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Civ Illustrated #1 (Know Your Enemy)

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by Kaitzilla, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Yes, I tend to agreed though the -1 for having a vassal has already been deducted from my Diplomacy with Ragnar. How is the combined Diplomacy computed? Simple average or is the vassal weighted 1/2 to the player's weight of 1? Ragnar has -7 Diplomacy with my vassal, so I need to lose that vassal to get a Defensive Pact.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  2. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    From how I understand it, it's half and half. I'm not certain though, so I said "combined" :crazyeye:

    Maybe Tachywaxon knows for sure.
     
  3. vranasm

    vranasm Deity

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    the UI lies to you.

    The stand between you and Ragnar is influenced by the situation between your vassal and Ragnar.

    It's one of things TmIt likes to rumble about when criticizing CIV.
     
  4. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Just wanted to say, that I use this guide, of which I myself wrote quite a lot, quite often, as AI behaviour is so much, that if one wanted to know this all, one would have to study CIV.

    Kaitzilla, all the other Civ Illustrated Members and at last me wrote this, so playing Deity without having to study CIV is possible, but also to help everyone else.

    It's gotten really well, a big thanks and :gj: to everyone again!
     
  5. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I use it now and then too. Recently I was exploring Peace Vassals and this came in handy.
     
  6. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Now I feel bad for not mentioning you and the guide in my acknowledgements after winning my first deity game. I think the guide has been very important for me to be able to reach to that level and you have my sincere gratitude.
     
  7. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    You're welcome.

    I think it was Kaitzilla who said, that this guide would create new Deity players, which would be the ones to bring new life to high lvl play in these forums.

    I'm glad to actually see this happen, and think all of the team feel joy about this.

    Giving credits btw. is something important, where & when doesn't matter that much, important is that one does give back, as not doing so can be cause to certain illnesses.

    Be careful,

    Seraiel
     
  8. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    I've played better, but I'm still nowhere near deity. :lol: Glad to see you back, Seraiel.
     
  9. Seraiel

    Seraiel If you want anything from I please ask in German

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    Got something for you happyturtle :D

    Sneak preview of whats probably gonna get Replay #8:

    Spoiler :



    As you died so often in Replay #6, I made you a Siege weapon this time ^^ You even got Pizza, mutated and became a Great-General Siege Weapon of ultimate destruction :lol: .

    Cya.
     
  10. happyturtle

    happyturtle Mrs GrumpyOldCivver

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    Haha! I remember when I got my very first Great General in Civ, I didn't know what I was doing and accidentally attached it to a catapult. :lol:
     
  11. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    Minor flaw:

    Shouldn't it be "techs that do unlock units or buildings", since AI ignores that "monopoly condition" regarding techs that don't (Monarchy, Printing Press etc).
     
  12. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    I actually wanted to cut the phrase out entirely and write "Will trade techs to human when 30% of the other AIs also know the tech", but this game mechanic wasn't completely understood by the Civ Illustrated team at the time.
    I could have written "that don't unlock lots of units or buildings" or "that do unlock only a few units or buildings" and feel justified saying either. :hmm:


    But!
    Thanks to the entirely underappreciated researcher Tachywaxon's extreme efforts, it might now be possible to predict with 100% accuracy when an AI will trade a non-monopoly tech to you. :dance: :dance: :dance:
    This information has been in the public domain long enough (1 year + 2 days) to no longer be a secret weapon for SGOTM teams.
    I will link it here from its original SGOTM16 Kakumeika thread post:


    So, "We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet" appears to have been definitely solved if you don't mind using a spreadsheet :D



    **Edit**
    Now that I look, I see I'll have to explain the health bar trick. Give me a day.

    If the spreadsheet could be tested a bit more by people during actual games (windowed mode? or maybe a lot of alt+tabbing? more than 1 monitor $_$), I will rewrite the "We don't want to start trading away this technology just yet" section on the front page to feature it.


    And if you like this app, please check out Tachywaxon's personal thread on game mechanics. Full of good info and theories.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=464503
     
  13. Lone Wolf

    Lone Wolf Deity

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    I see. Perhaps a "value modified by the units and buildings the tech unlocks" might be better?
     
  14. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Hmm, perhaps this wording?:

    Will trade techs to human when 30%* of the other AIs also know the tech.
    *This value scales higher depending on the number of military units, non-religions buildings, and uncompleted wonders unlocked.​


    Trying to keep it as short and simple as possible :)


    @WastinTime below
    Ya, tried to leave the long explanations at the start of the guide.

    I just can't for the life of my devise a short and accurate way to phrase it by myself
    Updated again for what I think you mean as suggestion and I thank you for it :)




    Also, I now agree that the number of turns before an AI will talk peace with 0 war success can be included if it is accurate info. Will test it.
    The longer explanation and math to perform calculations with negative or positive war success and threatening cities using Aggressive AI setting can be put at the start of the guide.

    Also, can probably include border tensions and the diplomatic threshold for demanding vassal resources without possibility of war and loss of vassal.
     
  15. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    maybe this notation:

    30%*
    * depending on...
     
  16. Folket

    Folket Deity

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    Demanding things from vassals would be great to know.
     
  17. Kaitzilla

    Kaitzilla Lord Croissant

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    Here is the health bar trick so you can estimate the strongest:strength: unit in the game to accurately use Tachywaxon's tech trading tool.


    First, open up your game options using the escape button and in the graphics tab select "Show Health Bars"




    Zoom in as close as you can onto your strongest unit in your real game and take a screenshot.

    Next, open a test game up and use worldbuilder to add units until your unit has about the same health bar as your real game unit.

    Spoiler :






    Once the real game unit's health bar matches the test game unit's health bar when comparing screenshots, the strongest:strength: unit in the real game has the same strength as the strongest:strength: unit in your test game :)


    If someone doesn't know how to take or access civ 4 screenshots, I can talk them through it in this thread.

    Pro tip: If you have 500 screenshots, don't delete screenshot number 100 through 300.
    If you do that and take more screenshots, Civ 4 will save them as Screenshot 100, Screenshot 101, Screenshots 102 etc in the middle of your screenshot folder and you will drive yourself insane wondering why the game doesn't seem to be putting new screenshots into your folder. You will have to take 200 screenshots before you start seeing 501, 502, etc. :hammer2:
     
  18. HBHR

    HBHR Chieftain

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    Awesome guide :goodjob: great, great job. Thanks Kaitzilla and other :worship: to favs
     
  19. Jelloholic

    Jelloholic Chieftain

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    Been using this a fair bit, but have question regarding when the AI stops plotting war.

    Basically say Wang starts plotting (against me). I get him up to pleased, but he will still declare after a couple of turns. I can beg 1gpt to get a 10 turn peace treaty, but is there a certain mechanic that directs when he will stop plotting?

    Basically, he can't plot at pleased, but can remain plotting at pleased if he's already started. Is there anything I can do to stop him plotting? (assuming he can't be bribed onto someone else)
     
  20. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

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    Discouraging the AI to pursue their war plannings is generally not possible. Begging to received an enforced peace treaty will solely delay the inevitable. Indeed, if he started plotting at CAUTIOUS, whatever the attitude of the present time, he will commit his petty war.

    Still, I am sure some have seen those rare and strange behaviours where the AI gives up and gets out of plotting. It's mostly an independent choice related to the AI development. Basically, in the very definition of war planifications, the AI has to crank up a decent flow of units with specific scripts (mainly UNITAI_ATTACK, UNITAI_CITY_ATTACK, etc) relatively to its empire development. If the empire grows too fast relatively to the military investment according to a certain threshold, then the AI gives up any war planning. Most probably it's coded that way to express an AI with a weak production capacity or the lack of need started a war for expansion because the empire's strong growth is indicator of the large unclaimed lands just acquired (expansion phase). So basically, everything that helps in their growth may help in abandoning their war plans. Of course, giving cities/settlers would be more absurd than giving in to the war. But sharing more health/happy resources may raise their happy/health cap, thus allowing you to gamble a little on that.

    Otherwise, remains the cases of tribute refusals. Those war plans are decided when you refuse a tribute and are special in how to dismantle them: the enforced treaty suffices to dispel their intentions.

    At last, the most common way to divert their attention is bribing someone onto them, but beware, that won't work on a sneak attack (tribute refusal) or the bribe takes the form of an AP resolution.
     

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