CIV Gold - Balance issues

[Fierabras]

Please post your balancing issues in this thread. If you think a certain UU or UB is over- or underpowered, let us know.

Reported issues:

by MrPopov:

Brasil's UB is overpowered. +1 in ALL cities for each Estadio de Futbol?

Scythian Stables giving march promotion to ALL units all the way to Advanced Flight seems a bit much.

The Siamese Ho Trai (replacement for Library) gives +40% research. I would either increase the cost, or remove the 2 scientist slots since libraries are such a staple build in just about every city.

The Tibetan Gompa seems underpowered. only +1 culture and 2 priest slots doesn't seem that great to me.

Scottish Mercat Cross is along the same lines as the ho trai. Mabye remove some of the resource happiness bonuses or the 3 merchant slots?

The Maori Pa is not just a castle upgrade, it's a spanish citadel upgrade! retains all the citadel bonuses (+5 siege weapon exp) plus 2 more naval experience and -50% bombard damage (double from the -25%) all for the same cost. Castles do have a short lifespan though.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Just a couple of quick comments - when looking at balance, try to look at similar UBs. Most Gold UBs were based on others, with something taken away and something else given. Balance can be deceptive due to eras and what it takes to get to a specific UB, etc.

Having said that...

Thanks for the comment on the Pa, as I must have based it mistakenly on the Citadel instead of the Castle.

I will look at the others.

Admittedly, balance for UBs and UUs have been the most overlooked aspect, especially since we didn't revist Gold 1.0 or 2.0 units after changes from Warlords and BtS to the main Firaxis game.

Any volunteers to help with this??

 

[MrPopov]

yea you have a point, and I am no CIV expert, but the Brasil UB really stood out to me as overpowered.

But I guess the scottish UB (+50% gold market) is about on par with the Roman UB (+25% GPP Market) when I think about it.

I would love to help in any other way I can. I will look closer at the UUs and see what stands out as either over or underpowered.

I am so glad you guys made the civs modular. Makes importing them into other mods so easy

 

[Agent327]

Damn! Another thread to keep an eye on! (Just kiddin'...)

 

[Fierabras]

I have to agree on the Brasil UB. Compared to the Colosseum which it replaces, it already has an extra +1 and +3 , so the +1 global seems a bit too much.

Updated the <iGlobalHappiness>1</iGlobalHappiness> to 0 for CIV Gold 4.0.

Updated the Maori Pa as well. Removed the bonus for siege weapons.

 

[Wyz_sub10]

I would love to help in any other way I can. I will look closer at the UUs and see what stands out as either over or underpowered.

Do you have Excel?

If so, set up a spreadsheet and group the units by replacement. For example:

Civ | Unit | Replaces | Cost | Power | Moves | Bonus 1 | etc.

Then you can quickly compare all infantry replacements, all knight replacements, etc.

Same thing with the UBs.

This is something I've been meaning to do and it would be a *very* useful exercise.

 

[TheLastOne36]

The Maori Pa is not just a castle upgrade, it's a spanish citadel upgrade! retains all the citadel bonuses (+5 siege weapon exp) plus 2 more naval experience and -50% bombard damage (double from the -25%) all for the same cost. Castles do have a short lifespan though.

Why not just make the Spanish Citadel better? Castles aren't usually built, Requires walls and have a short lifespan. Makes sense doesn't it? Perhaps you could make it so that the Citadel doesn't require walls while the Mauri Pa does?

 

[Fierabras]

Why not just make the Spanish Citadel better? Castles aren't usually built, Requires walls and have a short lifespan. Makes sense doesn't it? Perhaps you could make it so that the Citadel doesn't require walls while the Mauri Pa does?

We try to stay away from changing the default Firaxis civs (and their UB's and UU's) in CIV Gold. Adding custom leaders, changing <ArtStyleType>, <UnitArtStyleType> and <DerivativeCiv> are the only exceptions on this rule.

 

[Agent327]

Why not just make the Spanish Citadel better? Castles aren't usually built, Requires walls and have a short lifespan. Makes sense doesn't it?

I almost always build Castles, as they also give an Espionage boost - but then again, I almost never build Spies (just raise my Espionage point total by building everything that boosts it).

 

[TheLastOne36]

I almost always build Castles, as they also give an Espionage boost - but then again, I almost never build Spies (just raise my Espionage point total by building everything that boosts it).

Does the Espionage bonus stay after you research economics?

 

[Fierabras]

I have updated the Scottish Mercat Cross as well. 50% gold modifier instead of the usual 25% for markets is too overpowered. With the extra merchant you could turn a food rich city into a money-machine way too easy. I have changed it to 35%.

Updated Hotrai as well. 40% down to 35%. For the Scythian stable I have changed the March promotion to the Mobility promotion.

 

[Agent327]

Does the Espionage bonus stay after you research economics?

I suppose that's a rhetorical question? (I plan my research so I get the most advantage from building Castles before Economics, then switch civics to Nationhood; that way I keep up my Espionage level until I get all the information I want for free - without ever building a Spy.)

 

[Mknn]

Then you can quickly compare all infantry replacements, all knight replacements, etc.

Same thing with the UBs.

You mean, like this?

 

[Mknn]

Along a similar line as this thread, the following UB's are identical and should probably be differentiated in some way.

Canadian Microwave Station and Australian Sports Stadium.

Honestly, neither of these ever made much sense to me. I would probably replace them both, the Canadian with a Market relacement (Trading Camp) that gets an extra 5% commerce, plus 1 and 1 from fur; and the Australian with a Colosseum replacement that can still be a Sports Stadium, but has some additional happiness/culture mods.

German Assembly Plant and Polish Fabryka

I would propose making the Fabryka slightly cheaper (225) and reducing it to providing a single additional engineer.

The Celtic Dun and the Croatian King's Tower

Maybe make the Dun cheaper, or change the promotion that the King's Tower grants?

 

[Wyz_sub10]

Canadian Microwave Station and Australian Sports Stadium.

Honestly, neither of these ever made much sense to me. I would probably replace them both, the Canadian with a Market relacement (Trading Camp) that gets an extra 5% commerce, plus 1 and 1 from fur; and the Australian with a Colosseum replacement that can still be a Sports Stadium, but has some additional happiness/culture mods.

The Australian UB has been replaced with it's 2.0 version (the 3.0 version used the UB from another mod). The 2.0 version is along the lines of what you suggest.

The Microwave Tower fits because communications has been the focal point of Canadian tech development, especially during the post-WWII heydays.

German Assembly Plant and Polish Fabryka

I would propose making the Fabryka slightly cheaper (225) and reducing it to providing a single additional engineer.

I'll look into that, thanks.

The Celtic Dun and the Croatian King's Tower

Maybe make the Dun cheaper, or change the promotion that the King's Tower grants?

Another good suggestion.

 

[Mknn]

More ...

The Ogichidaa is identical to the Medjay Militia. I would recommened reducing the Ogichidaa's movement to 1 and giving them either the Cover or Guerilla I promos.

Also, incredibly minor detail: Ogichidaa is spelled wrong (Ochidaa) in the Civlopedia entry.

The Mambise and the Boer Commando. Rec: Lower the Mambise's cost to 105, or give the Mambise Sentry or Flanking I instead of Mobility.

The Rathin and the Huluganni. I would give Combat I or Formation to the Huluganni to reflect the historical innovations of Hittite chariots. Also, minor again: the Civlopedia text on the Rathin should read and gains an not and gain both a.

More as I find them ...

 

[Mknn]

The Moorish Cavalry and the Vytis. Rec: Give the Moorish Cavalry Mobility, reflecting the flexibility of camels (although I don't know that the invasion of Spain was done on camels as opposed to horses).

The Redcoats and the KuK Infantrie. Rec: Dunno. Maybe give the KUK Formation, instead of the bonus. The units will start out equivalent, but the Redcoats will have one additional promotion available to them. Or, make the Redcoats a little cheaper to reflect their numbers? I dunno.

One more minor point that doesn't belong in this thread: the entry for the Priest King isn't linked to the Harappan Empire page, nor does it identify the unit as Harappan.

 

[Fierabras]

Thanks, Mknn. We'll take al your suggestions in consideration. The Harappan Priest King was indeed badly hooked up, because I made a last minute change and did not test it properly.

 

[Mknn]

In the next week, I'll be doing the same thing for the UB's. Do you want those posted here, in the tech support thread, or in a new thread? That will result in an updated set of spreadsheets that I will post as well which should contain detail about all the UU's and UB's in Gold.

Woot! 100 Posts!

 

[Fierabras]

Preferably in this thread as a single post with attachments to those spreadsheets.