.

As to your other statement...

"If you lived in a society which committed mass genocide on a regular basis, you would be one of the blind cattle that would agree with the ones doing it to you."

...What?
No, seriously. I can't even make a reply to that. -What-?

Moderator Action: Don't call other users liars
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[tom2050]

What I pointed out of yours that "Fact: Steam is popular" was also a mixture of lies and you stated your opinion as fact.

You attacked the other guy because he disagreed; saying he is lying and stating opinion as fact; yet you did the same thing based on a faulty assumption of popularity. Attacking someone and protecting DRM for a reason of popularity is similar to "If Jimmy jumped off the bridge, would you?".

I don't mind Impulse, but it doesn't mean I love it. I am skeptical of that program as well, and will not defend that program's issues. Steam has hordes of issues, it is just like new releases of a Microsoft Windows OS for many people. It has good things also, but Steam has done vile things in the past, such as purposely locking out buyers to the games they bought legally (orange box).

Moderator Action: Flaming - warned
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[PieceOfMind]

Pro Tip: Not everyone thinks like you.
Just because you randomly hate something for little reason doesn't mean everyone else feels the same.
Fact: Steam is immensely popular, something that you can easily check for yourself by starting it up and checking the amount of active users.

That is his opinion. You have your opinion that you state is fact, which is not.



Immense popularity cannot be determined by the amount of users online. A percentage of those users are forced online and forced to use Steam against their wishes in order to play games they have purchases.

Yep, I'm one person using Steam who for the most part doesn't want to, especially for a game like civ. You'll need to subtract at least 1 from that number if you want to know it's popularity.

 

[Rebel44]

I don't mind Impulse, but it doesn't mean I love it. I am skeptical of that program as well, and will not defend that program's issues. Steam has hordes of issues, it is just like new releases of a Microsoft Windows OS for many people. It has good things also, but Steam has done vile things in the past, such as purposely locking out buyers to the games they bought legally (orange box).

Only cases that I know of Steam banning accounts were when those users tried to scam either other user (phishing) or Valve (for example buying games using stolen CC) + those who were caught selling accounts (which is against EULA).

 

[arstal]

They also do it for chargebacks, valid or not. There also was a case of them locking thousands of people who bought games legally out of region- no refunds given.

Whether Steam is "popular" or not doesn't matter. It's sales that matter.

Also, for many games there are alternatives to Steam, and they don't sell as well. So obviously there is some reason people choose Steam, even if it's just simple-minded inertia or lack of knowledge of the better alternatives.

 

[ori]

Moderator Action: Flaming and trolling is unacceptable and will stop now.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Rebel44]

They also do it for chargebacks, valid or not. There also was a case of them locking thousands of people who bought games legally out of region- no refunds given.

Whether Steam is "popular" or not doesn't matter. It's sales that matter.

Also, for many games there are alternatives to Steam, and they don't sell as well. So obviously there is some reason people choose Steam, even if it's just simple-minded inertia or lack of knowledge of the better alternatives.

Steam EULA is clear that chargebacks arent allowed (they were often abused by users). Steam sometimes make exception - but for that to happen you have to communicate with their support.

Some games are region locked when you buy them in Russia, Thailand etc. where they are offered for fraction of normal price (to combat piracy). People abused this by buying lots of copies there and selling them to users in USA, EU etc. so Valve used region lock on copies sold in those countries. I know someone who was affected by this (he worked in Russia for some time and while he was there he bought several games with such restriction) - all he needed to do was to contact Steam support and explain his situation to them - they unlocked those games.

 

[EmpireOfCats]

Steam does regional locks for legal reasons, too. For example, German officials are hysterical to the point of self-parody about violence in computer games (CounterStrike is the root of all evil, you see) and enforce a bloodless version of the zombie shooter Left 4 Dead. If you order that game via Steam in Germany, you get the censored, low-blood, low-fun version. However, since you can legally own the international, high-gore, high-fun version -- Germans just oder it via Amazon Germany, where the comments helpfully explain why the expurgated version is crap -- you can play that on Steam, too: Just type in the number from your international copy.

In other words, Valve is has to follow German law in implement regional locks, but they do it in a way that if you have half a brain, you as a gamer still have access to the originals. They are making the best of the situation.

 

[Senethro]

If you lived in a society which committed mass genocide on a regular basis, you would be one of the blind cattle that would agree with the ones doing it to you.

Edit: I thought better of my post. I'll just let this quote stand on its own.

 

[Angelscotboi]

Well.

I am so totally not going to reply to that almighty fella except to say that i find him to be exceptionally rude just because I have a different experience with steamworks than he did and a differing opinion from him.
I already said that I was sorry if he felt that I was talking in absolutes. I wasnt - I was merely speaking from my own experiences with the program and company thus far (which is that the program is an appalling invasion of my right to privacy and my right to choice and the company is an appalling monopolistic entity). Perhaps I should have clarified my post/opinion by explaining why i felt the way I do instead of saying it in a later post, but I wont apologise again.

Perhaps I came across as putting my "opinion as fact" simply because I felt that my reasons for disliking the program were fairly self evident - really obvious flaws that I assumed everyone was aware of and didnt like also.
I wasnt discounting the programs perks - I simply object to being forced to install a 3rd party program in order to play a game ive paid good money for. Not only that but said program HAS to run to play the games that "require" it and they have to be online.
And yes I know there is an offline mode but that doesnt work properly; it still requires you to go "online" periodically to verify the game again and again (at least that was my experience with Empire TW). I shouldnt EVER have to run a 3rd party program to play a game, never mind a single player game, unless i CHOOSE to. And i thoroughly resent being forced.
The program itself caused a slow down in later in game years, and intermittent crashes to desktop, in Empire TW for me and when I emailed CA about they told informed me that Empire wasnt causing the problem and that i should email Valve. I emailed Valve and they said exactly the same thing - that it was Empire not Steamworks. Who do I believe?
I have never had CTDs with any total war game - nor did I have slow downs the way Empire slowed down in the later game years (anywhere up to 5 minutes for a single turn). CA/Sega support seemed to make an effort to investigate what I was saying (or at least they were nice about dismissing me) where as Valve support took AGES to get back to me and basically told me that I was havering and there couldnt possibly be anything wrong with their program. Which company do I go with on this one? The one that was nice to me or the one that was frankly rude, dismissive, and arrogant?

I dont like the whole concept of steamworks. Running a program I dont need in order to play a game that ive paid good money for that requires me to verify it periodically for as long as I own and play the thing. I really dont agree with it - I think its appalling business practice. In no other industry except the PC gaming industry would a company get away with this sort of thing.
And the answer that "Its to protect against piracy!" is bull. Brad Wardell at Stardock Systems researched it a few years back and im sure he found that piracy accounted for much less game usage and loss of revenue for games companies than publishers and others would claim.
I firmly believe its about control, and profit - and that is it.

As to the other discussions here I cant really venture an opinion on because I dont even know if ALL versions of the game will require steamworks or only the digital deluxe edition will require it. I hope its the latter then I could still buy a hard copy from my local games store in that case.

I am really looking forward to Civ 5 and I really hope firaxis isnt going down this route.

 

[Senethro]

So you did complete the Empire: Total War installation and play it? How did you return the software license along with your installation disks?

And we've had the word of god on the matter that Steamworks will be in all versions.

 

[Angelscotboi]

So you did complete the Empire: Total War installation and play it? How did you return the software license along with your installation disks?

And we've had the word of god on the matter that Steamworks will be in all versions.

I just took it back to the store i bought it from. They accepted it without a problem.

Thats a shame but thank you for answering my question.

 

[arstal]

Steam EULA is clear that chargebacks arent allowed (they were often abused by users). Steam sometimes make exception - but for that to happen you have to communicate with their support.

Some games are region locked when you buy them in Russia, Thailand etc. where they are offered for fraction of normal price (to combat piracy). People abused this by buying lots of copies there and selling them to users in USA, EU etc. so Valve used region lock on copies sold in those countries. I know someone who was affected by this (he worked in Russia for some time and while he was there he bought several games with such restriction) - all he needed to do was to contact Steam support and explain his situation to them - they unlocked those games.

Not allowing chargebacks = Steam can screw up royally, and you have no recourse. They could charge you $300 for a game instead of $30, and if you stop that from happening, you lose all games.

Chargebacks are often abused, but they have a legitimate purpose.

As for region locking, that's Valve's own fault. No reason to punish smart consumers.
Hopefully no European is complaining, because it's the same thing companies do to rip off Europeans in comparison to Americans.

20 euros > 20 dollars, for now at least.

 

[The Almighty dF]

Well.

I am so totally not going to reply to that almighty fella except to say that i find him to be exceptionally rude just because I have a different experience with steamworks than he did and a differing opinion from him.
I already said that I was sorry if he felt that I was talking in absolutes. I wasnt - I was merely speaking from my own experiences with the program and company thus far (which is that the program is an appalling invasion of my right to privacy and my right to choice and the company is an appalling monopolistic entity). Perhaps I should have clarified my post/opinion by explaining why i felt the way I do instead of saying it in a later post, but I wont apologise again.

Opinion: To me, Steam is bad.
Not an opinion: Steam is universally hated.
Opinion: Having to connect online even once is dumb.
Not an opinion: Valve has a video game based monopoly.
I don't care if they're your experiences.

 

[tom2050]

You continue to "parent" other people in what is opinion and fact; yet I will point out again that you have made opinions and stated them as fact yourself.

 

[Angelscotboi]

Opinion: To me, Steam is bad.
Not an opinion: Steam is universally hated.
Opinion: Having to connect online even once is dumb.
Not an opinion: Valve has a video game based monopoly.
I don't care if they're your experiences.

Im sorry I know I said I wouldnt reply but you are a rude pathetic little troll and I hope you get banned.

Seriously. I already said that I hadnt meant to come off as I was talking in absolute facts. I was trying only to convey my opinion - which I am entitled to.
Ive already apologised for the confusion.

Whatever the heck your problem is I suggest strongly you get over it before you get the thread locked. Id say before you get yourself banned but im hoping you do.

If you misread what I said (which you clearly have if your last post is anything to go by) and continue to "misunderstand" in spite of my clarification which the other guy who disagreed with me seemed to understand just fine then thats your problem not mine but if you have any sense whatsoever you will stop being a troll and let the topic return to a civil discussion.

EDIT:
Thank you for sticking up for me tom but please don't get yourself banned on my account or the account of a sad arguementative troll.

 

[Senethro]

It is my opinion that your opinion of your statements of facts is counterfactual. It is a fact we can have little opinion about absolute statements made without the speaker asserting they were opinions.

 

[civ_king]

Is it me or is this thread getting hot in here?

 

[MaxCiv]

Is it me or is this thread getting hot in here?

On the contrary, I think it is running out of Steam!

I think both sides have exhausted all arguments pro and con and now we are just going around in circles.