Civ V Civilizations Roster

[bonafide11]

Wow, so there's only two possible Civs left, and Spain, Persia, and Greece are all out? I'm sure it will be two of those three. I wonder who they left out? I'm guessing Persia, since they left them out of Civ Rev too.

 

[EMT]

I'm not saying Arabs are the same thing as Ottomans. I'm just saying that they are all part of the Islamic Empire. Which is already in the game. That's all.

Having Ottomans and Arabs is like having Sparta and Athens. Why put both in when they are both Greek. I know they were quite different, but the bottom line is that Greece is already in the game, so you don't need Sparta or Athens.

Or Qing and Han. Why put either of those, when China represents them both?

The USSR is represented by Russia. They're not going to put both, even though they are different.

There are many examples of nations which are represented in the game by other empires.

Apparently, Fireaxis and most people that posted after you think you're wrong? I'm guessing you think Turks are not Europeans too. Islam wasn't nearly as important to the Ottomans as it was to the Arabs. The Ottoman janissaries where ex-Christians, btw. Half the army was Christian. I think you need to read more about the Ottomans.

 

[Insanity_X]

so, we're looking at 3 civs and 4 leaders missing. I'm guessing the mayans, zulus and greeks will be in (for another Civ in America, another power civ in africa and because let's face it The Greeks are pretty much untouchable respectively). As for leaders, Shaka's obvious, the Greeks will probably go for Alex (though Perseus or one of the many other ancient Greek leaders would also do), It'll probably be Hayna Capac of Inca again and whoever was Inca's leader in BTS will reprise the role in CiV.

 

[Shiggs713]

yea thats tough now knowing some new ones are in. Somebody is going to be upset their favorite civ or leader gets left out I'm sure now. I don't see how Spain or Greece could get left out, but then again, there's already too many euro civs. Zulu I don't think really deserves to be in, but they are a tradition in civ, so who knows. I'm guessing that since they're holding nothing sacred anything could happen, but hopefully that doesn't mean turning the series on its head. The new IGN review seems to confirm they're headed in the right direction.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Alright, Firaxis will NEVER EVER in their right minds leave Greece out. That would just be blasphemy. That would be like leaving Germany out of a World War II game.

Basically, so Greece is guaranteed a spot. I'm placing my bets then either on Spain or Persia as the next civ. However, since the Ottomans are already in (quite a surprise for me, but, alright), I'm thinking Spain has the better chance.

Oh, and... Ramses II! YES! YES! YES! EAT THAT, HATSHEPSUT AND CLEOPATRA! (not that Ramses was that great a leader... but much better choice!)

 

[bonafide11]

Oh, my bad, there's THREE civs left unannounced. It has to be Persia, Greece, and Spain. The Songhai are the African civ in the game, so Mali, Zulu, and Ethiopia are out.

It'll be the Civ Rev roster with the Songhai replacing the Zulu, and the additions of Persia and the Ottomans.

 

[EMT]

Alright, Firaxis will NEVER EVER in their right minds leave Greece out. That would just be blasphemy. That would be like leaving Germany out of a World War II game.

Basically, so Greece is guaranteed a spot. I'm placing my bets then either on Spain or Persia as the next civ. However, since the Ottomans are already in (quite a surprise for me, but, alright), I'm thinking Spain has the better chance.

Why the Greeks should be in is undeniable, they're as relevant post-Rome as Hungary. Their language continued to influence the land around them for centuries. Modern Greeks may not like to hear this, but Modern Greece is composed of Christian Anatolians, the descendants of the Ancient Greeks, and assimilated Slav migrants. Sorry, but it's true. Essentially, Greece is to Europe as Babylon is to the Levant. Important area for most of history, but the actual civilization in context hasn't been there for much time. Here's my comparison:

Ancient Greece-Ancient Babylon
Roman Greece-Persian Babylon
Turkish Greece-Arab Babylon(area)
Modern Greece-Modern Iraq

The people are completely different, except the only case in major difference is that Modern Greece speaks a variation of the ancient language.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Almost every single historian would agree that Greece is the true beginning of Western Civilization. Babylon, Egypt, and Phoenicia may have had a heavy influence on Greece (and personally they really did in my opinion), but Greece is essentially the beginning of Western Civilization.

And anyhow, the Greece represented in the game is ANCIENT Greece, not the more or less not-aso-powerful Modern Greece. Say what you will, but to the Western-centric audience Firaxis caters to, Greece can NOT be out of a civilization game, since they ARE the very epitome of civilization - and even for someone who is not of Western descent, I can only agree with that.

 

[bonafide11]

You guys are confusing me. There's 15 confirmed Civs, so there's room for 3. Why are you debating whether it should be between Persia, Greece, or Spain? It'll be all three.

 

[cybrxkhan]

You guys are confusing me. There's 15 confirmed Civs, so there's room for 3. Why are you debating whether it should be between Persia, Greece, or Spain? It'll be all three.

Yeah, I just realized the mistake you made earlier with 2 vs. 3 civs left (no offense).

However, what EMT is saying is that Greece is too insignificant to be a civilization in the vanilla game.

 

[EMT]

I agree with what you say, and yes, Fireaxis is Western Centric, but Greece MIGHT be left out. It could be a nice shocker for a suprise. Babylon is to Persia what Greece is to Rome and Egypt is to.....both? Egypt is in because of all the wonders, unique culture, and how the Egyptians are transplanted into the brains of Western children because of MUMMIES OMG, Greece has a bunch of wonders too, and Babylon has the Ishtar Gate and the Hanging Gardens. But Babylon wasn't in Vanilla Civ4. Maybe they might take it a step up and kick Greece off for some downtime. It'd be a first, and I'm very certain I'll be proved wrong, but it's still fun to discuss the possibility and reasons.

EDIT: When did I say Greece is insignificant? I said Greece is ancient, so is Babylon, so there's a precedent.

 

[cybrxkhan]

I agree with what you say, and yes, Fireaxis is Western Centric, but Greece MIGHT be left out. It could be a nice shocker for a suprise. Babylon is to Persia what Greece is to Rome and Egypt is to.....both? Egypt is in because of all the wonders, unique culture, and how the Egyptians are transplanted into the brains of Western children because of MUMMIES OMG, Greece has a bunch of wonders too, and Babylon has the Ishtar Gate and the Hanging Gardens. But Babylon wasn't in Vanilla Civ4. Maybe they might take it a step up and kick Greece off for some downtime. It'd be a first, and I'm very certain I'll be proved wrong, but it's still fun to discuss the possibility and reasons.

Alright, cool. I thought you were suggesting that Greece was nothing but a bunch of run-down useless hillbillies in the middle of nowhere.

Not to sound too rude, but I am certain that you will be proved wrong. I mean even without a Western-centric point Greece does stand out, in my opinion. Sort of like how Persia and Arabia were extremely important to the development of Middle Eastern civilizations, so is Rome and Greece extremely important to Western civilizations.

Of course, since there are 3 civ slots left, my bets are placed on Spain, Greece, and Persia. They could replace Persia with Babylon or Sumeria thought, so don't give up hope!

 

[Shiggs713]

So the consensus is Greece, Spain, and Persia. Thats good with me. I'm hoping for Alexander and Cyrus again, but I'd be happy to see Isabella gone.

 

[EMT]

Basically, but I'd love to see Ethiopia. But no one seems to have brought up one possibility: If the Ottomans where in the trailer, and they appeared in game, what if the Vikings are in too!

 

[say1988]

I'm not saying Arabs are the same thing as Ottomans. I'm just saying that they are all part of the Islamic Empire. Which is already in the game. That's all.

Let's see, Islamic states:

Mali, Arabia, maybe Persia and (at a great distance) Egypt and India

Nope, no Islamic Empire. Just Arab Caliphates and a African Islamic Empire.
Once again, they are no closer than France and England. After all, the King of England was crowned the King of France. I guess we should dump the French.

Sounds like Askia is a renamed Shaka Still have a crazy African warrior.
Bit disappointed about Ghandi. Ashoka or another older ruler (an actual ruler) would be better.

Budapest, Rio, Florence and other city states will help cover some of those promoted civs that aren't included, though, true, it isn't the same.

I will say Greece is definitely in and probably the Vikings, but I could see another new civ or ancient Mesopotamia is the last slot.

 

[cybrxkhan]

Basically, but I'd love to see Ethiopia. But no one seems to have brought up one possibility: If the Ottomans where in the trailer, and they appeared in game, what if the Vikings are in too!

If the Vikings were in that would really be bad (no offense if you like them). I think you can make the argument for the Ottomans being in the vanilla game, but the Vikings? Come on, put in Persia and Spain and Babylon and what not before them.

 

[King Jason]

I agree with what you say, and yes, Fireaxis is Western Centric, but Greece MIGHT be left out. It could be a nice shocker for a suprise. Babylon is to Persia what Greece is to Rome and Egypt is to.....both? Egypt is in because of all the wonders, unique culture, and how the Egyptians are transplanted into the brains of Western children because of MUMMIES OMG, Greece has a bunch of wonders too, and Babylon has the Ishtar Gate and the Hanging Gardens. But Babylon wasn't in Vanilla Civ4. Maybe they might take it a step up and kick Greece off for some downtime. It'd be a first, and I'm very certain I'll be proved wrong, but it's still fun to discuss the possibility and reasons.

EDIT: When did I say Greece is insignificant? I said Greece is ancient, so is Babylon, so there's a precedent.

But Greece is far more iconic than Babylon to the mainstream, and just as Iconic as Egypt, if for their mythology alone. Most people could probably name a greek myth or at least somewhat get a reference... Few people probably know of Babylonian culture... It is likely that far more people have heard of Alexander than Hammurabi or Nebuchadnezzar.

I don't think it's a fair comparison because I'd say Greece is indisputably far more popular than Babylon, and even Persia. It's probably more popular (certainly just as) than Egypt.

 

[Seventh Child]

I'm a little worried for Greece. The introduction of City States and some of the confirmed city states could mean a demotion. It's still difficult to tell though. They're by far my favourite civilization.

If they do make it in though, I'd probably like to see someone other than Alexander.

 

[bonafide11]

Yeah, I just realized the mistake you made earlier with 2 vs. 3 civs left (no offense).

None taken Someone else implied that there were only two more spots open, so that's why I assumed that. Then I counted them and realized there were only 15 Civs.

 

[Mango Elephant]

Ignore this post