[LP] Civilization VI: Leader Pass - Discussion Thread

[queenpea]

If it's just that ability on it's own, I agree. If it's paired with an ability making naval units, or naval raiders with particularly the Seadog, better and more interesting than it would work.

What about a naval combat bonus versus civilizations that follow a religion other than your own? Along with a movement bonus?

 

[queenpea]

What about a naval combat bonus versus civilizations that follow a religion other than your own? Along with a movement bonus?

+ naval units are not subject to storm damage?

"Protestant Wind" ?

 

[UWHabs]

I wouldn't terribly mind seeing a sea equivalent to Shaka's ability. Early Fleets/Armadas, stronger fleets/armadas, and have your naval melee units upgrade when they're used to capture a city. A little more flavor then a pure combat strength bonus.

 

[InsidiousMage]

I wouldn't terribly mind seeing a sea equivalent to Shaka's ability. Early Fleets/Armadas

Spain has this and you unlock both Fleets and Armadas at the same, with Mercantilism, and the only thing it does is reinforce how useless navies are unless you have Battleships and your opponent has either no walls in their cities or only ancient walls.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

This all is bumming me out. It's starting to look like Eliza-Navy is going to be subpar, no matter how it shapes up.

 

[InsidiousMage]

This all is bumming me out. It's starting to look like Eliza-Navy is going to be subpar, no matter how it shapes up.

I mean, this is just a byproduct of navies being generally useless in the game anyway. I've had navies matter literally once in the two thousand odd hours I've played the game and it was because of extreme case that I'll ever encounter again. For those curious, I was doing a conquest game as Chandraguptra and the closest civ near to me, Greece in this case, was on a mountain-offed peninsula so the only way to get to them was to use some galleys to clear out Greece's galleys so they wouldn't kill all of my land units.

Literally the only thing I use a navy for in any of games I play is to clear out coastal barb camps so they don't pillage my coastal cities.

 

[AntSou]

And by the way, +10CS means combat strength. For all situations. Not just for use against city-states. That's not what CS means when associated with a +/- number. It's not copying Fred.

Oops, misread that!

Still not a fan of +CS leader abilities.

What about: Naval units do full damage to the city's walls.

That would still require the player to clear enemy naval units, but would encourage the player to use his navy to assault enemy cities. Those cities don't even need to be on the coast when it comes to Raider and Ranged naval units.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

+ naval units are not subject to storm damage?

"Protestant Wind" ?

That sort of feels redundant with Hojo's Divine Wind. Though maybe her naval units could just get combat strength against civs who have built more naval units?

 

[IvoryPavane]

Oops, misread that!

Still not a fan of +CS leader abilities.

What about: Naval units do full damage to the city's walls.

That would still require the player to clear enemy naval units, but would encourage the player to use his navy to assault enemy cities. Those cities don't even need to be on the coast when it comes to Raider and Ranged naval units.

The only worry there is how few cities can be on the coast.

If she had a Jong type ability where she can carry a unit on her boats, she could have a warrior embark to take cities she bombards from afar, that would be neat

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That sort of feels redundant with Hojo's Divine Wind. Though maybe her naval units could just get combat strength against civs who have built more naval units?

Protestant Wind: The effect of English Coal Power Plants on the Climate is doubled. And the Combat Strength of all Naval units are doubled against enemy Naval units when both are affected by a Hurricane, Sand Storm, or Blizzard.

 

[pokiehl]

This all is bumming me out. It's starting to look like Eliza-Navy is going to be subpar, no matter how it shapes up.

The design space for naval-oriented abilities in this game has well and truly been exhausted. Combine that with the fact that they’re probably not going to be adding new abilities to the code, and it’s hard to disagree with you.

 

[queenpea]

This all is bumming me out. It's starting to look like Eliza-Navy is going to be subpar, no matter how it shapes up.

This is kind of how I'm feeling about Leader Pass right now. I haven't been hugely excited about any of the new leaders. Admittedly, I'm a Mac player so I haven't been able to have a crack at China.

I would be much more enthusiastic if we were receiving new builds (units, improvements, buildings, wonders), but this seems out of the question at this point. IMHO, a greater diversity of builds would add flavor to some of the new leaders which, for some, have felt rather bland.

 

[Republic of San Montuoso]

Honestly, if anybody else is going to get an abundance of artifacts, at least before archaeology was really a thing, it should be Egypt.

One of the time when I had a brainfart is when I learnt that Ancient Egyptians had archaeologists themselves to study Even More Ancient Egypt. Like, we have a tendency to think of it as a continuity, and yet, it was so long that we forget about it.

As for Elizabeth... Yeah, naval gameplay is lackluster. I don't see what we could add that other civs or leaders already do.
Perhaps making all her units act as Privateers, as in they're invisible until in range of another unit or special districts?

However, I kind of liked the "+1 CS to naval units for each Great Work of Writing in the Capital". Or perhaps "+25% combat experience per Great Work of Writing in the city for all naval units trained in this city".

All of that wouldn't really work well with Workshops of the World, but could work with British Museum (as in you'll have more chance to have Theater Squares with Amphitheaters containing Great Work of Writing). It would work with the Sea Dog and the RNDY, though, so it's that at least.

 

[Aurelesk]

All depends if they are going to add new mechanic or not. I want to believe that the last leaders are more prone to have unique abilities. England has a colonization theme, but as "conquering city" with military might. I wonder if they are going to have a more "Phoenician" approach to colonisation. Something like that:

"Coast tiles provide +1 Production and +1 Gold. Cities founded on continent different than your Capital's start with five additional tiles, and gain +3 Population and +2 Loyalty per turn. Once the Exploration civic is discovered, all newly trained Naval Melee units gain access to the unique Colonize action, which consumes the unit to found a City on a valid adjacent land tile."

Basically, this is an underwhelming copy and paste from Sea-Russia + Hic Sunt Dracones with an extra mechanic. Builders can put a tile improvement on a adjacent Mountain (Ski Resort), so I just hope they could manage to add it.

 

[Nikolai II]

All depends if they are going to add new mechanic or not. I want to believe that the last leaders are more prone to have unique abilities. England has a colonization theme, but as "conquering city" with military might. I wonder if they are going to have a more "Phoenician" approach to colonisation. Something like that:

"Coast tiles provide +1 Production and +1 Gold. Cities founded on continent different than your Capital's start with five additional tiles, and gain +3 Population and +2 Loyalty per turn. Once the Exploration civic is discovered, all newly trained Naval Melee units gain access to the unique Colonize action, which consumes the unit to found a City on a valid adjacent land tile."

Basically, this is an underwhelming copy and paste from Sea-Russia + Hic Sunt Dracones with an extra mechanic. Builders can put a tile improvement on a adjacent Mountain (Ski Resort), so I just hope they could manage to add it.

Gain +3 population per turn?

 

[Mesix]

How about when playing as England, revolts on continents other than your starting continent spawn new civs?

 

[Aurelesk]

Gain +3 population per turn?

Well I need some help for my 400 Population challenge!

Yeah, I tried to emulate the wording of the abilities. The wording is frankly inconsistent in the franchise (just look at the Poland description!). They usually write Loyalty as Loyalty per turn, but I can change that to make it less confusing. I meant that cities on foreign continent start at 4 Population, even 7 with the Hic Sunt Dracones golden age dedication.
Sure, the ability needs balance probably (change the Production for Food?) but this is more a proof of concept than a real proposition. I could even add a malus like "Settlers cannot embark" just to force the use of Naval units for it, or justify a somewhat downside for a too powerful ability? So, something like that:

"Coast tiles provide +1 Food and +1 Gold. Cities founded on continent different than your Capital's start with five additional tiles, and gain +3 Population and +2 Loyalty. Once the Exploration civic is discovered, all newly trained Naval Melee units gain access to the unique Colonize action, which consumes the unit to found a City on a valid adjacent land tile. Settlers cannot embark."

Or maybe the idea is completely dumb, and that is fair to me as well.

 

[bbbt]

So, if we are make guesses based on her leaked intro:

Elizabeth Regina, Virgin Queen of England and Monarch of the seas, you command the wooden wall that defends England from those who would seize it. Guard yourself against intrigues at home and abroad, and let your captain set sail at your command. Bow your head to no one and Britannia shall rule the waves.

I'd actually lean something potentially defensive spy related (guard yourself against intrigues) and/or Great Admiral related ("let your captain set sail")

I don't know that they'd go back to the spy well after Wu Zeitan, but maybe defense related given that they didn't explicitly do that with her (which many assumed they would).

I don't know that any leader has anything Great Admiral related.

+1 to spy level when defending? A city with a spy defending gains +1 admiral point per turn? Those are pretty boring.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

One of the time when I had a brainfart is when I learnt that Ancient Egyptians had archaeologists themselves to study Even More Ancient Egypt. Like, we have a tendency to think of it as a continuity, and yet, it was so long that we forget about it.

As for Elizabeth... Yeah, naval gameplay is lackluster. I don't see what we could add that other civs or leaders already do.
Perhaps making all her units act as Privateers, as in they're invisible until in range of another unit or special districts?

However, I kind of liked the "+1 CS to naval units for each Great Work of Writing in the Capital". Or perhaps "+25% combat experience per Great Work of Writing in the city for all naval units trained in this city".

All of that wouldn't really work well with Workshops of the World, but could work with British Museum (as in you'll have more chance to have Theater Squares with Amphitheaters containing Great Work of Writing). It would work with the Sea Dog and the RNDY, though, so it's that at least.

One of the great Mesopotamian cultures had archeologists too. Humanity is just old enough that there was ancient stuff to the people we think of as ancient.

 

[Abaxial]

I'm amazed at this talking down of navies. My usual strategy is to be nice and peaceful until I get battleships. Then I pick a victim, bombard a coastal city with three of them. Once it is weak enough, the ironclad goes in for the capture. Then the city becomes the focus for buying units with gold or faith, and expansion.