Civics and Reforms

[Ziad]

Default civics have +1 gpt AND low upkeep because most of civics' upkeep scales with building maintenance that can cause massive expense even you can't afford at some point.

Yeah costs do go up for sure.

The issue here is that the early game advantages afforded by GPT + no-penalty civics are far more important than anything later in the game. In other words, what you do in the early game will have a bigger impact on your game than what happens later. It's not right to claim that there is a 1:1 relationship between what happens early game and what happens later. Just because you will spend a lot of money later on civics, doesn't mean you need to boost them earlier. The early boosts have a much bigger impact/cost ratio.

You can basically use the civics for early game advantages, then technically abandon the system altogether having already received the boost you needed unless you can afford it.

The maintenance system can be good to keep advanced civs in line. I don't think it should be changed.

The only changes I would suggest are removing the GPT bonus from the default civics (retaining the happiness modifiers) and adding some penalties to the early game civics.

If it's preferable for the default civics to have a bonus, then GPT is the best option. Giving civs 1 of each yield would have a much bigger impact than 5 GPT would as some yields are worth more than 1 GPT ( Production = 2 Gold for example).

 

[Enginseer]

I'm surprised people are taking balance concerns now for so long.

I've been in a experimental build of Civics and Reform, so I can't really comment on any of these since the said civic was reworked.

 

[Ziad]

Do share

 

[Dawnpromise]

I'm surprised people are taking balance concerns now for so long.

I've been in a experimental build of Civics and Reform, so I can't really comment on any of these since the said civic was reworked.

Do share

I too am eager to hear about this.

 

[Enginseer]

Some early civics are locked and requires certain conditions to be active.

Slavery for now with its reworked bonus requires at least one active conquered city.

Ingenious Craft which always resolved poverty now requires a monopoly.

And so much more.

 

[Dawnpromise]

Looking forward to when you feel it's ready to share. Does this 'experimental version' include the military civcs?

 

[Ziad]

Those conditions seem very fair.

 

[Enginseer]

Looking forward to when you feel it's ready to share. Does this 'experimental version' include the military civcs?

military civics acted as unit supply but unit supply got a rework so theres really no point to implement them

 

[Dawnpromise]

military civics acted as unit supply but unit supply got a rework so theres really no point to implement them

That's a shame they seemed like an interesting concept. I'd of loved to have a way to hire mercenary units that didn't involve devoting to the authority tree.

I still think there'd be great potential in a civic branch dedicated to manipulating the supply cap. I often play peaceful and would love a way to trade unused supply cap for something like more useful, while at the same time having a switch I can flip when someone pokes me wrong, like how America was before going into either of the world wars.

However, I can also see how that could be exploitable. You're the tech-priest here I'll trust your judgement.

 

[RoAdd]

I think i may found a bug.... Whenever i select the ancestor worship civic, the altar building is only available for the turn I enacted it. After that the building isnt available any more, thus all started altars stop being constructed. Enabling paganism and ancestor worship after that again, enables the altar to be built for another turn, but it seems that after each re-enabling it gets boosted more and more(the faith, culture and turism bonus), also the tooltip on the building list is wrong.

Spoiler Mod list: :

Vox Populi 43 civs EUI
Community Events
VP-EE Compatibility
Wonders Expanded
City States Evolved
Civ Names By Policies
Civic and Reform
CommunityPatch Mod Compatibility
EE
Industrial Buildings
Medieval and Renaissance Building Pack
National Wonder Collection
Reforestation
Unique City States
World Congress Reformation

All of them updated at the latest version.

A screenshot is put as attachment.

 

[Enginseer]

I think i may found a bug.... Whenever i select the ancestor worship civic, the altar building is only available for the turn I enacted it. After that the building isnt available any more, thus all started altars stop being constructed. Enabling paganism and ancestor worship after that again, enables the altar to be built for another turn, but it seems that after each re-enabling it gets boosted more and more(the faith, culture and turism bonus), also the tooltip on the building list is wrong.

Spoiler Mod list: :

Vox Populi 43 civs EUI
Community Events
VP-EE Compatibility
Wonders Expanded
City States Evolved
Civ Names By Policies
Civic and Reform
CommunityPatch Mod Compatibility
EE
Industrial Buildings
Medieval and Renaissance Building Pack
National Wonder Collection
Reforestation
Unique City States
World Congress Reformation

All of them updated at the latest version.

A screenshot is put as attachment.

Ah very interesting. I know the problem. I will fix soon this week.

 

[Ziad]

Has the altar issue been fixed?

There's also another bug. One of the civics has no information on it. I think it was Pacificism.

 

[Enginseer]

Has the altar issue been fixed?

There's also another bug. One of the civics has no information on it. I think it was Pacificism.

It should have been. I'll check Pacifism.

 

[Ziad]

The release on Steam is still the December 3rd release. That one still has the bug.

 

[Ziad]

Thanks for the update!

 

[Ziad]

@Enginseer With the recent reductions in overall yields and the modifications to the impact of gold in the early game, I've found the +5 gold afforded by the initial civics to be a little too strong.

With the new happiness changes, the unhappiness reductions afforded by the civics are also becoming very beneficial.

Overall the initial experience is significantly impacted by the mod.

Given that, would you consider eliminating the gold bonus from the initial civics? The happiness reductions help with expansion til you get new civics online and can later provide buffers if your happiness sinks low enough. I think that would be reasonable.

 

[Favorius]

Hello,

does this mod create some complications with calculation of happiness? Gold demand of populations are unrealistic. 13 pop city has 9 poverty unhappiness.

Thanks for help.

 

[Enginseer]

Hello,

does this mod create some complications with calculation of happiness? Gold demand of populations are unrealistic. 13 pop city has 9 poverty unhappiness.

Thanks for help.

They shouldn't be. The civics add barely any few yields and even then the AI often change to those civics to get those yields to make up for it(which means you should too!)

 

[kenneth1221]

For the end game, is the proper way to deal with ballooning building maintenance costs to simply switch back to the original civics? I've been wondering how to deal with that in a few games I've had with this mod installed.

 

[Enginseer]

For the end game, is the proper way to deal with ballooning building maintenance costs to simply switch back to the original civics? I've been wondering how to deal with that in a few games I've had with this mod installed.

I'm going to scale back the maintenance cost and nerf its benefits significantly due to the various balance changes made in the past months (as the original intent of this mod was to buff some weaker playstyles).