[LP] Civilization VI: Leader Pass - Discussion Thread

[tedhebert]

Mbande on Marathon wins before Theology (i.e. before Khmer can build its Temple).
See earlier screen grab.
Classical start. So this is in just over 100 turns. Not optimised.

Still, your example for this is standard map + Kandy… I’d say that VERY situational…

I’m playing a game with her atm on huge 7 seas map, no Kandy… it’s on deity, but I can garantee you
that I’m absolutely not running away with that game

 

[blackbutterfly]

Still, your example for this is standard map + Kandy… I’d say that VERY situational…

Maybe not very.

Play Mbande + Kandy on any TSL Earth map, (I tried it on two) Snowflake or Pangea (the most popular map esp. in MP) and I think she'd be exploitable.

If they move the bonus palace slots out of the CUA into Mvemba's LUA that would solve the issue.

Yeah, I think you're right. Firaxis should have done this.
Again, I suppose b'cos it's free, this Leader Pass seems very half arsed.

Perhaps the Civ team want to show that they're still relevant? IDK
Marvel's Midnight Suns releases tomorrow. It looks like a hit!

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I think what must have happened is that the map generator somehow came up with a map where only one island had any viable start locations, so everyone was bunched together. Which brings me to another point - I used to imagine that a restart put you in a different place on the same geography, which I'm sure is not the case - the geography will be regenerated. This is important with the Got Lakes? mod, where many settings can be random. For instance, in the standard game, you specify if you want a lot of desert or very little - with Got Lakes? you can leave this to the gods. Which means if you restart, what was a desert-heavy map may be desert-light after restart.

This is a bit off-topic, for which apologies.

You're thinking of the Random Number Seed.

If the Random Number Seed is untouched, and no major changes are done to the core (usually, the script and settings of the map), the map will be exactly the same, and you should, in theory, be placed in the same position every time.

If you pre-define your seed (Rather than leaving it random), then the result will be 100% the same every time assuming the settings and database remain unchanged (though even with database, I presume that it will remain unchanged).

Got Lakes from what I remember, has A LOT of settings, including for randomized inner settings (like Age, Wettness etc in regular maps), if those are left to a random, then yes, they will be random, but if they are pre-defined, then you will generally get a similiar looking map, but with the actual map generation still left to a random map generator. When you press Restart, and haven't defined the seed yourself, the seed is changed every time you restart. Hence different maps.

 

[tedhebert]

@blackbutterfly Still the presence of kandy remains RNG… unless you’re telling me TSL maps also force the location of CSes ? If so, then ok… I never ever play TSL maps, so the problem (if existent) doesn’t really apply to me…

 

[Linklite]

Yeah, it seems very much a "if the stars align" exploit. The only reliable way of using it is Earth TSL maps, even then, it's in Sri Lanka while Kongo is in Africa, so you have to explore through Africa to Asia and across India to find it, then win suzerainty over it. Then you can start exploring other places to find natural wonders.

Don't get me wrong, when you start next to Kandy, you'll be rocketing, but it's very much a "when the stars align" for that. In most circumstances, it'll be a significant boost but not game breaking, because even if it's in the game, it's a race to find Kandy before you run too low on unfound natural wonders to capitalise on it.

The one exploit you can do quite reliably is Earth TSL (either size, smaller is easier to get Kandy sooner, larger gives you more natural wonders first), multiplayer, team visibility, and have the other player India. You'll lose the first meeting bonus envoy but you'll find them immediately, and then refrain from exploring until you get suzerainty over them.

 

[pokiehl]

You're thinking of the Random Number Seed.

If the Random Number Seed is untouched, and no major changes are done to the core (usually, the script and settings of the map), the map will be exactly the same, and you should, in theory, be placed in the same position every time.

If you pre-define your seed (Rather than leaving it random), then the result will be 100% the same every time assuming the settings and database remain unchanged (though even with database, I presume that it will remain unchanged).

Got Lakes from what I remember, has A LOT of settings, including for randomized inner settings (like Age, Wettness etc in regular maps), if those are left to a random, then yes, they will be random, but if they are pre-defined, then you will generally get a similiar looking map, but with the actual map generation still left to a random map generator. When you press Restart, and haven't defined the seed yourself, the seed is changed every time you restart. Hence different maps.

I think he was just saying if you leave the different settings in Got Lakes as random, hitting Restart can result in different pulls for the random setting, which is very true. I don't think he meant to imply anything about databases or seeds or anything technical.

When you press Restart, and haven't defined the seed yourself, the seed is changed every time you restart. Hence different maps.

The bolded part is not true. When you press Restart, both of the Game Random Seed and Map Random Seed options are completely changed, regardless of whether you inputted your own values. You can verify this by setting up a game with nothing left to "random", typing in whatever seeds you want, then loading it up and hitting Restart.

 

[Horizons]

I'm glad to see that the new additions to Civ6 are thoughtful and balanced in typical Firaxis tradition.

 

[UWHabs]

Yeah, it seems very much a "if the stars align" exploit. The only reliable way of using it is Earth TSL maps, even then, it's in Sri Lanka while Kongo is in Africa, so you have to explore through Africa to Asia and across India to find it, then win suzerainty over it. Then you can start exploring other places to find natural wonders.

Don't get me wrong, when you start next to Kandy, you'll be rocketing, but it's very much a "when the stars align" for that. In most circumstances, it'll be a significant boost but not game breaking, because even if it's in the game, it's a race to find Kandy before you run too low on unfound natural wonders to capitalise on it.

The one exploit you can do quite reliably is Earth TSL (either size, smaller is easier to get Kandy sooner, larger gives you more natural wonders first), multiplayer, team visibility, and have the other player India. You'll lose the first meeting bonus envoy but you'll find them immediately, and then refrain from exploring until you get suzerainty over them.

Yeah, I think there's plenty of "if stars align" type of exploits that aren't any different. Even that one listed still requires you to start near Kandy, be able to ally them early, and also still discover some natural wonders for free relics. Plus still go through the whole religion/reliquaries route. Yeah, if everything aligns, I could definitely see how you could get a super fast win with her, but with how many steps it takes, I'd treat that as a lot more of a "if it works out for you, enjoy" rather than truly being anything game breaking.

I played with her, and honestly the best part of her ability is just being able to found a religion and use the civ's abilities, since Mvemba I would argue is one of the only leaders with a truly negative LUA. I think simply having her civ ability as "Not Mvemba" would have been enough to make her a fun leader to play as, just to be able to play Kongo with a religion.

 

[Disgustipated]

So no new achievements, but the hall of fame still has the new leader heads in it. I imagine that was much easier to put into the game than achievements.

Of course, that means I have no choice but to play every leader, which I intended to do anyways. But I can't have those blank leaders looking at me like that, wanting to be played. Funny that I feel the need to play every leader when I never did for Civ 5, 4, 3, or 2. I never played those games like I have this one, however. Question is if I can finish all my games before the next 3 drop. My games take a while.

 

[Thormodr]

Quite enjoyed the Queen of Kongo. Pretty fun and bonkers in the right situation.

The ones I am really looking forward to down the road are Norway and Mali. Sadly, I think they will eat into Norway's fun raiding ability with something dull and Mali's ability to make scads of gold with some boring warmonger stuff.

Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Eva-kun]

So no new achievements, but the hall of fame still has the new leader heads in it. I imagine that was much easier to put into the game than achievements.

Of course, that means I have no choice but to play every leader, which I intended to do anyways. But I can't have those blank leaders looking at me like that, wanting to be played. Funny that I feel the need to play every leader when I never did for Civ 5, 4, 3, or 2. I never played those games like I have this one, however. Question is if I can finish all my games before the next 3 drop. My games take a while.

The game will add new CIV into HoF from what I noticed when I had mod civilization enable.

Odd they couldn't just add the simple "Win" achievement.

 

[queenpea]

The game will add new CIV into HoF from what I noticed when I had mod civilization enable.

Odd they couldn't just add the simple "Win" achievement.

Yeah I thought this was odd -- after my first win with Mbande, I couldn't help but feel a little disappointed when I didn't get my little achievement.

 

[Disgustipated]

The game will add new CIV into HoF from what I noticed when I had mod civilization enable.

ahh yes, forgot about that. I did have new leader faces for Stalin and Lenin when I got the Soviet Union mod.

 

[blackbutterfly]

Has anyone noticed greater instability of the game since the Great Negotiators DLC?

I've added Abe Lincoln to two of my scenarios, Colonization of the New World and the Deluxe version.
I play tested the first one (which is essentially Standard Rules) no problem.

But the deluxe version (GS rules) is constantly getting hanging Exceptions.

Engine.log:

[2022-12-03 14:46:09] Bug collection enabled
[2022-12-03 14:46:09] Application Session Hash = 6711625352051100491
[2022-12-03 14:46:09] Hostname Hash = C0E10F60
[2022-12-03 14:46:09] Started bug helper
[2022-12-03 14:47:19] Memory usage: 3.013Gb
[2022-12-03 14:48:19] Memory usage: 4.100Gb

This is the only thing I can see, an increased memory usage. (But my rig is 16GB).

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Review of the first four leaders
Abraham Lincoln: His abilities don't particularly synergize with the civ's other abilities. He leans more towards domination where the other abilities are more for diplomacy or culture. If you don't go for domination, you end up with a lot of melee units standing around. It's a good thing they are maintenance-free. The loyalty penalty for plantations is basically irrelevant outside of a few edge cases.

Nzinga Mbande: Her ability is actually pretty nice and synergizes with both the Mbamba and the bonus to relics and statuary. Unfortunately, it's all pretty much under the hood and doesn't require any unique considerations or strategy, so it ends up feeling a bit generic. Get relics. Settle by Rainforest/Woods. Keep most of your cities on your own continent. That's it.

Sultan Saladin: This one actually surprised me. I usually don't mess around much with religion, so imagine my surprise when I kind of really enjoyed deploying fire teams of apostles with gurus to flip enemy holy cities. I paired it with Fez's suze bonus to generate some pretty good science. It might actually be better than Vizier Saladin's bonus to tier 3 holy site buildings, which is just a bit of a trudge to get the benefit from.

Julius Caesar: He's not technically part of the pack, as he's a bonus for linking your 2K account, but he really synced well with my playstyle. I am really staunch about hunting barbarian camps (with the clans mode), so it lends itself to my style to get a lot more money for demanding tribute from the barbarians, sometimes over and over. I never hurt for gold the whole game. It turned out to be one of my fastest victories ever of any type. I hadn't even managed to get Steel to increase the gold tribute.

 

[Abaxial]

I'm actually finding the game MORE stable - I can often start the game without it crashing first.

With regards to the random start, I was thinking of the possibility of randomising start locations while having the same physical geography. But I don't think that is possible at all.

 

[Stoic]

Am I wrong, or in addition to the steam trophies they didn't even add background music to the new leaders?

 

[Zaarin]

Am I wrong, or in addition to the steam trophies they didn't even add background music to the new leaders?

No alt leader/persona has had different music.

 

[Stoic]

no, i mean no background music is heard when you open the page to trade with the leader

 

[Stomper66]

I appreciate the new content this late in the game and the new leaders look great! I'm a little confused though as we are getting 13 new leaders (new models with new animations) and 6 new skins (still expensive model work).
As I imagine modelling new leaders is the most expensive thing to do (followed by the building / uu art and music) I have to ask the question, for the same costs and effort why not just release another expansion with the same amount of civs and wonders as the three previous expansions (9 was it)?

For the 9 animated leaders and just a tad more work (-4 model and animation work) we could have got civs like Iroquois, Austria, Morocco, Shoshone, Finland, Assyria, Carthage and Huns. I would have actually paid for that dlc as well especially with some new wonders thrown in. I don't really need to see several versions of Victoria and Cleopatra and giving new leaders for the same civ kind of ruins the surprise and limits the options for civ7.

Like I say I'm thankful for the free content I just think it was a bit of a wasted opportunity which could have been more beneficial to both firaxis and the fans.

Moderator Action: Moved to correct thread. leif