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Civ3MultiTool - Now at Civfanatics

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Utility Programs' started by Gramphos, Nov 3, 2001.

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  1. royfurr

    royfurr "Klotzen, nicht Kleckern"

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    Yaa, sorry, I get real ethuastic sometimes, its better then being gloomy .... been there, too, it is not fun ... reply only as much or as little as you like ... but anything you say will be eagerly read! I think I am VERY close to understanding how this all fits together, please, help me get the last little way ... IF you have time, if not, I understand .... maybe later ???? Either way, I thank you. Gratefully.

    But anyway back OT ...
    As for changing civ3mod.bic I don't recomend it. I think it should work with current saves if you just add a Unit, but I'm not 100% sure. The best is to use the load scenario thing, as the rules then are saved in the save. [/QUOTE]

    I've seen this sort of comment before. It kinda confuses me. I thought that changing (read: editing) the civ3mod.bic file was the WHOLE POINT of the Editor and of the C3CT! I mean, that is all that I have been doing. Of couse I backed up the "original" (ie patch 1.16f's) civ3mod.bic at the start, and everytime I made another editiing change in the editor I backed up that modified one before procedding (in fact, in a separate folder on my HD, I have a whole sereis of "civ3mod.bic" files (with descriptive names) from each stage of modifications I have made- typically unit stats mods, sometimes changes in city improvements, or requirements for something, etc. But up to now, it was all simple modifing the properties of a given item- changing it forever- no keeping of the original (ie no NEW things with OLD things still there). I shouldn't be doing this? Only make changes in .sav files with the SaveGameEditor.bat file?? (But it only changes current STUFF, not unit/items Properties, as the editor does ....??) So what DO you edit with the editor if not the civ3mod.bic file? Clearly I am confused!! (So what else is new? :crazyeyes )

    A bic can contain 2 groups of sections. The rules sections and the map sections. These groups need to contain all groups of them to work with the game. (i.e. you can't leave the Techs out just becasue you don't edit them). The bics nan have 3 combinations: Rules, Map or Rules + Map.

    Scenarios are used with new games, and are bic files. Saved games can, if started as a scenario with rules, hold the bic rules sections. They also contains a map, units and cities among with other game specific data. One big problem of making a save game as a scenario is the saved seed. (It should be possible to find, but I've not found it yet.) One other is that only one civ can be played.
    [/QUOTE]

    So, what exactly IS a scenario? IS is any old bic file that has a MAP and RULES "section" in it, AND, is IN the Civilization III/SCENIARO *FOLDER* on the HD? SO thus when we select Load Sceniaro, the game goes to that folder (SCENIARO) and offers any bic file there for us to select from? AND THUS, if I modify civ3mod.bic with the editor (ah, no map in this modified file, right, since we had left "No Map" checked in using the Editor to do the editing of this civ3mod.bic file??) and its simply in the "top" (root) folder of the game, it shows up as the rules base game being played when we select Start new game, ONLY, and those rules get incorporated into any *.SAV files created from that bic file used in playing those games .... BUT one COULD NOT use those modified rules (in the civ3mod.bic) in playing a sceniaro, as in loading a sceniaro we can only pick from the bic files that are in the Sceniaro folder. OK, if that is right, that makes sense. The danger in editing civ3mod.bic is those changes get used in creating new *.SAV files, ie new games, and if they contradict something in the hard coded part of the game .... CRASH! Yes/No? INSTEAD, edit a base civ3mod.bic file, save/move it into the Sceniaro folder, and then it only gets used when we SELECT IT Specifically from Load Sceniaro?? (wouldn't conflicts still cause a crash?) But could you even load a sceniaro UNLESS a MAP is also in that bic file? SO how do you get a map in there ... IMPORT MAP !!! but how do you do this exactly- what file format is the map in- if a bic, how do you know its a "map bic" vs. a "Rules" bic like my modified civ3mod.bic files? I see the Import from Bic etc, in the Save game editor MAP tab. Seems like you need to first have a *.SAV file to get a generated map FROM, import into ANOTHER *.sav file?? But how do you get your edited rules from the editor, edited units (new ones you make using the Mighty Gramphos's C3CT program!!) etc, INTO that *.sav file???

    I seem to be so tantalisingly close to understanding all this, but JUST NOT QUITE getting it all ....

    AHHHHHHHHHH spining spinning spinning downward out of control ....

    I still don't understand why everyone says to NOT change the civ3mod.bic file itself (having ALWAYS kept a safe copy backed up)... seems thats WHAT we want to do to create a mod or a sceniaro. (IS there ANY difference between a "mod" and a sceniaro here??)

    The CPF file format is a file format I created to make it possible to automatically mass move the starting units to locations specified in that file. If you want to know more, check the CPT thread (maybe that readme). C3CT can generate those files without any Civ info. Yuo might test that ffunction. To do so you need to load a map with playerstarts, and click the generate CPF. Then a CPF will be crated with all the defined positions data, and you will have to edit the Civs, to be right at the right spot. [/QUOTE]

    Yes, I shall look for this thread to learn more about cpf file.

    FINALLY, almost over .... what DOESN't work? Still CANNOT add techs?? due to position problems in the tech tree??? or is that now fixed by patch/your hard work? CANNOT add eras (greyed out? in C3CT?) CAN ONLY add to a total of 32 civs?? (BUT CAN add up to that??).

    ENOUGH! Please, any answers or suggestions will be recieved most gladly!! IF you glean anything from my comments which is leading me astray, let me know!

    Thank you.
     
  2. Dark Sheer

    Dark Sheer Deity

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    Wow!! Thats alot of question. Usually this kind of request when come to me in my office will go to the bottom of the tray so I can resolve more smaller problem first :lol:

    Since Gramphos has been a great help to the whole Civ3 community I will try to lighten his burden by answering some of those question that I know the answer. :) :

    By suggesting you to edit and save to a different file name other than Civ3mod.bic has two good point. First, you will always have a clean Civ3mod.bic if anything goes wrong. Second, it won't mess up your current savegame. A standard game get the rules from Civ3mod.bic and each time the savegame is loaded it reads the rules from the file. So if you add a unit or change the requirement of a tech or unit etc you will not be able to load the old savegame. Generally editing unit stats does not affect your old savegame.

    Well, a scenario at this moment means either 1) a map 2) edited rules or 3) map with edited rules. What Gramphos trying to say is the bic file has 2 sections, map and rules. At the moment C3CT can grab the map from any bic files and put them into a savegame and as long as the map is the same with what the savegame is using (ie the map was originally exported from the savegame) you can actually edit the map as you play the game :D

    By having the no map tab checked just means that Civ3 will ignore the map section when you load the bic file as a scenario and go straight to the select map screen. In fact, Civ3 can also load in a bic file with both map and edited rules and ignore the edited rules (by checking the use default rules button in the start screen Civ3 will read the rules from Civ3mod.bic but use the map loaded). A scenario savegame is saved together with the rules and any editing done to the scenario bic file does not affect the old savegame.

    So if you want to test what will happen if a particular unit's stat is changed without starting a new game, modify the Civ3mod.bic instead of a scenario file. ;) There is no diff between a mod and a scenario at the moment.

    You can add techs at the moment but you can't use any new tech icon. So basically you need to recycle the current icons. Also, adding each tech will make the highest icon unusable (Civ3 crash if that icon is used). Other than that, adding tech is fine. As to eras, Dan Magaha of Firaxis has pointed out that Civ3 will most likely crash if you add era (and of course Civ3 DO crash :p )

    I hope that answer some of your questions and ease the burden on Gramphos. :cooool:
     
  3. royfurr

    royfurr "Klotzen, nicht Kleckern"

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    Dark Sheer- Thank you for stepping up to the plate to help me. I am Grateful! I'm sure Gramphos appreciates your help, too. I will limit my ethausium and only make a small post. I hope you will anwser my questions and/or maybe others will pitch in too. If so, THANK YOU to you Others!

    So one key thing I realise is- after you edit the civ3mod.bic file, move that edited file (which has been given a different name, preserving the original) YOU MOVE IT FROM THE ROOT OF THE CIV3 FOLDER TO THE SCENIARO FOLDER. IT *MUST* have bic as a file extension. Now, you have a "sceniaro". IF it was created from editing the original civ3mod.bic, there is no map ("no map tab checked"), and the Sceniaro starts up like any new game, with the screen to create a worldmap type, etc. It will use for rules the editing you've done in creating that file.
    Am I right so far? SO, now I need to learn how to put "maps" into these sceniaro bic files??


    ... A standard game get the rules from Civ3mod.bic and each time the savegame is loaded it reads the rules from the file. So if you add a unit or change the requirement of a tech or unit etc you will not be able to load the old savegame. Generally editing unit stats does not affect your old savegame. [/QUOTE]

    Doesn't a savegame (ie a *.sav, generated by saving a game in progress??) save into it the rules that were in existence at that moment of saving? Which came from the civ3mod.bic file used to start that game? Your comment sounded (to me) like it meant that the saved game (*.sav) pulled the rules to be used to play that game, when its loaded as a "load game", from the current civ3mod.bic file in the root directory of CIV3- not from inside THAT *.sav file. Is that right or does it use "rules inside the save game"? Maybe this is why I am confused?

    OK, don't dispair, I am getting near end of post now. I promised to only ask a few questions, so I try to only do that!

    Well, a scenario at this moment means either 1) a map 2) edited rules or 3) map with edited rules. What Gramphos trying to say is the bic file has 2 sections, map and rules. At the moment C3CT can grab the map from any bic files and put them into a savegame and as long as the map is the same with what the savegame is using (ie the map was originally exported from the savegame) you can actually edit the map as you play the game :D [/QUOTE]

    OK, real good! HOW do I "grab a map" and "put into a savegame"? By save game you mean a previoulsy created *.SAV file, right? WHen I "select a BIC file" in C3CT, and Load a bic file, I get the Import and Export buttons, but the IMPORT button only offers to import MOD files ... how do you get at just the MAP "sections" of the bic files (I presume MOD files ARE bic files??)? Most important conceptionlly, to what/where am I importing these files? The BIC file I had loaded into the civ3copy tool? DID I need to have loaded a *.SAV file, not a bic??? When I "SAVE" in CIv3copytool, am I saving over the inputted ("Selected" or "Loaded" bic file pulled into c3ct)? (This is a little scary, I NEVER use a SAVE command, I ALWAYS use a "SAVE AS ..." command ... this way I control the name of the newly created file, and never overwrite a current or older file).

    OK, last but not least. Advice, really. Say I want to test the effects of modification on modern or Industrial age units. or of a newly created modern/industrial age unit. If I do this stuff on modding the civ3mod.bic file and saving under a different name, and no map, I start at 4000 BC, and have to play for 2 weeks to get to a newer era (I cannot spend as much time per day playing, as I would like, work and all, that kinda stuff, ah bummer ...) This is why I want to apply modification to a *.sav game ie a game in progress ... to be in a time period where the newer units will even exist to be buildable, so I can test them out ... NOT CHEAT with them!!! I had thought that I would save games in progress, that have reached newer eras, and "insert" rules changes with the New Units or the Modification of a unit, so I could test them out ... but cannot be done?? The savegames will not load??

    Now, Off I go, I am going to look for thread on Marla's tutorial on adjusting civ starting locations on her maps. Maybe this will help me learn about inserting maps. Also need to find that thread Gramphos mentioned about the "cpf" file.

    I humbly thank you for your help, Dark Sheer. Sorry I am so stupid! I still have a lot of questions! Hope this fewer at a time approach is more digestable! Sorry to be a burden!! I seem to learn more and more each time a Kind Person posts a reply to me.
    Thank you! ALL!
     
  4. Dark Sheer

    Dark Sheer Deity

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    Heck, since I already help to answer the last one I might as well try to answer this one too :D :

    I don't think there is a way to put map into a bic file. The only way is to draw the map but drawing the map is tough without the minimap :eek:

    However, since C3CT allow you to import mod from a bic file (ie import the rules), then it is easier to do it the other way around. That is use the bic file that has a map and import the modified rules for it from another bic file with the modified rules but no map (Call me the king of work around :lol: )

    If the game is started as a scenario, the rules is saved together. If it is started as a standard game then the rules will be read from Civ3mod.bic everytime you load the game. ;)

    When you load a savegame using C3CT's savegame editor (Its under the integrated tool menu), you can export the map in the game into a bic file. After that, you can use Civ3Edit to open the bic file to edit the map. And you can also use the savegame editor to import the map back into the savegame. As to import map into a bic file, see the answer on top :cooool:

    One way to test a new unit to see if it works is to make the unit requires nothing so you can build it from the very start. ;) Another way is to download one of the cheat program/trainer and quickly advance to the era/tech you want and see if the new unit can be build when you reach a certain era/tech. I use the trainer alot when I am testing a new unit (Like you have said, no one will want to wait 3 weeks and then find out that the unit doesn't work and game cannot continue :D )

    If you are interested in making map, there is a pretty good utility at Apolyton that allows you to convert a bmp file into a bic file with map! I am currently using it to make a Civ3 map base on the Britannia map of Ultima Online :cooool:
     
  5. PaulNAdhe

    PaulNAdhe Warlord

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    When I use C3CT to import a savegame and do some editing then export is as a bic the corruption in the modified game acts as if it was a small map, terrific corruption. Also the barbarians are set to rampaging regardless of how they were setup in the original start of the game or during the Civ3Edit process.

    What am I doing wrong?
     
  6. royfurr

    royfurr "Klotzen, nicht Kleckern"

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    Dark Sheer,

    Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my questions. I am Most Grateful.

    (And THANK YOU, also, Gramphos, for helping me earlier. AND for your efforts with the C3CT!. I see your discussions on the Apolyton site on the structure of bic files and I am awed! For those interested, GO TO http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31974 )

    So, just one Final question. Which of the trainer/cheats programs have you made the most use of, and have been of the best help, in testing units? Could you please post a Final Answer with either the name or a link to the one(s) you make the most use of for debugging new units and also, new Other Stuff (techs, city improvemnts, etc - or maybe more accurately, modified city improvemnest/Civ wonders)?

    I thank you.

    And oh, btw way ... your Perry class Frigate unit work, ... is just Outstanding! WAY Impressive!!!

    Ah, wouldn't it be nice, if there was a data base we could all make use of, that would have generic flc and other files, whcih we could use in making really NEW units with????

    Thank you agian, Dark Sheer.
     
  7. Dark Sheer

    Dark Sheer Deity

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    For trainer to test your mod, try this one :
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=170836

    Its not the best for game cheat (For that you may want to try Power Bar) but its the best for testing mod as it allow one turn research and this allow you to advance to any era quickly to see if the tech you added works ;)

    And I am glad you like the Frigate :cooool:

    As to the database, I might try to create one sometime in the future. I am going over to Beijing in China in 2 weeks time (for a period of 6 weeks) so I am not sure if I will have access to my website at simplenet when I am there. But I am sure I can still have access to the forum and continue to make any new units :D
     
  8. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    It is nothing you do wrong. I don't know where that info is saved, and threfore I only advice pople to use the exported maps to reimport, or to use to see the coord you want to move a unit to.
     
  9. PaulNAdhe

    PaulNAdhe Warlord

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    I'm confused. Are you saying that I should use C3CT to export to bic, edit the map then use C3CT to import to a sav?

    BTW, Gramphos, I'm a longtime VB programmer, and would like to help perfect your program.
     
  10. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    I'm saying that the BICs exported by the game does not include any corruption data, any flags (flat/polar ice) and probably other things that might be needed to play on them.
     
  11. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    v0.83
    - The tool was renamed to Civ3MultiTool
    - The default startup now starts a main menu
    - New flags added to automaticly start the CopyTool
    - Unitis with ERA-specific graphics are now copied right
    - The city editing now shows the units in the city
    - In the unit tab, cities can now be selected to quick move a unit to a specific coordinate.
    - Bug when the last line of INI-files fell out on copy fixed
    - Citizens can be added/removed from cities
    - Cities can be moved (no calculation of production is made)
    - Civilization frame has been disabled by default to aviod questions on it

    10 downloads
     
  12. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    v0.83.0002
    - Bugs that didn't allow sub windows for the CopyTool if opened from the main menu fixed.
    - Bug with the remove huts optin for saves fixed
    - Remove huts option added to the Map options for BICs
    - The map options for BICs no longer uses the old system of BIC handling

    96 downloads
     
  13. micmc_atl_ga

    micmc_atl_ga Chieftain

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    Heya,

    (before I start, yeah I'm still on this, you can call me anal...I prefer to think of it as a dogged determination to figger out how I did sumthin' stupid :)

    I made a wonder for the first time, and violin the to-build window lit up with the graphic, just singin' n' a' dancin', like it was made for just that moment.

    Still can't figger out why the non-wonders won't show up in the to-be-built window but I'll do it! Eventually...

    I do know this is not a big deal..folks havin' their game crash cuz of change is a lot more important and gramphos spending his time adding the reams of tweaks/improvements/extra's to the program is where the time should be spent. I put this out here in case anyone else has run into this problem before and can say 'hey dude...do THIS'... anyway back into the breech!
     
  14. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    v0.83.0003
    - Bug with not being able to add units to saves fixed (from v0.83)
    - Ability to remove cities added (untested only)

    90 downloads
     
  15. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    If anyone have problems with saves not loading info right, or becomming corrupt, attach zipped files of the saves before, and if corrupted after they are edited.

    The same goes if the tool generates an error on the load or when you click on something.

    (some bad bugs have been reported, and I want to get rid of them as fast as possible)
     
  16. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    v0.83.0004
    - The load and save procedures of the Saves have been changed to not miss some data in very rare cases.
    - The splash screen now closes when the savegame editor starts directly
    - Errors with saves without cities have been taken out (there might still be some left)
    - Bug with unit addition #2 fixed.
     
  17. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    Gramphos -

    The SGE FOW reset does not seem to work with the new patch.
     
  18. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    I'm aware of the problem. There will be a new version soon. I just need to make sure that isstill works with 1.16f.

    Adding units will not work either (I think)
     
  19. Gramphos

    Gramphos Emperor

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    - Changed to fully work with v1.17f files.

    23 downloads
     
  20. PaulNAdhe

    PaulNAdhe Warlord

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    I'm sure this has been answered on this thread before, but my 24K telephone line causes reading all the posts to detract from my Civ III time ;)

    How do I add a unit using C3MT? I've tried everything I can think of and all I get are Barbarian Settlers or I/O errors on game startup.

    Is there a tutorial for us dummies? Or can someone reply with a step by step instruction for adding individual units to a save game, not unit types.
     
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