Civ7 now includes Denuvo

[UWHabs]

Assuming they don't royally mess it up, it seems like it should have almost no impact whether it's there or not. So for me, I have a really hard time being upset at it, or not purchasing it for that reason.
It's annoying that it "has" to be there, because the devs felt like the risk of piracy was high enough that it was worth it for them to add. But as long as it doesn't render the game un-playable because of server non-sense or some messed up implementation, you just completely ignore and never think about again.

 

[Gedemon]

Assuming they don't royally mess it up, it seems like it should have almost no impact whether it's there or not. So for me, I have a really hard time being upset at it, or not purchasing it for that reason.
It's annoying that it "has" to be there, because the devs felt like the risk of piracy was high enough that it was worth it for them to add.

annoying, that's the word.

But as long as it doesn't render the game un-playable because of server non-sense

yes.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/denuvo-drm-to-blame-for-games-becoming-temporarily-unplayable

or some messed up implementation,

let's hope.

Harada Says Tekken 8 Won't Include Controversial Tekken 7 Launch Feature

Clearing up a bit of confusion online, Tekken 8 game director Katsuhiro Harada confirms one feature that isn't returning to the PC version.

gamerant.com

you just completely ignore and never think about again.

yes, just hope your latest GPU/CPU will be compatible with the software implementation, or wait for a patch...

Intel fixes the game DRM issue affecting 12th-gen Intel CPUs

Several games weren't playing nice with Intel's new 12th-gen CPUs due to a conflict with DRM, but the issue has since been fixed.

www.pcworld.com

and don't forgot the need to launch the game before going offline for a certain amount of time to be sure the token is updated to your current system/drivers/OS state.


(note: I just wanted to put a reminder about the legitimate concerns based on exceptional cases, I agree with your post)

 

[pokiehl]

snip

I think it's worth noting that none of these edge cases are inherently specific to Denuvo Anti-Tamper. Rather, they are potential pitfalls of any DRM, including Steam itself.

I seem to remember a lot of similar comments when Civ 5 was announced to be exclusive to Steam. Here is a quote from our very own Civfanatics forums decrying the use of Steam for Civ 5. Nice trip down memory lane From this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/can-i-get-civ5-without-steam.388073/

I wouldn't myself buy it because I don't want software which anytime I install requires I connect to a server to verify.

Theres also the question of security, what if steam program on your pc has holes a hacker can exploit? You have it load on bootup..its active... just like MS OS if theres a hole...it might get exploited and a way in your PC...

If steam the company shutdowns... your games gone and once it needs "call home" and no answer....no game

Your game purchase use is at mercy of some other party.

I prefer games I get from other companys that use like Digital River for download and selling... you get a serial number must use to install and patch... So I'm at no mercy of any outside party if I need to install my game...legitimate...

If steam is whats needed for online playing it should be an option...
installed if need it for that, otherwise for mere installing... should use a solution less intrusive.

I still can install my Civ 2, Civ 3 and Civ 4 anytime without need verify it.. to some other party...but this move to be at mercy of a outside party... what occurs 2 years from now if one wants to install Civ 5 on a new PC and Steams closed up or dropped supporting civ 5?

As for it a method of preventing pirating... my observation
over 25 years using PC's is every type of CP scheme is defeated
eventually by those who really want to and have the PC savvy...
so it only really messes up us legitimate owners use of our
purchases.

This post from 15 years ago would cleanly fit into this thread. Just replace “Steam” with “Denuvo.”

 

[Kev1916]

Sure. Still remember when people got mad early 80s when even affordable cars started to have immobilizers as an anti-theft mechanism and how it would increase the price of the product for everyone.
Clever people asked why some inviduals steal cars then. Its happening again I see.
Some can fault those who worked hard and try to prevent theft of their efforts. Communism in a nut shell pretty much.

Not sure what stealing cars has to do with online gaming ..

To quote there's not a single game with Denuvo which does not require a recurring online check to run, civ requires to be run online RE "PROGRESSION"

 

[Kev1916]

I think it's worth noting that none of these edge cases are inherently specific to Denuvo Anti-Tamper. Rather, they are potential pitfalls of any DRM, including Steam itself.

I seem to remember a lot of similar comments when Civ 5 was announced to be exclusive to Steam. Here is a quote from our very own Civfanatics forums decrying the use of Steam for Civ 5. Nice trip down memory lane From this thread: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/can-i-get-civ5-without-steam.388073/



This post from 15 years ago would cleanly fit into this thread. Just replace “Steam” with “Denuvo.”

Steam is zero nada at all like "Denuvo" not sure there is any logic to that thought

""Denuvo is actually used by only a minority of corporations with a long history of anti-consumer business practices. We got what? 30 or 40 games with Denuvo every year?
90% of that comes from three or four companies. When Denuvo started Steam had 400 games in total and now they're releasing 13000 games every year and yet the number of titles with Denuvo stayed more or less the same, some years seeing merely a dozen titles using it. Denuvo's adoption rate has been on a sharp downward trend for the past ten years: there are currently less than 260 games with Denuvo on the store, representing less than 0.6% of all games on Steam (since 2017, from 47 games in that year to about 23 in 2021, with a modest uptick recently but still not matching its earlier years). And no, they're not even more represented in terms of sales since, as I mentioned earlier, 6 out of 10 of the 10 best selling new titles on Steam this first half of the year were DRM free titles."

More generally Steam's refund policy and GOG's highly publicized DRM-free approach have both contributed more in reducing instances of piracy than any technological barrier designed to prevent access could ever dream of.

Anyway u buy what ever you like DENUVO is a hard pass for many

 

[fantsu]

Not sure what stealing cars has to do with online gaming ..

To quote there's not a single game with Denuvo which does not require a recurring online check to run, civ requires to be run online RE "PROGRESSION"

Its like immobilizer. It checks out before using a product if you have rights to do so. If you are stealing it, its a no-go.

 

[Linklite]

I find the comments along the lines of "as long as Firaxis/2K know what they're doing, it'll be fine and you won't know the difference because it won't impact performance etc" interesting. Because... it's not like we've had an experience where they've made a mistake and left the game broken for over a year, is it? By the way, my Switch Civ6 is still virtually unplayable thanks to that bug, with no hope of them ever bothering to fix it. It's also unknown for them to release a patch and break the game until they manage to get a patch out again, right?

Then you wonder why when they start talking about adding software that intentionally stops the game working if something goes wrong, I get a bit nervous.

And knock it off with the "if you don't love this, you must be wanting to pirate it!". I have not pirated or even done anything like unto pirating for decades - since I realised that pirating is not a victimless crime. Quit trying to "poison the well".

 

[fantsu]

I find the comments along the lines of "as long as Firaxis/2K know what they're doing, it'll be fine and you won't know the difference because it won't impact performance etc" interesting. Because... it's not like we've had an experience where they've made a mistake and left the game broken for over a year, is it? By the way, my Switch Civ6 is still virtually unplayable thanks to that bug, with no hope of them ever bothering to fix it. It's also unknown for them to release a patch and break the game until they manage to get a patch out again, right?

Then you wonder why when they start talking about adding software that intentionally stops the game working if something goes wrong, I get a bit nervous.

And knock it off with the "if you don't love this, you must be wanting to pirate it!". I have not pirated or even done anything like unto pirating for decades - since I realised that pirating is not a victimless crime. Quit trying to "poison the well".

I blame Aspyr for the bad Switch port. And I think they are the ones to blame. Now I will blame 2K if Aspyr is still involved in Civilization VII.

Theres no black or white in the matter. Denuvo would not exist if piracy would not be a problem. It might have its own problems, but then again it seems to be the only way to stop piracy, and it has been the only for a long time now.

 

[Linklite]

Excelent writeup. I could not agree more.

About your conserns. If I recall correctly they were around offline capability. I recall you mentioning twofold ”wish”.
1. Full offline capability
2. Battfront comparison where EA account was needed to continue for paid content.

My answers:
1. That denuvo can’t do. It needs internet connection sometimes. It cannot do it ever with this version. I would not expect this feature to happen in timeframe civ 7 launches. I recall that you discussed with another user as deep in this matter as there are facts available. So basically I can not add anything new.

2. Denuvo is not content handler. It does not relate to these things at all. This would be another level of requirement outside denuvo. So question ”denuvo or no denuvo” does not answer this.

However we have news that 2k does not require launcher of any kind for this game https://www.pcgamer.com/games/strat...uffer-launching-the-game-twice-for-no-reason/
That is the most direct answer to your question. Steam and epic only will handle the paid content.

Apologies if I misremembered or misinterpreted your concerns.

Sorry for the late reply, I've been busy with life
1. Thank you for the response, this does relate to my concern.
2. That wasn't quite what I meant, so I'll try to explain a bit more. I'm more concerned that I'll try to play Civ7, but because internet access can be patchy, I could get locked out. Battlefront was more an example of how locking these things behind internet access can mess with my ability to access my paid-for content. It all depends on how the system works. If it insists on verifying each time I load it up or I login to steam (that's how patchy my internet can be - I can login to Steam/Epic fine, but then have issues connecting when the game comes on), then it's a no-go. If it just needs to verify once every six months and does so silently and without need to be in the game, then that's not an issue for me. There's obviously some kind of spectrum between those two extremes.

I hope that clarifies my concern and why it's an issue for me.

 

[Linklite]

I blame Aspyr for the bad Switch port. And I think they are the ones to blame. Now I will blame 2K if Aspyr is still involved in Civilization VII.

Theres no black or white in the matter. Denuvo would not exist if piracy would not be a problem. It might have its own problems, but then again it seems to be the only way to stop piracy, and it has been the only for a long time now.

It wasn't Aspyr's fault - or at least, that it broke wasn't their fault. Firaxis/2K should never have let that bug out in the first place. However, moving past the "should we expect them to never make a mistake" bit, they should have fixed it immediately (as in, days or weeks). If they had, which I consider them morally bound to have done so, then Aspyr almost certainly would have honoured their contract and pushed the fix - they had literally just done something similar when they pushed out Firaxis/2K's faulty patch.

Aspyr certainly has a lot to answer for - there was a lot more wrong with the port that, so far as I can tell, really was Aspyr's fault and not Firaxis or 2K - and they really should have honoured their contract to push out the fix. However, the root problem with respect to the bug was that Firaxis/2K ignored it for something like a year and a half. After that point, Aspyr felt it had met its obligations and wouldn't carry it out. Does that mean I don't buy Aspyr anymore? Sure. It also means that Firaxis/2K have lost my trust too.

 

[TreVor_ish]

2k as publisher is still responsible for any release, no matter who is the developer. We also have zero evidence, that Firaxis can manage it themselves on consoles. Amount of players in multi is rather small for a game from 2025. Wonder how puny the game will feel. With that broad of a hardware to cover, the day when CIVII will go live gonna be interesting.
Comparing software piracy to car theft or communism is amusing.

 

[Riconatic]

2k as publisher is still responsible for any release, no matter who is the developer. We also have zero evidence, that Firaxis can manage it themselves on consoles. Amount of players in multi is rather small for a game from 2025. Wonder how puny the game will feel. With that broad of a hardware to cover, the day when CIVII will go live gonna be interesting.
Comparing software piracy to car theft or communism is amusing.

I find above confusing. How 2k is responsible in switch case? It has nothing to with switch case. I do not have switch. But switch punlisher is aspyr no? 2k is windows publisher. How 2k responsible for any release?

 

[fantsu]

It wasn't Aspyr's fault - or at least, that it broke wasn't their fault. Firaxis/2K should never have let that bug out in the first place. However, moving past the "should we expect them to never make a mistake" bit, they should have fixed it immediately (as in, days or weeks). If they had, which I consider them morally bound to have done so, then Aspyr almost certainly would have honoured their contract and pushed the fix - they had literally just done something similar when they pushed out Firaxis/2K's faulty patch.

Aspyr certainly has a lot to answer for - there was a lot more wrong with the port that, so far as I can tell, really was Aspyr's fault and not Firaxis or 2K - and they really should have honoured their contract to push out the fix. However, the root problem with respect to the bug was that Firaxis/2K ignored it for something like a year and a half. After that point, Aspyr felt it had met its obligations and wouldn't carry it out. Does that mean I don't buy Aspyr anymore? Sure. It also means that Firaxis/2K have lost my trust too.

Sure. I can agree with all of this. Now lets just wait and see how VII turns out.
In my opinion Denuvo isnt just a reason to freak out yet (and I do remember the problems it had long time ago). I want that the series keep on going and Firaxis has delivered quality games for a long time, and if they need the dough, let 'em have it. Gaming development is expensive and risky endeavour nowadays. They still deliver to all the devices, many different versions for each of them. I think they need a lot of income to continue compared to previous iterations.

 

[TreVor_ish]

I find above confusing. How 2k is responsible in switch case? It has nothing to with switch case. I do not have switch. But switch punlisher is aspyr no? 2k is windows publisher. How 2k responsible for any release?

Aspyr is an outside contractor for console port of CIV VI published by 2k.

 

[Riconatic]

Aspyr is an outside contractor for console port of CIV VI published by 2k.

I would claim Aspyr is outside contractor and publisher. 2k does not play part in consoles.

And sorry, I guess we are getting very offtopic.

 

[Linklite]

Part of it is I'm not entirely clear on who is responsible for what exactly, so I'm limping them together - to be honest, the distinction is largely academic to me. Not all by any means, a few of the major problems with the port originated from Firaxis or 2K, not Aspyr per se.

 

[Leyrann]

Search if you don't believe me.

The person who comes with the claim has to provide the evidence. Not the person who is asked to accept the claim.

 

[user330977]

The person who comes with the claim has to provide the evidence. Not the person who is asked to accept the claim.

Yet when I pressed Riconatic to provide evidence for his claims, you remained oddly silent. Curious.

These forums are utterly compromised with shills, bots, and people arguing in bad faith.

 

[Atlas627]

I do not think there is maximum installs. Or even ever has been. Zero sources saying that.

All sources saying 5 installs per 24h.

Then what's the point of the install limit? I guess it's so absurdly high that no normal person would be bothered, but its existence means a single pirated copy might have difficulty becoming public?

 

[leif erikson]

These forums are utterly compromised with shills, bots, and people arguing in bad faith.

Moderator Action: On both sides to be fair.
Please stick to the topic. Please provide evidence for your claims. Please cease the bickering.