Yaa, sorry, I get real ethuastic sometimes, its better then being gloomy .... been there, too, it is not fun ... reply only as much or as little as you like ... but anything you say will be eagerly read! I think I am VERY close to understanding how this all fits together, please, help me get the last little way ... IF you have time, if not, I understand .... maybe later ???? Either way, I thank you. Gratefully. But anyway back OT ... As for changing civ3mod.bic I don't recomend it. I think it should work with current saves if you just add a Unit, but I'm not 100% sure. The best is to use the load scenario thing, as the rules then are saved in the save. [/QUOTE] I've seen this sort of comment before. It kinda confuses me. I thought that changing (read: editing) the civ3mod.bic file was the WHOLE POINT of the Editor and of the C3CT! I mean, that is all that I have been doing. Of couse I backed up the "original" (ie patch 1.16f's) civ3mod.bic at the start, and everytime I made another editiing change in the editor I backed up that modified one before procedding (in fact, in a separate folder on my HD, I have a whole sereis of "civ3mod.bic" files (with descriptive names) from each stage of modifications I have made- typically unit stats mods, sometimes changes in city improvements, or requirements for something, etc. But up to now, it was all simple modifing the properties of a given item- changing it forever- no keeping of the original (ie no NEW things with OLD things still there). I shouldn't be doing this? Only make changes in .sav files with the SaveGameEditor.bat file?? (But it only changes current STUFF, not unit/items Properties, as the editor does ....??) So what DO you edit with the editor if not the civ3mod.bic file? Clearly I am confused!! (So what else is new? :crazyeyes ) A bic can contain 2 groups of sections. The rules sections and the map sections. These groups need to contain all groups of them to work with the game. (i.e. you can't leave the Techs out just becasue you don't edit them). The bics nan have 3 combinations: Rules, Map or Rules + Map. Scenarios are used with new games, and are bic files. Saved games can, if started as a scenario with rules, hold the bic rules sections. They also contains a map, units and cities among with other game specific data. One big problem of making a save game as a scenario is the saved seed. (It should be possible to find, but I've not found it yet.) One other is that only one civ can be played. [/QUOTE] So, what exactly IS a scenario? IS is any old bic file that has a MAP and RULES "section" in it, AND, is IN the Civilization III/SCENIARO *FOLDER* on the HD? SO thus when we select Load Sceniaro, the game goes to that folder (SCENIARO) and offers any bic file there for us to select from? AND THUS, if I modify civ3mod.bic with the editor (ah, no map in this modified file, right, since we had left "No Map" checked in using the Editor to do the editing of this civ3mod.bic file??) and its simply in the "top" (root) folder of the game, it shows up as the rules base game being played when we select Start new game, ONLY, and those rules get incorporated into any *.SAV files created from that bic file used in playing those games .... BUT one COULD NOT use those modified rules (in the civ3mod.bic) in playing a sceniaro, as in loading a sceniaro we can only pick from the bic files that are in the Sceniaro folder. OK, if that is right, that makes sense. The danger in editing civ3mod.bic is those changes get used in creating new *.SAV files, ie new games, and if they contradict something in the hard coded part of the game .... CRASH! Yes/No? INSTEAD, edit a base civ3mod.bic file, save/move it into the Sceniaro folder, and then it only gets used when we SELECT IT Specifically from Load Sceniaro?? (wouldn't conflicts still cause a crash?) But could you even load a sceniaro UNLESS a MAP is also in that bic file? SO how do you get a map in there ... IMPORT MAP !!! but how do you do this exactly- what file format is the map in- if a bic, how do you know its a "map bic" vs. a "Rules" bic like my modified civ3mod.bic files? I see the Import from Bic etc, in the Save game editor MAP tab. Seems like you need to first have a *.SAV file to get a generated map FROM, import into ANOTHER *.sav file?? But how do you get your edited rules from the editor, edited units (new ones you make using the Mighty Gramphos's C3CT program!!) etc, INTO that *.sav file??? I seem to be so tantalisingly close to understanding all this, but JUST NOT QUITE getting it all .... AHHHHHHHHHH spining spinning spinning downward out of control .... I still don't understand why everyone says to NOT change the civ3mod.bic file itself (having ALWAYS kept a safe copy backed up)... seems thats WHAT we want to do to create a mod or a sceniaro. (IS there ANY difference between a "mod" and a sceniaro here??) The CPF file format is a file format I created to make it possible to automatically mass move the starting units to locations specified in that file. If you want to know more, check the CPT thread (maybe that readme). C3CT can generate those files without any Civ info. Yuo might test that ffunction. To do so you need to load a map with playerstarts, and click the generate CPF. Then a CPF will be crated with all the defined positions data, and you will have to edit the Civs, to be right at the right spot. [/QUOTE] Yes, I shall look for this thread to learn more about cpf file. FINALLY, almost over .... what DOESN't work? Still CANNOT add techs?? due to position problems in the tech tree??? or is that now fixed by patch/your hard work? CANNOT add eras (greyed out? in C3CT?) CAN ONLY add to a total of 32 civs?? (BUT CAN add up to that??). ENOUGH! Please, any answers or suggestions will be recieved most gladly!! IF you glean anything from my comments which is leading me astray, let me know! Thank you.