<Nexus>
Traveler of the Multiverse
Sure it has a state religion. The goal of Syncretism is to use the non state religions in behalf of spreading your state religion. Though it's hard to mimic properly.
Civics Improvements Suggestions
- Thread starter os79
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Sure it has a state religion. The goal of Syncretism is to use the non state religions in behalf of spreading your state religion. Though it's hard to mimic properly.
Afforess
The White Wizard
I agree with everything you've said so far.
There are civics that fit this, like Despotism or Monarchy. There doesn't need to be a "late game" version of these civics, both have been created with the intent that the civics are useful for the full duration of the game. Aspects of warfare like total war are already in the game, with the civic "Mutually Assured Destruction".
If you think some of the existing civics need rebalancing to be useful, I'd probably agree. The religion civics in particular probably need attention. But I am pretty happy with the coverage of policy choices by the existing civics.
I don't think every single thing is going to agree with everyone. I usually skip Slavery civic because I think it's too risky (revolution + slave revolt events). I don't agree that the early civics should be viable in the late game (otherwise, the need for later civics gets really diluted) and that even the second round of civics should be "use only until something better comes along".
What I really believe is that Grand War needs an identity with something to differentiate it from Military Tradition/Military Science on one hand and the run of naval combat techs on the other. Currently, naval combat is nearly all Grand War does with Ship of the Line and Trafalgar Square. If I had to pick the techs that are still on the tree that I don't like, it would have to be the dedicated naval combat techs (Naval Warfare, Naval Cannon, Naval Tactics) -- I can handle the ship building techs, but the naval combat techs seem unnecessary -- and the dedicated mounted combat techs (especially Chariotry and Armored Cavalry; I can tolerate Cavalry Tactics only because I think we need one tech between Matchlock and Flintlock). Secondly, I thin Fascism needs a civic since the Fascist civic was removed. Technologies that are more about government and social organization than science or technology (what would most likely be Social Policies in Civ 5) should get civics.
What I really believe is that Grand War needs an identity with something to differentiate it from Military Tradition/Military Science on one hand and the run of naval combat techs on the other. Currently, naval combat is nearly all Grand War does with Ship of the Line and Trafalgar Square. If I had to pick the techs that are still on the tree that I don't like, it would have to be the dedicated naval combat techs (Naval Warfare, Naval Cannon, Naval Tactics) -- I can handle the ship building techs, but the naval combat techs seem unnecessary -- and the dedicated mounted combat techs (especially Chariotry and Armored Cavalry; I can tolerate Cavalry Tactics only because I think we need one tech between Matchlock and Flintlock). Secondly, I thin Fascism needs a civic since the Fascist civic was removed. Technologies that are more about government and social organization than science or technology (what would most likely be Social Policies in Civ 5) should get civics.
I took a close look at Nobility and Patrician. I think Nobility is right now pretty inferior to Patrician. As they come at the same technology, I think it's very important that they be equal, but Nobility has far more downsides.
Here is what the two civics share.
Beyond this, Patrician is almost all upside.
Nobility, on the other hand, has a mix of ups and downs.
Here is what the two civics share.
- Low Upkeep
- +1 local instability per turn
- +10 instability on adoption
- +20% to instability from distance to Palace
- +1 gold from two buildings (Walls/High Walls and Castle for Nobility; Bazaar and Market for Patrician)
- A civic building; Manor for Nobility, Villa for Patrician
Beyond this, Patrician is almost all upside.
- +1 gold from Merchant specialists; admittedly, it is hard to get more than 1-2 Merchants until later in the game.
- +10% gold in Capital
Nobility, on the other hand, has a mix of ups and downs.
- +1 national instability per turn
- +1 gold from Manor, Estate
- +15% city defense in all cities
- -25% distant unit supply cost
- -15% production
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
I almost never use Nobility, so yeah, I think we could boost it a little.
45°38'N-13°47'E
Deity
Talking about civics, I remember an old modmod which had some interesting ideas http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=447181
Afforess
The White Wizard
How about changing the -15% production to -15% military unit production instead. In addition, give Nobility +1 noble specialist slot and +1 
for Noble Specialists.
That should make it more powerful.
for Noble Specialists.That should make it more powerful.
How about changing the -15% production to -15% military unit production instead. In addition, give Nobility +1 noble specialist slot and +1
That should make it more powerful.
This would make it a good contender against Patrician.
Combat Wombat
Warlord
I just wanted to chime in about how crippling the +250% to distance and number of cities is for Republic. I consider it completely useless and stay with monarchy until Federation. In my current game Republic would cost me over 2200 more gold a turn over Monarchy.
Democracy right now would be an extra 400+ gold a turn over Federation, and for what? Not having a 15% reduction in hammers is all that 400+ gold a turn gets me.
All of this with fairly well placed Summer Palace, Versailles, and Parliament.
Somewhat off topic but a Metropolitan Administration in one of my cities big enough costs me an extra 72 gold a turn. Only gives me 15 culture, 7 GP, 1.6 science, and two hammers (1 engineer specialist appears to be what it uses) over the City Council.
In short, maintenance hurts and need to be re-balanced everywhere imo.
Democracy right now would be an extra 400+ gold a turn over Federation, and for what? Not having a 15% reduction in hammers is all that 400+ gold a turn gets me.
All of this with fairly well placed Summer Palace, Versailles, and Parliament.
Somewhat off topic but a Metropolitan Administration in one of my cities big enough costs me an extra 72 gold a turn. Only gives me 15 culture, 7 GP, 1.6 science, and two hammers (1 engineer specialist appears to be what it uses) over the City Council.
In short, maintenance hurts and need to be re-balanced everywhere imo.
Afforess
The White Wizard
The heavy maintenance on the Republic civic is intentional. It is a civic meant for small civilizations. If you have more than 5 cities, you probably should never use it.
Monarchy is the opposite, Monarchy is the big kingdom civic. Monarchy is the cheapest government civic to run, and the savings increases with the more cities you have.
That seems like a reasonable tradeoff. I can see either choice being worth it, depending on the situation.
Maintenance costs increase at an exponential rate with regards to the number of cities you have. This is intentional.
Maintenance costs were increased significantly because we removed Inflation from the game. Previously, there was a factor called "Inflation" which simply sapped more of your income each turn of the game. It was unfair to smaller civs because the more cities you had, the more ability to generate income you had. Inflation for smaller civs was the same relative cost as big civs, so bigger civs had an unfair advantage. In addition, Inflation was just a lame mechanic, meant as a money-sink.
So inflation is gone. In response, we rewrote the maintenance costs from a straight linear formula to an exponential formula. A 10-city empire doesn't cost 2x to run as a 5-city empire, it costs ~3.3x more. This makes the game less awful for tinier civilizations and harder for larger civilizations.
To make it possible to play both as a small civilization or a large empire successfully, we redesigned the government civics. Civics like Republic give massive science and culture bonuses, for larger maintenance costs. But in a tiny civilization, maintenance costs are so low that this tradeoff makes sense. Civics like Monarchy cut maintenance costs significantly and make it possible to still have the large empires that some players like. But Monarchy is a terrible civic for tiny nations.
Other civics are in-between those two ends of the spectrum. So what you are seeing isn't poorly designed chaos, it's a finely tuned mechanic to enable both large and small nations to be competitive in the game, regardless of where on the map they got placed.
There are no plans to change any of this, I'm very happy with the way it works.
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
I agree on the Maintenance issue. with Afforess.
I am playing a game currently, under SVN 878, because the updated SVN removes the A.I settled great Generals, ok I can accept that, BUT bump scrolling is painfully slow, and I won't accept that.
Running Republic
Anyway, on a Gigantic map, if I build another city, all my cities maintenance costs go up, If I build an Administration building they rise etc. that's all fine and dandy.
BUT just to throw a spanner in the discussion, I have 67 cities on my home continent, and 3 on the 2nd one.
I find, with running culture at a flat 30% I can run a 30% science slider, while building in all cities, that's a 60% Slider for the Math challanged. If I put the Majority on wealth generation, it hits 95% gross slider.
Now I could easily triple my cities, not a problem, I have plenty of space. But I've set up my empire, so its a HUGE CASH flow generator.
Like anything, there is a way around it. Size matters. I switched in a golden age to Republic, to test out costs, found I could handle them, and kept it going, its just gotten better and better cost wise, as I've grown cities.
So all civics are valid, Federation is probably the best cash wise for me, but
and 
its easily Republic.
maybe I've mixed in the correct mixture of other civics, controlling 2 holy cities, and building ALL the Maintenance reducing buildings does go a long way.
I have trialed SVN 923, but bump scrolling, and Bug errors??? *SVN problems*, I won't continue, but maintenance is similar after update.
I am playing a game currently, under SVN 878, because the updated SVN removes the A.I settled great Generals, ok I can accept that, BUT bump scrolling is painfully slow, and I won't accept that.
Running Republic
Anyway, on a Gigantic map, if I build another city, all my cities maintenance costs go up, If I build an Administration building they rise etc. that's all fine and dandy.
BUT just to throw a spanner in the discussion, I have 67 cities on my home continent, and 3 on the 2nd one.
I find, with running culture at a flat 30% I can run a 30% science slider, while building in all cities, that's a 60% Slider for the Math challanged. If I put the Majority on wealth generation, it hits 95% gross slider.
Now I could easily triple my cities, not a problem, I have plenty of space. But I've set up my empire, so its a HUGE CASH flow generator.
Like anything, there is a way around it. Size matters. I switched in a golden age to Republic, to test out costs, found I could handle them, and kept it going, its just gotten better and better cost wise, as I've grown cities.
So all civics are valid, Federation is probably the best cash wise for me, but
and its easily Republic.maybe I've mixed in the correct mixture of other civics, controlling 2 holy cities, and building ALL the Maintenance reducing buildings does go a long way.
I have trialed SVN 923, but bump scrolling, and Bug errors??? *SVN problems*, I won't continue, but maintenance is similar after update.
Combat Wombat
Warlord
Where are you technology wise? I just got Replaceable Parts and Nationalism. I have 64 cities (14 on islands), 3 gold generating holy cities, sitting at 45% science, 0% culture (have never used the culture slider) and Federation.
Now I never have any vassals because it makes the game to easy. You have any Vassals?
http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com...967D9455FADBE005605B8A/2048x1152.resizedimage
youmakemefart
Warlord
I think it makes sense for Republic to be easier on a smaller civ and Monarchy being ideal on a larger...
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
@combat Wombat -
I've just gotten Manufacturing, ALL cities on the main continent are building a Manufacturing plant, have to drop science down to cumulative 50%, 30% Culture, 20% Science.
I've built over 80% or 4/5 along rivers, built for the 3 border expansion, and nearly all of the Mainland have Metropolitan Administrations.
I'm NOT in a golden age, have spaced out Palace, Summer Palace and Versailles out evenly with one or two other maintenance reducing buildings.
Smallest city pop wise is 17 on Main continent, but that's a Northern Ice base, feed by the sea only.
I think you just have to adjust your cities to build commerce yields, and stick with it.
Initially it seemed a disaster to run Republic, but it just kept getting better and better as I went along.
Started off in a Golden age, and kept it up after it finished, as the Golden age was only work 1K and that's only 10% of slider.
Gigantic map, eternity speed.
No Vassals, Trying to spawn one on 2nd Continent, but can't for some reason?? can take them, but can't spawn them. They all now say, "you've grown too powerful for us", or "we're doing fine on our own" in top half of leader board.
I've just gotten Manufacturing, ALL cities on the main continent are building a Manufacturing plant, have to drop science down to cumulative 50%, 30% Culture, 20% Science.
I've built over 80% or 4/5 along rivers, built for the 3 border expansion, and nearly all of the Mainland have Metropolitan Administrations.
I'm NOT in a golden age, have spaced out Palace, Summer Palace and Versailles out evenly with one or two other maintenance reducing buildings.
Smallest city pop wise is 17 on Main continent, but that's a Northern Ice base, feed by the sea only.
I think you just have to adjust your cities to build commerce yields, and stick with it.
Initially it seemed a disaster to run Republic, but it just kept getting better and better as I went along.
Started off in a Golden age, and kept it up after it finished, as the Golden age was only work 1K
and that's only 10% of slider.Gigantic map, eternity speed.
No Vassals, Trying to spawn one on 2nd Continent, but can't for some reason?? can take them, but can't spawn them. They all now say, "you've grown too powerful for us", or "we're doing fine on our own" in top half of leader board.
In response to the new model for the Conscription civic:
I think removing the production with food is a good idea. just because people are drafted doesn't mean no one is available to produce food. However, there are less people. I think there should be. a 33% increase in food required to grow, and maybe military production bonus nerfed a bit (50% is a lot).
I think removing the production with food is a good idea. just because people are drafted doesn't mean no one is available to produce food. However, there are less people. I think there should be. a 33% increase in food required to grow, and maybe military production bonus nerfed a bit (50% is a lot).
Afforess
The White Wizard
Well Nobility is fixed, re: comments from this thread.
I am still not sure about Conscription. Part of me just wants to revert it back to the way it was before. Thoughts?
I am still not sure about Conscription. Part of me just wants to revert it back to the way it was before. Thoughts?
45°38'N-13°47'E;13737042 said:
I looked at it a little. I wasn't very impressed. I think it had too many military "civics" that I think would be better modeled as "doctrine" national wonders. A military civic should represent the organization of your civilization's entire military forces, and choices like Special Forces or Air Superiority don't quite fit. Even if you are pursuing a policy of focusing on that one branch, you still have the rest of your military to consider.
I will look at its version of Single Party. There might be some elements to use there.
