Civilization 5 Rants Thread

[Lord Dante]

Personally, I like the 1upt set up. Its more realilistic. Just as in real life, the land dictates how many units you can place in a give area. However, I can understand the way people feel about it being so limiting, since the game areas are proportionally far smaller than the real world. So, I think there should be a compromise. Instead of stacking units, I think 3 or 4 units (of the same terrain type: i.e. only air with air, only land with land) should be able to stack to form some sort of battallion, platoon, or fleet. This way, the unproportional amount of hexes wont be so limiting, while at the same time it eliminates the unrealistic stacks of doom and keeps the real world-esque battle tactics still prevelant to the game. This was just an idea that I was mulling around with, but I think it is a reasonable middle ground for combining both real-world and efficiency.

I also want transport ships to be brought back. It just makes more sense. While I think the old 3 unit limit was a bit tight, I think an amount of 5 would be pretty sufficient. But what I really want is for ships to be able to sail up rivers into the inland. While it might be a challenge in terms of getting the hexes right, it just makes sense to me, since cities on rivers (like Paris, London, Washington) are all technically "inland" but still serve as major ports. Plus, it would give new aspects to naval warfar, as even inland river cities might not be safe.

Speaking of warfare, I think the building of units is a bit unrealistic. I think when a unit is built, it should cost the builder half a population point, because just as in real life, military personel come from the population, and if they die, so does a part of your population. If this was done it would put a realistic limit on armies, and make all players, AI and human, think twice before going to war, as any losses not only make your army weaker, but also make your nation as a whole weaker.

 

[Alexander Boney]

For some reason, Gandhi is a cruel, heartless, warmongering b*st*rd!

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[Unresolved]

Personally, I like the 1upt set up. Its more realilistic. Just as in real life, the land dictates how many units you can place in a give area. However, I can understand the way people feel about it being so limiting, since the game areas are proportionally far smaller than the real world. So, I think there should be a compromise. Instead of stacking units, I think 3 or 4 units (of the same terrain type: i.e. only air with air, only land with land) should be able to stack to form some sort of battallion, platoon, or fleet. This way, the unproportional amount of hexes wont be so limiting, while at the same time it eliminates the unrealistic stacks of doom and keeps the real world-esque battle tactics still prevelant to the game. This was just an idea that I was mulling around with, but I think it is a reasonable middle ground for combining both real-world and efficiency.

I also want transport ships to be brought back. It just makes more sense. While I think the old 3 unit limit was a bit tight, I think an amount of 5 would be pretty sufficient. But what I really want is for ships to be able to sail up rivers into the inland. While it might be a challenge in terms of getting the hexes right, it just makes sense to me, since cities on rivers (like Paris, London, Washington) are all technically "inland" but still serve as major ports. Plus, it would give new aspects to naval warfar, as even inland river cities might not be safe.

Speaking of warfare, I think the building of units is a bit unrealistic. I think when a unit is built, it should cost the builder half a population point, because just as in real life, military personel come from the population, and if they die, so does a part of your population. If this was done it would put a realistic limit on armies, and make all players, AI and human, think twice before going to war, as any losses not only make your army weaker, but also make your nation as a whole weaker.

I like your first two ideas. But I think your last one would cripple the AI as is. The only way they can win militarily is to suicide large numbers of troops until they overwhelm you. If they lost half a population point per unit killed, they would have 1 pop cities everywhere.

 

[Funky]

I find it rather amusing that directly after this,

There were numerous deep critiques of the game at release. The "you just want Civ 4.5" put-down was tired and pointless the week after release, and it hasn't improved with age.

(...)

What they need isn't Civ 4.x; it's going back to thinking about what made Civ fun for players with different game styles and designing something as versatile as the earlier versions were. That is *not* the same thing as demanding the same thing as those versions.

follow two posts from Civ 5 fans saying we just wanted Civ 4.5.

Guys you don't want to get it, do you? We didn't want Civ 4.5, we wanted Civ to become better. Instead it became worse. Much worse. That is the reason for the overwhelming indignation and frustration shown across all forums and in endless customer reviews throughout the internet since game release. That the shock still hasn't worn off just shows how great the disappointment is. And G&K, which made a bad game slightly less bad, is not the big salvation as it is sometimes refered to. But as long as there are still people around claiming that 1UPT is "more realistic", I guess we are fighting a lost cause.

 

[Moriarte]

To advance in Faith, one needs to find Religious City States which seems to depend on one's luck in rolling a map with nearby Religion City States plus luck in exploring in the correct direction, ideally a minimum path to the nearby Religion City States. If there are no nearby Religion City States, re-roll, because getting Faith without their help is too difficult, when the goal is winning ASAP using a Faith based strategy

Sun Tzu Wu, my rant is that you should rant better. That religion argument of yours is just nonsense.. Of course, religious CS are integral part of the game, but by no means are they 'required' to stock in huge faith per turn.

I do agree with you on espionage. Civ5 espionage is just a bad joke, compared to Civ4. In Civ5 you can basically steal a tech, protect your cap. from tech stealers, gain influence with CS, help gain line of sight for ranged attacks. That's it.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: Everyone who doesn't want to rant leaves this thread NOW!
Thanks.

 

[Sarang235]

I liked the game more than civ4. I just want that AI doesn't act ******ed most of the time. That would make this game the best for me.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Ah yes, the Call of Duty School of Game Design. I'm sure that's what the genre needs, a new game every year only slightly different than the one released last year.

Or, better yet, the same game released every five years that bears a striking similarity with a game released five years ago.

Sometimes, it really does boil down to wanting Firaxis to just doing Civilization IV Redux instead of actually doing something new.

At least publishing a game which was an improvement was better than their actual strategy, which was half-ass a combination of Civ and PG, hire a load of yes-men as testers, base it off new graphics software system, so that the designers of the software system could use public feedback of the game to bug-test their own product, allow the general public to pay full price in order to alpha-test it, and then when a small few of the bugs in the system are worked out, nerf every workable tactic or strategy into the ground, except the terminal inability of the AI to handle the game.

Yes I can see how releasing Civ 5 is better than releasing Civ 4.5, which, by the way, is not what I was talking about.

 

[Bad Brett]

It's so freakin' funny. All these people that yelled out "Haters!" just because we didn't want to "enjoy the benefits of Steam". Well, now the people at the Steam Forums are really pissed that SimCity 5 is going to be ...Origin Exclusive! Oh the irony.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756305

 

[Aaron90495]

It's so freakin' funny. All these people that yelled out "Haters!" just because we didn't want to "enjoy the benefits of Steam". Well, now the people at the Steam Forums are really pissed that SimCity 5 is going to be ...Origin Exclusive! Oh the irony.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756305

I see both sides, but 1) EA originally put in Origin's Terms of Use that it could use Origin as spyware, and 2) you'd have a hard time arguing that Origin is a superior service to Steam. Obviously, that first point irked quite a few potential users (myself included).

Although I see where you're coming from.

 

[frkhead]

It's so freakin' funny. All these people that yelled out "Haters!" just because we didn't want to "enjoy the benefits of Steam". Well, now the people at the Steam Forums are really pissed that SimCity 5 is going to be ...Origin Exclusive! Oh the irony.

Mouahahahah!!

I must confess.
That does make me feel good inside

 

[Civinator]

It's so freakin' funny. All these people that yelled out "Haters!" just because we didn't want to "enjoy the benefits of Steam". Well, now the people at the Steam Forums are really pissed that SimCity 5 is going to be ...Origin Exclusive! Oh the irony.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2756305

Bad Brett, thank you very much for that link! It shows, how crazy that whole system is.

 

[salty mud]

The main difference is Origin is spyware and made by EA; an absolutely horrendous company. Steam is made by Valve; a reputable company and you can be sure Steam won't install unwanted programs onto your PC.

 

[Ghpstage]

and you can be sure Steam won't install unwanted programs onto your PC.

To a not insignificant number of people steam itself is an unwanted program!

 

[salty mud]

To those people I say they are making a mountain out of a molehill. If they can't take time out of their day for a 1.5MB download then I feel sorry for them.

 

[Bad Brett]

The main difference is Origin is spyware and made by EA; an absolutely horrendous company. Steam is made by Valve; a reputable company and you can be sure Steam won't install unwanted programs onto your PC.

Yeah, yeah. This can be debated forever. It's like listening to a iPhone user trying to convince people how much better the iPhone is than other smart phones. Steam might very well be the lesser of two evil, but that's really not the point.

Of course, as Steam became more popular, this was unavoidable. Since Steam is such a successful marketplace, it was pretty obvious that other big companies would make their own services.

Eventually Steam will shut down. It has been around for over 10 years and sooner or later other services will take over the throne. What happens to your games then? Who knows.

This is pretty much the future. You may very well be forced to have 3-4 different third party softwares installed to be able to play the games you want. Was it really that bad to be able to install the game from a disc? You could always download a NoCD-patch if you got tired of changing discs.
Moderator Action: A no-cd patch by-passes the security systems of the software. Please do not advocate piracy in our forums as we have a zero tolerance policy concerning software piracy.
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Luckily this won't be a problem for me, since SimCity 5 seems to be as dumbed down as Civ V. No pipelines, no powerlines, no different zone types... You see, it has been "streamlined" so that roads will take care of everything. After all, it was just busy work, right. Though the thing people seem to forget is that busywork is a huge part of empire building games. Take that away and you'll find that there's very little left to do.

 

[Glassmage]

I doubt anything would rival Steam now.

 

[Bad Brett]

Moderator Action: A no-cd patch by-passes the security systems of the software. Please do not advocate piracy in our forums as we have a zero tolerance policy concerning software piracy.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Please do not accuse me for advocating piracy when I follow US laws:
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Spoiler :

On October 27, 2000, the Librarian of Congress, on the recommendation of the Register of Copyrights, announced the classes of works subject to the exemption from the prohibition on circumvention of technological measures that control access to copyrighted works. The two classes of works are:
* Compilations consisting of lists of websites blocked by filtering software applications; and
* Literary works, including computer programs and databases, protected by access control mechanisms that fail to permit access because of malfunction, damage, or obsoleteness.

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/anticirc.html

Persons who circumvent access controls in order to engage in noninfringing uses of works in these six classes will not be subject to the statutory prohibition against circumvention.
...
Video games accessible on personal computers and protected by technological protection measures that control access to lawfully obtained works, when circumvention is accomplished solely for the purpose of good faith testing for, investigating, or correcting security flaws or vulnerabilities, if:
(i) The information derived from the security testing is used primarily to promote the security of the owner or operator of a computer, computer system, or computer network; and
(ii) The information derived from the security testing is used or maintained in a manner that does not facilitate copyright infringement or a violation of applicable law.

http://www.copyright.gov/1201/2010/Librarian-of-Congress-1201-Statement.html

And yes, this overrides DMCA/EULA's, at least in the US. Do your homework before accusing members of "advocating piracy". I would never recommend anyone to do anything illegal.

 

[salty mud]

Eventually Steam will shut down. It has been around for over 10 years and sooner or later other services will take over the throne. What happens to your games then? Who knows.

Valve have already came out and said that if and when Steam shuts down all the games you purchased you can still play and own. This is a non-issue.

The rest of your post claiming we'll need 3-4 different programs to run a game is just utter guesswork and has no basis of fact. What advantage would a game company have to make buying games so needlessly complex?

 

[Neomega]

Luckily this won't be a problem for me, since SimCity 5 seems to be as dumbed down as Civ V. No pipelines, no powerlines, no different zone types...

That's the worst thing I've heard about a franchise, since well, 1upt!