DGDobrev
Warlord
The Iroquious have always been good friends and good RA partners. Even if I would be sad too see them go, we are searching for the ultimate civ to beat Deity (note - IMHO!!!), and do well against AI players and human ones as well 

The only caveat to this is that you will likely have to settle for a GA or GM as your first (preTheology) great person. You can't target an early GS, because scientist specialists are not available until you build Universities after you research Education (which is after you research Theology). You can get an Amphitheater or a Market early to run an artist or a merchant. If you are playing for a cultural victory, then the early GA (to settle as a Landmark) followed by 2-3 different great people from the Long Count might work out okay. It just lacks the flexibility to shape your destiny the way other UA (like for example Babylon's much earlier and truely free GS) allow you to.I'm less a fan of the Maya than I was but will support them just to counter the one poster with a targeted vendetta against them. The "liability" is being massively overstated - you may have one or two GPs you don't need who will count against your GP score, but not only is one "wasted" GP trivial as a disadvantage, you can put this off until very late in the game, and so it really does nothing to slow targeted GP production. Your first picks will almost always be Scientist, Engineer and Prophet in that or a slightly different order, possibly next with General who doesn't add to the GP cost. And it's the first two or three GPs, which come early, which make the difference - merely having the game's only UA that provides both a GS and a GE makes Maya a powerhouse.
The Theology beeline is not critical, and is probably least critical on higher difficulty levels where the game won't usually go on long enough for the long count cycle to begin anew (which in my experience of reaching 2012 as the Maya - which I had to play to after the game had already been one - doesn't seem to happen. Though maybe if I'd played till 2013 I'd have got a new GP?). What's more, if you really don't want all seven GPs, what do you lose by going for Theology late and risking missing a 7th "useless" merchant or whatever? Nothing in the Maya UA says you have to take Theology in time to get all the GPs if you don't want to - indeed the fact that it takes a specific tech to kick in can be seen as a point in its favour by giving you more control over whether and when you suffer the 'drawback'.
Please give reasons. I am really loving the information everyone gives in this thread, and have had alot of fun trying some of these higher and lower civs. Never would of tried them.
The only caveat to this is that you will likely have to settle for a GA or GM as your first (preTheology) great person. You can't target an early GS, because scientist specialists are not available until you build Universities after you research Education (which is after you research Theology). You can get an Amphitheater or a Market early to run an artist or a merchant. If you are playing for a cultural victory, then the early GA (to settle as a Landmark) followed by 2-3 different great people from the Long Count might work out okay. It just lacks the flexibility to shape your destiny the way other UA (like for example Babylon's much earlier and truely free GS) allow you to.
Arabia 29
Babylon 29
Carthage 18
China 25
England 13
Ethiopia 7
Greece 0
Inca 28
Iroquois 0
Korea 27
Maya 20
Netherlands 22
Persia 22
Roman Empire 1
Russia 7
Siam 17
Greece : i m not really a fan , rest in peace.
Siam : Quite some versatility in their UA (maybe not so much for domination but still) , UB and UU are pretty nice , siam gets my vote for today.
Arabia 29
Babylon 29
Carthage 18
China 25
England 13
Ethiopia 7 -2
Inca 28
Korea 27
Maya 20
Netherlands 22 +1
Persia 22
Roman Empire 1
Russia 7
Siam 17
Upvoting Holland once more. They're just a ton of fun to play when you're swimming in oodles of money. And the most colorful too, thanks to those beautiful polders post economics.
Downvoting Ethiopia. It's just a bit dull to play with. The Mehal Safari + their innate combat bonus is cool and all, but...it just doesn't promote any fun playstyles.
The point I was trying to make is that you can only run an artist (via Amphitheater) or merchant (via Market) if you are delaying Theology to generate a great person naturally before the Long Count starts increasing the cost. You are much better off beelining Theology and getting a "free" GS and GE (or GP if you prefer) earlier. In my recent Maya game they popped on turn 72 and turn 86 respectively. The downside (and thus liability) is that you have now increased the cost of generating a great person from natural specialist and wonder points by a factor of 3x. Your Long Count will not generate another GS or GE until near the end of the game, and as you take the GA and GM from the Long count the cost to generate great people will increase still further.I'm not sure what you're getting at here - why would I produce a pre-Theology GP if I don't want to? If I want the culture bonus from amphitheaters (as I often do), what's to stop me putting the specialist in for a few turns to farm culture and then taking him out before enough GA points accumulate to produce an Artist? This is particularly easy in a wide empire, since I can just manage my specialists by removing one from an amphitheater in one city and replacing it with a specialist in another amphitheater in a city with fewer accumulated GA points. Few of the Wonders I like to aim for produce Artist points (except Pisa), and on Deity and playing wide it's hard to get Wonders anyway (unless you happen to have a "free" Engineer, of course), so there's limited 'accidental' accumulation of GPs. The Theology beeline obviously puts you in a good position to take Education quickly - it doesn't have to be the next tech (and often won't be as I'll usually go back along the earlier tech paths I missed), but I'll generally still get it ahead of the competition.
I still see little flexibility in Babylon - if you're really only playing it for the free 1st GS, it really pales in comparison to the science boost you get from a 4+-city Maya play, which brings a continuous beaker boost to the table earlier than Korea. The major part of the Babylonian UA is the 50% bonus on GP production (which, much like the Maya UA, provides a benefit that inflates the cost of later GPs more than you would otherwise - the key advantage for both is that you get the GPs you need earlier), which demands a generally specific playstyle. It's simply bizarre to suggest that a UA that allows you to choose not only the order in which it provides its advantages but also the timing when you start to reap the benefits lacks flexibiity.
EDIT: You responded too quickly - I elaborated on the post you responded to with edits while you were typing your response.
I'm also not really seeing Ethiopia as a cultural civ - all it gives in culture is +1 culture per monument
The point I was trying to make is that you can only run an artist (via Amphitheater) or merchant (via Market) if you are delaying Theology to generate a great person naturally before the Long Count starts increasing the cost.
You are much better off beelining Theology and getting a "free" GS and GE (or GP if you prefer) earlier.
In my recent Maya game they popped on turn 72 and turn 86 respectively. The downside (and thus liability) is that you have now increased the cost of generating a great person from natural specialist and wonder points by a factor of 3x. Your Long Count will not generate another GS or GE until near the end of the game,
Now compare this to Babylon. You get a truly free (does not increase cost) GS at Writing which can be settled as an Academy for +8(+12
once the National Library is finished, and +24 :c5science later after Freedom is finished) which accumulates every turn for the entire game. Assuming you take the GS on turn 72 as Maya, that is a minimum of 448
produced over the preceding 56 turns (more if the National College is finished) which is 3-4 techs that Babylon is already ahead this early in the game.
The +50% GS generation also helps the capital to churn out GS more often throughout the game while other cities can specialize on other types of great people to get a few of the other great people types you want when you want them.
The bottom line is thatis everything in CiV. The faster you can out research your opponents, the more you can accomplish anything else in the game (warfare, wonder building, infrastructure improvement, expansion, etc.).
Arabia 29
Babylon 30
Carthage 18
China 25
England 13
Ethiopia 9
Inca 28
Korea 27
Maya 20
Netherlands 21
Persia 19
Roman Empire 12
Russia 7
Siam 17
How did Persia magically get 3 extra points in post 711? It went from 16 to 19. That can't even be an arror. Surely it was deliberate. I cry foul on user theguy8882. It should have been 16 at that point.
Cman, Uzumati, animalguy then upvoted to make 19.
Ethiopia will often trump Celts for getting early religion since he doesn't have to rely on settling beside forests and Legalism give free Steles.