Civ VII Weekly Reveal Guessing Thread

[Krikkit1]

Because there are two unconfirmed slots left and we've seen pretty strong evidence for Russia and Germany. That doesn't mean there's no chance for Britain in the base game, but the evidence does seem to point to its absence.

Which makes me think that since a standard game involves 8 players, they will only be the 8 confirmed/semi revealed

HARD CONFIRMED
Mexico
America
France
Buganda
Mughal
Meijii

semi-confirmed
Siam

then strong speculation
Qing

and leave the remaining 2 up for later
Russia?Prussia/Germany?Britain?Ottomans?Maori?Joseon?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Agree and disagree.

Britain, England, or the United Kingdom needs to be in the base game. It could have a hundred other civs, but without England, it’s of a kind with the EA and Ubisoft fare that is purposefully shipped incomplete in order to sell core content as DLC separately.

I would be more than annoyed with the omission of the largest global empire in history

To me it really feels like the Normans are taking that spot in the base game. Not that I particularly would have agreed with it, as I'd probably rather have a proper Exploration Age England, but it is what it is.

 

[Xandinho]

To me it really feels like the Normans are taking that spot in the base game. Not that I particularly would have agreed with it, as I'd probably rather have a proper Exploration Age England, but it is what it is.

In place of the Normans, I'd have included the HRE, making it the German representation in the base game. Then, I'd place the British in modern. Later, we could have England in exploration and modern Germany. As things stand, I don’t think we’ll see exploration England.

 

[BlueWildRye]

As things stand, I don’t think we’ll see exploration England.

Which is depressing, because I would love to see the return of an overpowered longbowman unit again. And a lot of other England related things, too.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In place of the Normans, I'd have included the HRE, making it the German representation in the base game. Then, I'd place the British in modern. Later, we could have England in exploration and modern Germany. As things stand, I don’t think we’ll see exploration England.

I do think a Carolingian/Frankish civ would have been a better steppingstone into Modern France, rather than the Normans, as well as into Modern Germany/Prussia.

 

[notNamed]

Let's look at the facts. The game has 2 European representatives for the era, Spain and X.

• X's wonder is the White Tower in London
• X's districts are motte-and-bailey castles (not "motte castrale" or anything that would steer this in the direction of similar structures outside England/Normandy)
• X has a Domesday Book (land and ownership survey of England) civic tree
• Bayeux Tapestry tradition, again a tapestry of an English battle that is one of the most important English national relics
• Sokemen, i.e. freemen living in Danelaw, that is again a phenomenon unique to English law

And you folks still go: "Mi'lord, Firaxis sire... may we humbly plead for the inclusion of England in thine game?" The Normans are England. The non-English elements of Norman holdings range from minimal (usually where they are iconic both on the continent and in England, like the Chevaler) to completely absent.

Moderator Action: Removed text that constituted trolling. Please express your ideas without the appearance of talking down to others.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

Let's look at the facts. The game has 2 European representatives for the era, Spain and X.

• X's wonder is the White Tower in London
• X's districts are motte-and-bailey castles (not "motte castrale" or anything that would steer this in the direction of similar structures outside England/Normandy)
• X has a Domesday Book (land and ownership survey of England) civic tree
• Bayeux Tapestry tradition, again a tapestry of an English battle that is one of the most important English national relics
• Sokemen, i.e. freemen living in Danelaw, that is again a phenomenon unique to English law

And you folks still go: "Mi'lord, Firaxis sire... may we humbly plead for the inclusion of England in thine game?" The Normans are England. The non-English elements of Norman holdings range from minimal (usually where they are iconic both on the continent and in England, like the Chevaler) to completely absent. How hard did the education system fail you to not see it as clear as day? It's like I showed you a picture of a pair of Victorians sipping on some tea in a meticulously arranged British garden and a village straight out of Clarkson's Farm in the background titled "Darjeeling tea" and you'd go "Oh yeah, this is such a marvelous depiction of India, but I wanted to see Victorian England instead, what a shame. Hopefully we'll introduce the English, maybe give them Redcoats. India is fine but a bit disappointing, y'knowhaddaymean?"

Of those, in game you only experience the gameplay effect, not the label, except for units when you build them.

You know what aspect of a civ you do have shoved in your face for most of the game? The city list. It's the distinguishing factor above all others for a civ in game, and it's french.

Mind you, that's probably by the by as your cities will all be named with greek or Roman or whatever antiquity city names barring your french capital.

I can't emphasise enough how much these Dev decisions irk me around city lists, seeing it in gameplay is like someone dragging their fingernails over a chalkboard to me.

 

[notNamed]

You know what aspect of a civ you do have shoved in your face for most of the game? The city list. It's the distinguishing factor above all others for a civ in game, and it's french.

Do you have the list somewhere? Because I've quickly skimmed through the footage and didn't see any, the wiki only has Rouen for the capital.
Rouen, Londres,... would seem perfectly fine here.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

Do you have the list somewhere? Because I've quickly skimmed through the footage and didn't see any, the wiki only has Rouen for the capital.
Rouen, Londres,... would seem perfectly fine here.

So first of all, you strongly asserted "The Normans are England", and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with acknowledging Rouen as the capital and that being perfectly fine? If they were indeed interchangeable as they are one and the same, then would it be perfectly fine for a civ called England to have a capital of Rouen, and a second city called Londres? I think very few people would agree that is perfectly fine.

Second, you are right we don't have the city list yet, but the one we do have is fundamentally not English and it is the capital, and that is indicative enough to me to think this is going to be geographically french norman flavoured. Maybe we'll get some splashes of english and Italian cities too.

And then we have other useful guiding evidence, like Normandy into he civ V scenario, whose city list you can see here. https://civilization-v-customisation.fandom.com/wiki/Normandy_(William_I)

Now I know that's not evidence of what their city list will be in 7, but it's certainly indicative of the flavour of the civilization so far and where some of the inspiration is coming from.

But all of this is moot beyond the capital that we know anyway, as you will have Rouen, some city that have antiquity names, and then if you're lucky some of your new city list as colonies on a far away continent, all of which is just grating to me sadly.

 

[chaosprophet]

Which makes me think that since a standard game involves 8 players, they will only be the 8 confirmed/semi revealed

Albeit all streams so far have been smaller than standard maps. So my guess it will be a game with only the 6 confirmed ones.

 

[Krikkit1]

Of those, in game you only experience the gameplay effect, not the label, except for units when you build them.

You know what aspect of a civ you do have shoved in your face for most of the game? The city list. It's the distinguishing factor above all others for a civ in game, and it's french.

Mind you, that's probably by the by as your cities will all be named with greek or Roman or whatever antiquity city names barring your french capital.

I can't emphasise enough how much these Dev decisions irk me around city lists, seeing it in gameplay is like someone dragging their fingernails over a chalkboard to me.

Which is why they should let players choose their civs name and city list
so you could go
Rome-Norman-Britain
and keep the Roman name and city list the whole time
or the Ming city list the whole time
or go from Rome-British city list in Exploration (and decide whether old cities change or stay the same)

 

[notNamed]

So first of all, you strongly asserted "The Normans are England", and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with acknowledging Rouen as the capital and that being perfectly fine? If they were indeed interchangeable as they are one and the same, then would it be perfectly fine for a civ called England to have a capital of Rouen, and a second city called Londres? I think very few people would agree that is perfectly fine.

Second, you are right we don't have the city list yet, but the one we do have is fundamentally not English and it is the capital, and that is indicative enough to me to think this is going to be geographically french norman flavoured. Maybe we'll get some splashes of french and Italian cities too.

And then we have other useful guiding evidence, like Normandy into he civ V scenario, whose city list you can see here. https://civilization-v-customisation.fandom.com/wiki/Normandy_(William_I)

I asserted that Normans are England and that people who have gone through standard education can clearly recognize this.
Obviously I cannot account for preschool kids or people in countries where history isn't a subject in school (just as an example, UNESCO's History of Africa raised the fact that several states in Africa choose not to include it in the curriculum at all), but the people throwing the arguments in these threads are not. In fact many are native Anglophones. I could understand if a Malay or Korean student scratched their head at what "Bayeux", "Rouen", or "Londres" (London in French) has to do with England but it's absolutely insane if someone from the US or UK lacks the cultural context necessary to understand it.
The other day I played a clip of a childhood movie, a 2001 comedy about knighthood filmed before Wikipedia, before Google became mainstream and everyone had access to internet. The movie has the audience of jousting compeitions rocking out to "We Will Rock You" and yet it still feels fine with making the announcers speak with a French accent, throwing French names and places (related to English history) without explaining them because clearly the audience has got some education behind them. Civ is a very welcoming series to people who have no concept of history but even so you still need to draw the line somewhere. And a nation that is included solely to please the Anglophone and Anglocentric audience really shouldn't be required to treat its audience as if they were pre-school children.

"Now kids, remember how we speak English despite living in the United States of America? That is because across the Atlantic Ocean there is this tiny nation called England... Back then countries were ruled by kings, who are like the POTUS but they hold their power for life and pass it on to their kids with no elections... A castle is this biiig house... okay, I'll stop now, you surely get the point."

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So first of all, you strongly asserted "The Normans are England", and I'm not sure how to reconcile that with acknowledging Rouen as the capital and that being perfectly fine? If they were indeed interchangeable as they are one and the same, then would it be perfectly fine for a civ called England to have a capital of Rouen, and a second city called Londres? I think very few people would agree that is perfectly fine.

Second, you are right we don't have the city list yet, but the one we do have is fundamentally not English and it is the capital, and that is indicative enough to me to think this is going to be geographically french norman flavoured. Maybe we'll get some splashes of french and Italian cities too.

Thier associated wonder is the White Tower however, which is located in London. Most uniques point more towards Norman England, even if the city list might not but I wouldn't put any stock in it until we see more. It very well could be Rouen and then the rest being on the island of Great Britain.

 

[Verified_Confection_Being]

I asserted that Normans are England and that people who have gone through standard education can clearly recognize this.
Obviously I cannot account for preschool kids or people in countries where history isn't a subject in school (just as an example, UNESCO's History of Africa raised the fact that several states in Africa choose not to include it in the curriculum at all), but the people throwing the arguments in these threads are not. In fact many are native Anglophones. I could understand if a Malay or Korean student scratched their head at what "Bayeux", "Rouen", or "Londres" (London in French) has to do with England but it's absolutely insane if someone from the US or UK lacks the cultural context necessary to understand it.
The other day I played a clip of a childhood movie, a 2001 comedy about knighthood filmed before Wikipedia, before Google became mainstream and everyone had access to internet. The movie has the audience of jousting compeitions rocking out to "We Will Rock You" and yet it still feels fine with making the announcers speak with a French accent, throwing French names and places (related to English history) without explaining them because clearly the audience has got some education behind them. Civ is a very welcoming series to people who have no concept of history but even so you still need to draw the line somewhere. And a nation that is included solely to please the Anglophone and Anglocentric audience really shouldn't be required to treat its audience as if they were pre-school children.

"Now kids, remember how we speak English despite living in the United States of America? That is because across the Atlantic Ocean there is this tiny nation called England... Back then countries were ruled by kings, who are like the POTUS but they hold their power for life and pass it on to their kids with no elections... A castle is this biiig house... okay, I'll stop now, you surely get the point."

You keep saying "the Normans are England" when what I think you mean is "The Normans are close enough to England".

The latter is subjective, and is not a matter of education but taste.

And I would certainly hope that geography is taught well enough wherever you are that people would know Rouen has never been the capital of England, so it's still incongruent to insult people's education whilst asserting "the Normans are England". No they clearly aren't - there elements of England within them, and elements of Norman french, and presumably elements of Norman Sicily too. Not all of those are England and England is not all of those things. They are different.

If you are happy they are a perfect representation of England in your books, that's all well and good, but it's not uneducated to have a different opinion than that, and it's certainly not to point out Rouen is not the capital of England...

 

[j51]

I think it being an anglophone made game with a presumably mostly anglophone audience it makes sense that fans would want to see particular things about medieval/early modern England that they find more iconic. Like longbowmen, and the cultural works of the Tudor period.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Which is why they should let players choose their civs name and city list

At least with regard to city names, I think they will. They've already done it in previous iterations. It's not difficult at all. And it instantly accommodates the players for whom that will enhance identification with their civ (i.e. mitigate the negatives of the civ-switching mechanic).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I think it being an anglophone made game with a presumably mostly anglophone audience it makes sense that fans would want to see particular things about medieval/early modern England that they find more iconic. Like longbowmen, and the cultural works of the Tudor period.

Having a Yeoman military UU and a Playwright civilian UU, with an Inns of Court unique quarter, would have been perfect.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Or a theater quarter. London's dramatic scene was in Shakespeare's era regarded as remarkable by European visitors (in a civ that was overall regarded as culturally backwards), and that was in part because there were rival theaters, the competition driving the playwrights to new heights of dramaturgical achievement.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

In place of the Normans, I'd have included the HRE, making it the German representation in the base game. Then, I'd place the British in modern. Later, we could have England in exploration and modern Germany. As things stand, I don’t think we’ll see exploration England.

England did exists as a country BEFORE Duc Guillaume de Normandie crossed the Strait and marched to Hastings.
And I saw another proporals even with their UU being Yeomanry. which should be ranged units, and can even replace Musketeers by the end of an era (though i'm not really convinced much. especially with English Longbowmen still remain an active tactical unit even in the English Civil War, one even developed the use of pikes and could switch conveniently switch weapons on the battlefield when needed. though much of their functions were artillery and supply escorts. Since their weapons had no risks of setting off gunpowder accidentially)

 

[Zaarin]

Let's look at the facts. The game has 2 European representatives for the era, Spain and X.

• X's wonder is the White Tower in London
• X's districts are motte-and-bailey castles (not "motte castrale" or anything that would steer this in the direction of similar structures outside England/Normandy)
• X has a Domesday Book (land and ownership survey of England) civic tree
• Bayeux Tapestry tradition, again a tapestry of an English battle that is one of the most important English national relics
• Sokemen, i.e. freemen living in Danelaw, that is again a phenomenon unique to English law

And you folks still go: "Mi'lord, Firaxis sire... may we humbly plead for the inclusion of England in thine game?" The Normans are England. The non-English elements of Norman holdings range from minimal (usually where they are iconic both on the continent and in England, like the Chevaler) to completely absent. How hard did the education system fail you to not see it as clear as day? It's like I showed you a picture of a pair of Victorians sipping on some tea in a meticulously arranged British garden and a village straight out of Clarkson's Farm in the background titled "Darjeeling tea" and you'd go "Oh yeah, this is such a marvelous depiction of India, but I wanted to see Victorian England instead, what a shame. Hopefully we'll introduce the English, maybe give them Redcoats. India is fine but a bit disappointing, y'knowhaddaymean?"

Yes, I would have been okay with Normans + England if the Normans as presented weren't so absolutely focused on the Normans' English holdings. Indeed, I've had liked the Normans better if there were more references to their Mediterranean adventures, especially the Kingdom of Sicily. As is, I would have preferred Tudor England and Francia separately because the Normans are just England with a slightly broader land base for civ switching. We didn't even get William the Conqueror (yet) out of them.