Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[thecrazyscot]

I actually rather like knowing that companies will be releasing additional content for their games. Civ7 base will have tons of content - it's a sandbox, with lots of civs and leaders. I have no issues with a DLC roadmap in place before release. It indicates at least some level of support is planned, and if I want more after my time with the base game there will be something new for me to explore.

Whether a DLC is worth buying is entirely subjective, of course. I'm somewhat skeptical of some of the announced DLC collections as it seems a little thin on content, but I'm not fussed about it because it will eventually go on sale, or I'll just buy an edition that has it all included.

I dunno, maybe I just don't get too worked up about DLC or in-game purchases that much. I picked up Diablo 4 on sale, and splurged an additional $10 for the current season's Battle Pass. It was fun progressing through it, and I'll probably do it again - although I might get the deluxe edition of the upcoming expansion with an included Battle Pass instead.

 

[chaosprophet]

I actually rather like knowing that companies will be releasing additional content for their games. Civ7 base will have tons of content - it's a sandbox, with lots of civs and leaders. I have no issues with a DLC roadmap in place before release. It indicates at least some level of support is planned, and if I want more after my time with the base game there will be something new for me to explore.

Whether a DLC is worth buying is entirely subjective, of course. I'm somewhat skeptical of some of the announced DLC collections as it seems a little thin on content, but I'm not fussed about it because it will eventually go on sale, or I'll just buy an edition that has it all included.

I dunno, maybe I just don't get too worked up about DLC or in-game purchases that much. I picked up Diablo 4 on sale, and splurged an additional $10 for the current season's Battle Pass. It was fun progressing through it, and I'll probably do it again - although I might get the deluxe edition of the upcoming expansion with an included Battle Pass instead.

I think a main problem people tend to have with DLC is thinking it means developers willing took out content from the main release or at least avoided developing some system to later sell as DLC. There are probably some cases like that, but is harder to know without knowledge from inside the production team.

In general, I care more if I feel like the vanilla game is a good enough game / worth the amount of money expend on it on hours of fun, and if it is the case then I welcome more content later on, as long as reasonably priced.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think a main problem people tend to have with DLC is thinking it means developers willing took out content from the main release or at least avoided developing some system to later sell as DLC. There are probably some cases like that, but is harder to know without knowledge from inside the production team.

In general, I care more if I feel like the vanilla game is a good enough game / worth the amount of money expend on it on hours of fun, and if it is the case then I welcome more content later on, as long as reasonably priced.

I agree, DLC gets a bad rep largely because of how misused it is, selling skins, and content that should've beenin the game, but a good game actually realses content that enhances the gameplay, rather than forcing it to be a must.

Civ 5 and Civ 6 in my eyes are good examples of bad and good. without the EPs, Civ 5 feels lacking, with the EPs, it becomes amazing, while I think Civ 6 was strong without any EPs, but became stronger with.

 

[coolhandluke11]

Denuvo appears to be beneficial, as it helps combat piracy

True, but the issue is trust and the fact that DRM is spyware with full access to your system. I will be saying no to this spyware and to civ 7.

 

[bitula]

I am glad that Civ is getting some competition at this point, because it is needed. Humankind, Old World and Millennia are already out, and while they may not be perfect or fully match the scope of Civ, I am glad they exist. Ara is coming out in two weeks now. For those who haven't already, I recommend checking out the Ara: History Untold sub-forum. Having played the first act for a few dozen hours in alpha, I personally think it is very promising. It is huge and ambitious, and for now probably the game which has the best shot at being a real direct competitor to Civ. It is also more fairly priced:

I don't care about DRM-s. Anything you install on your PC can be potentially harmfull. But this Ara looks too good to be true, I hope it is not just some deception, thanks for the Info!

 

[coolhandluke11]

I don't care about DRM-s. Anything you install on your PC can be potentially harmfull. But this Ara looks too good to be true, I hope it is not just some deception, thanks for the Info!

Ara only needs to be bettter than civ 6 to succeed which has been a complete mess from the the start and throughout. Id rather go back and play civ 4 and 5 than the headless chicken that is civ 6. Fingers crossed on both releases being good.

 

[bitula]

Ara only needs to be bettter than civ 6 to succeed which has been a complete mess from the the start and throughout. Id rather go back and play civ 4 and 5 than the headless chicken that is civ 6. Fingers crossed on both releases being good.

It looks like mixture of Civilization, Cities Skylines, warhammer (Total War), and other games which are all my favorites. It just looks too good and ambitiuos to be true. But yeah fingers crossed. If its really that good as it looks like, I'll buy it evenif it comes with three Denuvos installed including tamper and anti cheat.

 

[Olle Wernersson]

True, but the issue is trust and the fact that DRM is spyware with full access to your system. I will be saying no to this spyware and to civ 7.

If people didn’t try to download paid games for free, there wouldn’t be a need to stop them.

 

[Leyrann]

True, but the issue is trust and the fact that DRM is spyware with full access to your system. I will be saying no to this spyware and to civ 7.

You are confusing Denuvo anti-cheat (a kernel-level program that checks for programs which attempt to influence the game you're running, and thus has to have access to your entire system) with Denuvo anti-tamper (some code added to the .exe to make it more difficult to crack).

Denuvo anti-tamper, whatever you think of the effects it may have on the game and pirating, is not a separate program, let alone one that acts like spyware or has full access to your system.

 

[KayAU]

If people didn’t try to download paid games for free, there wouldn’t be a need to stop them.

It's a question of the usefulness of these measures as opposed to the problems it may cause for paying customers. Often, anti-piracy measures have been done in such a way as to be far more of an inconvenience to customers than to pirates. A trivial example would be an unskippable anti-piracy ad which you have to wait through before getting to the DVD menu ("you wouldn't steal a policeman, etc..."). Someone who pirated the movie would just be able to start it at will, while paying customers are given an objectively worse experience. Another example could be a DRM system which prevents a game from being cracked for a couple of days after release, but permanently hurts performance for paying customers, or even risks damage to the computer. I am not saying that is what they are including with Civ 6, but apparently, it has happened.

For me personally, I do think publishers have a right to put whatever DRM they want so long as it doesn't hurt my computer or violate user privacy, and so long as they are upfront about what it is. It is then up to us to make an informed decision as to whether we are willing to accept the DRM or not. Often, the answer for me has been no, and there have been several games I have skipped due to DRM concerns.

 

[Olle Wernersson]

It's a question of the usefulness of these measures as opposed to the problems it may cause for paying customers. Often, anti-piracy measures have been done in such a way as to be far more of an inconvenience to customers than to pirates. A trivial example would be an unskippable anti-piracy ad which you have to wait through before getting to the DVD menu ("you wouldn't steal a policeman, etc..."). Someone who pirated the movie would just be able to start it at will, while paying customers are given an objectively worse experience. Another example could be a DRM system which prevents a game from being cracked for a couple of days after release, but permanently hurts performance for paying customers, or even risks damage to the computer. I am not saying that is what they are including with Civ 6, but apparently, it has happened.

For me personally, I do think publishers have a right to put whatever DRM they want so long as it doesn't hurt my computer or violate user privacy, and so long as they are upfront about what it is. It is then up to us to make an informed decision as to whether we are willing to accept the DRM or not. Often, the answer for me has been no, and there have been several games I have skipped due to DRM concerns.

You are critical of previous attempts to stop piracy and the methods they may use in Civilization 7, as they negatively impact customers in some way. I agree that you shouldn't be affected because of someone else's immoral actions. However, this is why I believe we should support the creators of Civilization 7 and collaborate to combat piracy together, rather than leaving them to fight alone.

 

[Riconatic]

True, but the issue is trust and the fact that DRM is spyware with full access to your system. I will be saying no to this spyware and to civ 7.

Very wrong. Denuvo anti-tamper drm does not have kind of ”special” access to your system. It is even impossible. It runs in user space as part of the game executable operating only towards game code.

 

[BrotherInJah]

Denuvo appears to be beneficial, as it helps combat piracy

It may delay it but that's it.

 

[Mahi]

This.. is actually a pass reason for me as well. I must admit I have had a fairly lose policy for DRM tools in the past but this is definitely pushing it for me.

 

[KayAU]

But this Ara looks too good to be true, I hope it is not just some deception, thanks for the Info!

No problem. I can confirm that it is indeed real, and that I personally enjoyed it a lot during the last alpha. In my opinion it looks even better in real life than in a lot of the screenshots, and I love a lot about how the game looks and feels: the organic map with irregularly shaped regions, split into a variable number of irregularly shaped zones. The city builder-like details, where you can zoom way in and look at people and animals wandering around. The way the game places what you build into the irregular zones, fills out the blanks with things like residential buildings, roads and vegetation, in a way that looks believable. I think Ara is a technically very impressive game, and the fact that you can apparently run it with giant maps with as much as 36 players is almost hard to believe. Most importantly though, it is fun to play. We alpha testers only got to experience Act 1, but the signs are very positive. For me, a good sign for a 4X game is when I can look at the map, and immediately start seeing possibilities and making goals. Gain control over this area. Get access to that resource. Unlock that tech so I can produce this or that, and use that to build that wonder in that region. This is the "one more turn" magic. As I was learning how the game works, I also felt the pull of "one more game", as I figured out new strategies I wanted to use in my next playthrough.

I don't want to overhype it, as I can never know that everyone else will like something the way I do. I'm sure it will have its issues. But when looking at all the recent civ-likes, Ara stands out to me. There appears to have been a lot of skill, time, resources, and love put into this.

It looks like mixture of Civilization, Cities Skylines, warhammer (Total War), and other games which are all my favorites. It just looks too good and ambitiuos to be true. But yeah fingers crossed. If its really that good as it looks like, I'll buy it evenif it comes with three Denuvos installed including tamper and anti cheat.

I find it kind of hard to describe it in terms of other games. When playing it, it felt simultaneously similar, and yet somehow not that similar, to a lot of civ-like games I've played. Ara is definitely its own thing, but if I had to try and highlight the main components, I would say Civ, grand strategy, and a bit of city builder. These are all things I love.

Less than two weeks to go now.

Sorry for the off-topic, I'll get back in line now. ;-)

 

[leif erikson]

Moderator Action: If you wish to discuss Ara: History Untold, please go to our forum on the topic.
Ara: History Untold

 

[Riconatic]

Will we be able to turn Denuvo off out of the gate?

Quoting from the stream thread:
Post in thread 'First Civ 7 developer livestream happening September 12!'
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...m-happening-september-12.691871/post-16672038

Above question really puzzles me. What benefit of anti-piracy toolmwould have to begin with if it can be turned off right out of the gate?

 

[Kwami]

Quoting from the stream thread:
Post in thread 'First Civ 7 developer livestream happening September 12!'
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...m-happening-september-12.691871/post-16672038

Above question really puzzles me. What benefit of anti-piracy toolmwould have to begin with if it can be turned off right out of the gate?

Also, there's no such thing as "turning off" Denuvo. The developers can remove Denuvo from the game, but players obviously cannot. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

 

[Leyrann]

Quoting from the stream thread:
Post in thread 'First Civ 7 developer livestream happening September 12!'
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...m-happening-september-12.691871/post-16672038

Above question really puzzles me. What benefit of anti-piracy toolmwould have to begin with if it can be turned off right out of the gate?

It's probably yet another person mixing up Denuvo anti-tamper with Denuvo anti-cheat. The anti-cheat is a separate program, the anti-tamper isn't.

 

[KayAU]

Also, there's no such thing as "turning off" Denuvo. The developers can remove Denuvo from the game, but players obviously cannot. That wouldn't make any sense at all.

That would be my hope. I recall hearing that this type of DRM in the best case may delay cracking for about a month, but that this can have a positive impact on initial sales. If that is the case, then it makes sense to me to remove the DRM for paying customers at some point after release.

I just remembered another example of DRM inconveniencing paying customers, while pirates got the better experience: games with CD/DVD based DRM, which required that you kept the disc in the drive at all times, and would occasionally spin it up to check that you had a legal copy. Pirates could just run it from their hard drives at any time.