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CIV Gold - Balance issues

Discussion in 'Civ4 - CIV Gold' started by Fierabras, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. Mknn

    Mknn Chieftain

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    The Buildings need—in my opinion only, of course—a lot more revision than the Units. There are a bunch of over-powered buildings, especially when they are compared to other civilizations that modify the same type of building. As such, I have addressed these in sections by the type of building being replaced. My stress here has just been coming up with ways to address duplicates and some of the more egregious examples of buildings being overpowered.

    Sorry for the length of this … and, of course, reject/modify as you want.

    Colosseums

    The Athletics Complex is identical to the Odeon. I would change the Athletics Complex to +1 Culture, +1 Happiness, +10% Hammers, but remove the 2 Artists.

    In light of its Health benefit, I would drop the Sauna to +2 Culture.

    Courthouses

    The Seven Fires and the Maloca. I would drop the Maloca to +1 Happiness instead of +2.

    The Ziggurat. Shows as requiring PRIESTHOOD, not CODE OF LAWS.

    The Fanum is stronger than the Longhouse. I would take away the maintenance bonus for the Fanum, and change it from 1 Priest to 1 Free Priest.

    Factories

    The Fabryka and the Assembly Line. See comments earlier in thread.

    Forges

    The Igloo and the Potter. Make the Happiness bonuses resource specific: Fur, Whale, Ivory for the Igloo and Rice, Wheat, Corn for the Potter.

    Grocers

    The Woolshed’s Civlopedia entry is incorrect—the text doesn’t match the descriptive list, so I’m not sure what it actually does.

    Monuments

    It just seems a little odd that the most powerful ancient culture items are Armenian and Olmec. I would increase the cost of the Stone Heads, and change the Khachkar to +1 Culture. In doing this, I would add a +1 Happiness to the Bora Ring.

    Stables

    The only real thing here is that it seems odd that the Batavian Stables outpower the Ger. I would recommend that the mounted supremacy of the Mongol Horde be preserved.

    Theatres

    The Opera House is listed with a cost of 120, which seems awfully steep.

    The Salegy Hall and the Pavillion. The Salegy Hall should not be as strong as the Pavilion—maybe dropping its additional culture to 10% or 15%. The Salegy Hall could also be reduced in cost to 45.

    Theatres

    None of the custom walls (Dun, King’s Tower, Diwars) are differentiated—all provide Guerilla I. Vary the promotions, and/or the price.

    That’s it!

    As a next project, I would move some of these around: there are 10 custom courthouses, 10 custom colosseums, and 10 custom theatres.
     
  2. Fierabras

    Fierabras Chieftain

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    This building (including it's changed requirement) is from default BTS, not CIV Gold.
     
  3. Mknn

    Mknn Chieftain

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    Understood on the Ziggurat. Gold 4.0 Spreadsheets are attached.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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  5. Mojoqmeyvam

    Mojoqmeyvam Chieftain

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    I mentioned the Nipa Hut (Filipino) on the error list as being bugged (+10hammers instead of being either +10% hammers or +1 hammer). I still think that +10% or +1 hammer is a little overpowered for a granary, since it gets built everywhere so early, but if the Nipa Hut is supposed to boost production, that's along the lines of "really good UB" instead of being an "I win" button.

    Others that are overpowered:
    The Nez Perce have the Hatchery, which gives +2 food on water tiles as a lighthouse. One of the other lighthouse UBs adds +1 food to the city square and +1 health, which seems about right; maybe make this +1 food and +1 happy?

    Navajo Hogan: +50% culture from a market, as well as the gold. Make it +25% to match the Pavilion for theaters? Cultural victories don't always spam markets, but a free cathedral is too much of a bonus.

    Baktrian Mint: +25% gold and +25% hammers for a forge. Mali's Mint only adds +10% gold (and 2 culture, which is nice).

    Underpowered:
    Opera House is underpowered at 120 cost, and adding 2happy as a theater. It could be a little more expensive (say, 60).

    Iran's Bioresearch Centre: Takes away the -1 unhealthiness from the Laboratory. For a building that comes so late, just getting one more health is really weak. Maybe have it provide a +1 or +2 health bonus as well, or buff the beakers and/or spaceship production bonus?

    There's some others (the "Cheaper courthouse" UBs that cost 110 instead of 120 come to mind...the Ziggurat costs 90, and comes earlier, and the Aztec Sacrificial Altar costs 90, and gives the anger-reduction bonus)
     
  6. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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  7. Mojoqmeyvam

    Mojoqmeyvam Chieftain

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    I had some extra time today, so I've got a list of all of the UBs. This includes all of the ones included in the unmodded game, mostly for comparison purposes. One file includes my commentary/balance suggestions, one does not. I tested a few of the UBs to double-check they worked like how I thought they did (e.g., the buildings that give promotions only give them to units which can accept those promotions, and that the Braal (South Africa) does not give the Health Bonuses of a Supermarket, even though the Civilopedia text says otherwise). Feel free to use them as you wish. I organized the UBs by the building they replace, since that's the easiest way to see balance. I doubt I'll do the same for the UUs, although "Ignores Terrain Movement Cost" is rather useless for 1-move units :crazyeye: (Coyote Warrior of the Toltec comes to mind. It's a Maceman with 9 Str and "Ignores Terrain Movement Cost").
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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  9. Mojoqmeyvam

    Mojoqmeyvam Chieftain

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    Thanks. Here's the same thing for the UUs. I'm more leery of my ability to suggest what is and isn't balanced for these, and it's basically the same set-up as the UBs. Also, overall I think there aren't as many that need a lot of tweaking (Except I have no idea what to do with the warrior UUs. The HOF people have very intentionally removed the Inca from their competition b/c of the Quechua). The organizing will help us see "Wait, this guy's in all ways better than that one, what gives?".
     

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  10. Wyz_sub10

    Wyz_sub10 CIV Gold - Project Lead

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  11. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Huhh. Finished the first version of balancing the UBs. It was a lot bigger work than i expected in the first place.
    It's a pain in the ass to balance 10-13 same type UBs with not just each other, all the other similar bonus giving ones (at least at 150+ civs)...
    I hope i'll have enough free time in the weekend to do the first version of UUs too, but no promises ;)

    It is in the main thread, but I post here too to reach you, Mojo. I hope u are still around and can help me finalizing this.
     
  12. Mojoqmeyvam

    Mojoqmeyvam Chieftain

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    Thanks. I'll take a look at it eventually; school's keeping me busier now. I looked over some of it briefly, and it looks good.
     
  13. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

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    Cool. I hope other fans join our balancing project with some suggestions on the other thread, till u have time to do that...
     

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