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Civ4 Realism Mod (Extended Gameplay and tweaks)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Modpacks' started by jaynus, Nov 4, 2005.

  1. evirus

    evirus Warlord

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    bollox, though your joking, that does make sense, i wouldnt be agenst the idea except for the fact that it seems a little too "silly" for a game of this nature

    prehaps rubber could help increase movement speed? im more for resources that help out units instead of resources that are required for units
     
  2. DeadZoneMDx

    DeadZoneMDx Chieftain

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    jaynus, Ive sent you a PM
     
  3. Krafweerk

    Krafweerk Chieftain

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    On the subject of economy.

    A world bank would make a great new wonder...it would work like the UN works, except there would be no elections.

    The civilization with the most buying power (Manufactured goods, minus imported goods, times gross national product, minus matience would be the best and most simplified formula) would receive a +1 to relations with all other civs, and a 3.17 percent increase in tax revenue. (or in traderoute earnings, that might be more realistic) That would simulate countries putting thier money into a country that has the least risk for radical inflation or change. With the forumala above (im not sure exactly what the numbers are, but civ generates outputs for all of them) smaller civs with more industry (forges, factories, windmills) more population, but few coastal cities, would still be able to compete with larger, less industrialized nations. Much like germany, sweden, and france compete with russia, or china.
     
  4. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    Nov 1, 2005
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    Hey guys!!! v0.6 Posted! Was alot of monotinous changes, lots of copy paste work...but major changes I think! Yay for guns!


    Anyways...Wow!! alot of input since I last checked by...Im astounded hehe..

    I have a test game going atm, and I am very pleased with its performance...I dont know about the rest of you guys. Has anyone ran any decent-lenghted games? Any comments, input, anything on these games?

    Heres how my game is setup and how its gone, I want to make sure we are all on the same page with the actual way the game goes, or any suggestions anyone has!

    My Game:
    10 Civ's on a large continents map, Prince difficulty, im playing as washington. Victory condition is conquest only; No city razing is turned on. Tech trading is allowed.
    We all (oddly enough) got plopped onto the same continent like a New World map. I would say the first...hour of my game was a bit slow, ancient era with alot of exploring and waiting. Besides this drawback however, I've been in constant war and struggle with rather large forces, and they drag on (I love that!). I like the way its gone, and I am waiting to see how it progresses into the modern ages (I have not played a full game yet; My testing of my modern changes was with world editing)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have abslotely everything you have all said written down and prioritizing a list for you guys, so you can see what Im working on at any given time. Let me give you a short run down of the major changes now going in, now that I think I've finished the major sluggish changes.

    Heres what the major things Im working on besides more twaeking and small things. This is in order of how I am prioritizing them (note: this doesnt include easy unit and wonder additions, eg: World Bank, Superhighways, etc are *easy* to add and going in next version):
    - Expendable resources and producable resources
    - Ranged bombardment on ships and artillary (yay! this is very doable, just time consuming)
    - Zones of Control on units (this *IS* possible with python, easily; Im working on the framework for it)
    - Outlining historical accuracy of units and needed additions. This includes expanding more specialized unit types, examples of what im doing first:
    - AEGIS cruisers
    - Transport aircraft
    - Sapper units

    I'm going through this HUGE list of all your guys suggestions and going to post it later tonight; Stay tuned!
     
  5. bebear

    bebear Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
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    IMHO, this MOD is too aggressive compare to another MOD "Slower Tech+Balance¬ď, it change the game too much and without deep game balance and AI consideration.

    for example, TANK+250% MOD will destroy the gameplay, with 10 point exp from begin (wonder + religion + goverment + barrack), and they get 75% vs city, it's really strong; and now, with 250%, all AI dead...
     
  6. jaynus

    jaynus Chieftain

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    Nov 1, 2005
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    #1. Whos comparing the mods? Whoever it is needs to stop. I've taken some modifications out of dearmads "Slower tech + balance mod" (yes, with his permission), but was in no way looking to do anything near what he was. He wants to balance the game, I want to revamp it.

    #2. I resent the fact you believe I did not put heavy consideration into the implications of the changes Ive made; considering the amount of time I have put into it and planning it, I find it rude.

    #3. How does 250% vs. melee and mounted units ruin the balance of the AI? This mod is going for realism. Tanks should completely demolish pikeman and cavalry. If I am missing something, please; tell me whats ruining the balance so I can fix it...oh. Constructively please. :goodjob:


    Thanks!!!!
     
  7. Falconius

    Falconius Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2001
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    27
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Jaynus,

    I like the mod and have a suggestion. Gunships (helipcopters) in vanilla Civ 4 get the same river-crossing penalty as regular gound units. Silly, since they are flying, not wading. Giving them the "Amphibious" trait (which Marines start with) solves this, making it more realistic.

    I modded this into my own games (before I started playing yours) and it worked out well. What do you think?

    See you at the front!

    Falconius
     
  8. bebear

    bebear Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2005
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    Hi Jaynus,

    what i said means no offencive, i'm not native english speaker so please forgive some word may not right.


    a good MOD should first think about the stupid AI...


    about 250% tank: AI could not as smart as human to know "which unit counter which unit", AI should bulid inf:tank rate to about 2:1, and may have no money to upgrade cav to gunship to counter your tank, but human are smart, they build all tank, right?

    Musketman now uses 'Muskets' built at a 'Musket Factory', AI stupid, how to ensure them know which city should build musket factory and them train guns? the setting give gunpower unit many advantage vs old army, so AI dead too...and how about the unit upgrade to gunpowder?

    Nuclear Carrier Cargo Space of 8, if AI load it full and get destoryed by the smart human without good protection as human does, is it fun? but human seems never get carrier sunk...

    plunder for cities raised to 100 gold, and +50 gold per population, so conquest a city with 15 pop will get 850, even lost 4-5 unit, it's still cost effective, is it for fun for human? AI seems less chance get bonus at all.

    fast moving unit +1 or +2 movement, AI will let these unit go too fast to attack human, when they got killed, human have time to have a rest waiting for the slow inf, but human could get supply of attacking army very fast...
     
  9. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    You're spoiling us jaynus with almost daily updates. I had packed it in before 0.6 came out so haven't had any chance to test it. Now I have 8+ hours of work first..... :(

    So far I haven't played much beyond the beginning of the 3rd era. I'm still torn on whether early research is taking too long, but that may be because I always turn tech trading off. I also play Prince level, continent, ect. Hopefully I'll get a chance to test it later. Has anyone found that tech trading is better in Civ4 than Civ3? Or do the AI simply outpace the player by trading trading amongst themselves?

    Keep up the good work.
     
  10. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    After checking around the various boards I see tons of great ideas that can and hopefully will be implemented in one single, great mod.

    There's a nice idea in the creation area about adding more than 1 UU per civ.

    I still like the forest replanting idea.

    Some new civs are starting to pop up; Celts, Cathage, ect.

    I wonder how well Civ4 will handle trying to combine lots of mini mods?
     
  11. Saarud

    Saarud Warlord

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    Aug 24, 2004
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    Suberb mod jaynus, you are defnitily on the right track. Continue this way and you will make a perfect game. Or atleast a more realistic one. ;)

    One thing that has always bothered me is that a lack of a certain resource means you cannot produce the item at all. While I do understand the reasoning behind this I think it is wrong. Let's take oil for example during the ww2. Germany lacks oil and the production is very much lowered because of that. Still they did build tanks, planes and even some ships. In Civ4 I would rather see that there was a HUGE penalty for not having the right resource instead of not being able to build the item at all. Tanks for example could be 10 times more expensive to build without oil and perhaps another 1,5 times more expensive to build without iron. The numbers could be discussed but it would feel much more realistic this way.
     
  12. woodelf

    woodelf Bard Retired Moderator

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    Good thinking Saarud. I think Civ4 does a nice job with marble/stone with regard to Wonders. I think things like that should be expanded to units. Make the penalty severe enough to encourage resource wars, but allow the civ to still painstakingly make the unit. I mean just because you don't have thousands of horses running wild doesn't mean you can't find one nag to train... :)
     
  13. ejdacanay

    ejdacanay Chieftain

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    koo, koo try making a tree planting mod and maybe burn forest mod (as i recall forest fires are beneficial because the seeds spread better or somethin like that)
     
  14. Lachlan

    Lachlan Great Builder of Civs !

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    I want civ spliting, are you agree Jaynus ?
     
  15. AlmightyOrange

    AlmightyOrange Chieftain

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    This is awsome! Lookin forward to the next update.

    But are there any plans to make nukes more powerful? beacause at the moment there just not worth it (bad rep with other civs etc.) i was thinking no more pathetic kill checks for units just die on contact with it. Also the land within about 3 squares of the nuke automaticly becomes desert!
     
  16. evirus

    evirus Warlord

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    well some plants spread seeds during or shortly after forest fires, along with that ive heard it does make the land fertile, maybe burning a forest gives a small food bonus, then you can build a farm on it for an ever bigger bonus



    oh and jaynus... will artillery damage units during bombardment? there should be multiple bombardment options besides defense, how about infastructure(buildings, if none then population) and Units(damages all units in the city by a small, premotable amount)
     
  17. Krafweerk

    Krafweerk Chieftain

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    This is a common misconception. Germany had all the oil it needed. It was just spread out and within easy reach of allied bombers. Germany had plans to take the north sea oil, and the oil in the cacauses. The oil in north africa and the middle east was well out of allied bomber range, and could produce much faster since it didnt have to worry about all the precautions that are takin due to bombing.

    Countries like belgium, and poland, who had no oil of thier own, only trade agreements and stock piles, didnt build tanks at all. They built horsedrawn carraiges, and armoured cars. Which is why germany rolled right over them.

    Germanys production, even after 1943 and the defeat at stalingrad, and the movement of the 8th airforce to britian, increased almost 50% every year until the wars end. Even when the 8th airforces B17s were dropping 100,000 tons of bombs a day on every target they could find in germany, thier production increased. The entire strategic bombing effort of the 8th airforce, while putting on a pretty show, and eliminating germanys airforce, was completely ineffective at putting a stop to such an industrialized nation.

    Socialism was a major reason thier industry was so effective. The government had control over all contruction, public works projects, military production, resource movement, and operational planning. It was very organized and very effective.

    If you flat out just dont have oil, you cant build factories, you cant fuel tanks and planes, you cant produce plastics, you cant smelt ore effectively, oil is, for lack of a better phrase, the most important resource on earth. He who controls the oil controls the universe.

    Tell the poles, the chechs, the belgians, the algerians, the libyians that you can build tanks, ships, and planes without oil....theyll show you pictures of horsecarts dragging thier wounded away from the onslaught of panzers that just rolled over them.



    EDIT:

    Id like to say that I really like the way this mod is turning out. Its much more brutal than vanilla civ4...after you build up a city, you can churn the earlier units out like a mad man.

    Im playing an archipegalo (or whatver) map right now. Standard, with 8 civs (including me) on noble. England was to my south, and was ganged by me and the mongols and japanese. I had two stacks of 12 horse archers, and two stacks of cho-ku archers (I was china) and enough galleys to carry them all. All the while having 3 defenders in each city (only had 6) my research really suffered (I left tech trading on, the AI was about 400 years ahead of me in tech, but couldnt build any numbers of advanced units I guess because I didnt see any other than a few) paying for all those armies, but it paid off when I went to attack england. They had less units, and a few more advanced ones, but I had no catapults...I used my collateral damage archers to weaken the enemy units and then attacked them with horse archers.

    England fell in about 120 years.

    While normally all of this would have been accomplished the same way but with maybe a 10th of the units involved, I like having all those units. It makes the game a more dangerous place...it also makes the other civs alot more aggressive. In vanilla civ4 I can go maybe 100 turns without anyone fighting....maybe even a whole game. Usually the wars are only fought when I start them. Now about every 20 turns wars are either starting or ending between the AI (and sometimes me)

    Its alot more realistic, since in the real world, there hasnt been a day since human beings organized and started building cities, that there hasnt been a war going on SOMEwhere...
     
  18. ejdacanay

    ejdacanay Chieftain

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    also it would be koo if there was a cavalry unit w/ spears or lances that get 25-50% bonus against other cavalry (lol got this from RTW)

    also,

    are there rpgs in the game? and guerillas?
     
  19. Bollox

    Bollox Chieftain

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    Please forgive me if this has been covered but... What kind of world is this mod (map type). Can I use the World map mod by Rhye and then your mod ontop to give me a real life feel to my global domination.
     
  20. Rabbit_Alex

    Rabbit_Alex Prince

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    This mod is a gameplay mod, it has no custom maps.
     

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