Civ 6 diplomacy is the same as civ 5 vanilla

[pietro1990]

Doubt it.

As far as pericles - is anyone talking about the fact that he could have been bribed to join in the war? For anyone in the camp that the weights behind trade deals are still way off, then that means Germany could have bribed the very Friendly Pericles into war with far less than what it should actually take for someone with such positive modifiers to switch sides. Making something that will likely be impossible, possible. Such as trading away most of your stuff for one luxury. Which is likely not a "feature" of the game.

Bingo I thinx that is the problem. The Ai values certain trade deals wrong. For example relics worth NOTHING in this les play he bought a relic for 1 gold.

AI values joint war the same regardless of positive modifiers. Thats why percelis atacked marborzir

fix = make AI joint war value verry high if they have friendly relation with target and low if it hates it.

 

[Big J Money]

I wish we would please stop posting such click-baity threads. It's got to be insulting to Firaxis.

 

[Mort_Q]

I wish we would please stop posting such click-baity threads. It's got to be insulting to Firaxis.

I'm sure they have thick enough skin to handle it.

 

[pietro1990]

I wish we would please stop posting such click-baity threads. It's got to be insulting to Firaxis.

Or realising they need to change some things.

 

[MistyRonin]

I wish we would please stop posting such click-baity threads. It's got to be insulting to Firaxis.

It's quite unfortunate, specially when like in this case they are clearly false.

I can understand that the Civ VI diplomatic system may not be liked by everyone (I would personally like more options and a clear ui), but claim that is the same as Civ V is absurd.

 

[Furycrab]

Or realising they need to change some things.

But where you see a problem, some people just don't. I think the AI is a bit on the passive end of things and the difficulty doesn't help (especially when most of the players given the demo are meant to play on a much higher difficulty).

I don't want an AI that carefully respects my border space and plays a game of 100 turns no rush and where my neighbors become my BFF. I want my neighbors to be the most likely ones to not like me because on some level they covet my lands, and I want my friends to be the guys at the other end of the world that knows helping each other won't hurt it's personal interest for a long time.

The biggest problem in 5 was you couldn't do something proactive to someone who settles in your face. Because the city could shoot from turn 1 and that taking the city resulted in having to deal with a crappy city that would require an expensive courthouse only added to the problem. Now if you aren't happy, do something about it, or settle faster and hope the AI can't do something about you. Now the city can't shoot from turn 1, and once the war is over, any cities you took are effectively the same as your own.

Personally I'm hoping the AI can make strategic decisions like decide it can or can't forward settle you because of your military. We won't be able to tell on this preview build, but it'll be interesting to watch in the final product, on higher difficulties.

 

[Stringer1313]

If the AI were more predictable then people would complain that the AI was too manipulable (see Civ Beyond Earth expansion). And acting on hidden agendas makes total sense and it simply means you need to figure the agendas out.

Having said all of this they should do a better job of having the modifiers more accurately reflect the things that cause AI to declare surprise wars, maybe enhance the negative modifier from close borders or something.

 

[notque]

I have a feeling civ 6 will be a bad game just like civ 5 vanilla because of the diplomacy

I have a feeling diplomacy is going to be a big mess. Am i the only one who has this concern after watch those live streams? Share your thoughts.

I have a feeling that there is a diplomacy AI, and that it is flexible. I think it's possible that it hasn't been QA'd well specifically, and feel confident that we will be able to correct the issues on release. Especially true if we get the source for the DLL.

 

[pietro1990]

I have a feeling that there is a diplomacy AI, and that it is flexible. I think it's possible that it hasn't been QA'd well specifically, and feel confident that we will be able to correct the issues on release. Especially true if we get the source for the DLL.

I am olso confident they can fix it. However from the streams on youtube i thinx there has to be A LOT OF WORK to fix issues and its only a few weeks before release

 

[fmm]

3) Personalities in Civ5 affected the actions of civs (ie, ally city states or invade them) not diplomacy. Although, of course, it did affect diplomacy indirectly. Agendas are the opposite, they only affect diplomacy and - from there - affect how the game plays out.

Agendas affect gameplay as well as diplomacy: e.g., the AI might try to have the largest navy, or try to befriend the most city states, or try not to remove features (environmentalist), etc.

 

[pietro1990]

I think that many issues I've seen people bring up were not real issues, and just misunderstandings due to the actions of the AI not being understood.

I think that the Diplomatic issue with Marb likely had to do with being paid to join a war, and just involves tweaking that setting. So I think it's a problem with Deal AI, and not Diplomacy AI.

I think that CTDs are a real issue that needs addressed, as well as other visual updates not happening.

We'd have to talk about more specific issues to get to details. I think for example the "spanish settler" issue from Marbs games was not a bug, but the AI working as intended given that he was blocking tiles.

If Civilians acted like they do in VP, we would have not seen what happened with that settler occur.

The question is will we see changes before the launch.

 

[Big J Money]

I'm sure they have thick enough skin to handle it.

Is that what you normally say to people whom you respect that you insult?

Or realising they need to change some things.

Put yourself in their shoes. You're a game developer and you appreciate feedback. What feedback do you think you'll be more likely to listen to, an exaggerated insult or a polite, well thought out and well spoken suggestion?

It's a fallacy to associate my statement of "there's no need to insult the developers" with "there's no need to offer feedback".

 

[thecrazyscot]

The diplomacy looks to be far more involved and transparent than Civ V was at release...if you think otherwise I don't think you remember Civ V Vanilla very well at all.

That being said, of course the diplomacy is not going to be perfect at release. There's going to be multiple patches to fix minor (or even unintended major) flaws with it. That's what happens when such a complex system - and let's be honest, a good diplomacy system is not simple - is released to the public. Unintended issues are going to be found and AI behavior is going to be tweaked and optimized.

The diplomacy AI, from the looks of the LPs, is going to be functional at release, with a lot more flexibility than Civ V had at release, but it will certainly not be without flaws. Fortunately I think we'll be starting at a much higher base level than before, though.

 

[stealth_nsk]

The question is will we see changes before the launch.

We will see changes at launch (about a month of active development will not come unnoticed). The question is - which ones.

 

[Morningcalm]

Yea, I'm worried about how inconsistent the AI is. One turn they can like you, one turn they can hate you. No hidden agenda should be so powerful as to cause such a switch as a regular part of the game. Civ IV's diplomacy was the gold standard for being consistent (i.e. you could have lifelong friends if you played your cards right, and depending on the AI personality in part). Civ VI's diplomacy appears to fall far short.

 

[pietro1990]

We will see changes at launch (about a month of active development will not come unnoticed). The question is - which ones.

I doubt they will fix all these issues at launch.

most problems are :
hidden agenda's are to big cause random destruction of relationship.

Ai doesn't count relationships when joining a joint war

 

[stealth_nsk]

I doubt they will fix all these issues at launch.

most problems are :
hidden agenda's are to big cause random destruction of relationship.

I don't see it as a problem, really. Most hidden agendas favor developed civs, so early game relations are quite easy not to ruin. And you generally discover those hidden agendas pretty quick and could use them to build relations, not destroy them.

Ai doesn't count relationships when joining a joint war

It does. In Marbozir videos the friendship between England and Germany clearly affected joint wars. There are other miscalculations which come into play once more items are added on the table, but they look like calculation bugs, which could be quite easy to iron out. Of course, it still can be not as easy as it looks.

 

[Big J Money]

Yea, I'm worried about how inconsistent the AI is. One turn they can like you, one turn they can hate you. No hidden agenda should be so powerful as to cause such a switch as a regular part of the game. Civ IV's diplomacy was the gold standard for being consistent (i.e. you could have lifelong friends if you played your cards right, and depending on the AI personality in part). Civ VI's diplomacy appears to fall far short.

I distinctly remember not liking Civ IV's diplomacy but I don't know why anymore. Maybe because it was so predictable.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I distinctly remember not liking Civ IV's diplomacy but I don't know why anymore. Maybe because it was so predictable.

Trading discovered pieces of map for money. Trading techs to make fools of AI. Orchestrating AI wars. Yes, it was more manipulation than diplomacy.

 

[gunnergoz]

I see this as false equivalence based on symptom rather than cause. Civ VI has the agenda system that will at some point in the game reveal the motives for AI behavior. I was never able to figure that out in Civ V. But no doubt press release is still buggy so there's that too.