thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Pariah, are you modding, or are you just putting these list together for me to use? if you want, i can send you a copy of the BTS civilizationinfo.XML and the leaderheadinfos.XML
Civilizations
- Thread starter xmen510
- Start date
Elda King
Prince
About having less civs than BTS, well, it's more than enougth for me - and about more Shadow civs, the idea in putting only one civ is to represent that all the evil in Arda ultimately came from Morgoth, and (though the other peoples didn't see it) acted with one single purpose all the time. The Men like the Haradrim and Easterlings in truth had free-will, and weren't evil in their original purpose, just went under the lies of Morgoth/Sauron (the Worship the Darkness religion), but Morgoth, Angband, Utumno, were only a single evil in different times.
But truly, I forgot about Angmar, and it would be a good "hybrid" civ (like Dunland, mostly a Human civ but capable of building Orcs later on the tech tree).
But truly, I forgot about Angmar, and it would be a good "hybrid" civ (like Dunland, mostly a Human civ but capable of building Orcs later on the tech tree).
bob bobato
L'imparfait
They weren't always the same people! Morgoth and Sauron were very different. The only soldier that they had in common were orcs. They didn't even speak the same language!(Sauron invented his own language), and Morgoth\Sauron had completelly diffenrent cultures. They might have had the same purpose, but that doesn't mean that much. Lots of countries have 'the same purpose'. Even though Sauron worked for Morgoth, doesn't mean they were the same. Really, Morgoth and Saron are as similar as Arnor and Gondor, and to a certain extant the different types of Dwarves and Elves. If you don't believe me, Il show you the diffenreces.
Morgoth
Soldier people: Orcs, Dragons, Balrogs, bit more
-Where they came from: Morgoth invented Dragons and Orcs. Balrogs were Maiar.
Major Enemy: Elves
Leaders: Mostly fallen Maia.
Architecture: More natural, with mountainss, and caves, and so on, though they also have 'normal' forstresses.
Language:NOT the Black Speach
Sauron
Soldier people: Orcs, Trolls, bit more
-Where they came from: Orcs are all thats left of Morgoths armies, Trolls were found by Sauron and 'perverted'
Major Enemy: Humans
Leaders: Some fallen Maia, but mostly orcs. All the fallen Maia are from Morgoth
Architecture: Mostly normal fortress, a few caves maybe.
Language: the Black Speach, which was invented by Sauron for his own empire.
So, really, Sauron wasn't Morgoth, but a few relics of his ancient empire that really changed over the years. Sauron and a couple of his fallen Maia were really all the people who had to do with Morgoth.
Put this into the mod, and it would make little sense. You can't have Balrogs fighting Minas Tirith, and Trolls shouldn't be with Morgoth.
Morgoth
Soldier people: Orcs, Dragons, Balrogs, bit more
-Where they came from: Morgoth invented Dragons and Orcs. Balrogs were Maiar.
Major Enemy: Elves
Leaders: Mostly fallen Maia.
Architecture: More natural, with mountainss, and caves, and so on, though they also have 'normal' forstresses.
Language:NOT the Black Speach
Sauron
Soldier people: Orcs, Trolls, bit more
-Where they came from: Orcs are all thats left of Morgoths armies, Trolls were found by Sauron and 'perverted'
Major Enemy: Humans
Leaders: Some fallen Maia, but mostly orcs. All the fallen Maia are from Morgoth
Architecture: Mostly normal fortress, a few caves maybe.
Language: the Black Speach, which was invented by Sauron for his own empire.
So, really, Sauron wasn't Morgoth, but a few relics of his ancient empire that really changed over the years. Sauron and a couple of his fallen Maia were really all the people who had to do with Morgoth.
Put this into the mod, and it would make little sense. You can't have Balrogs fighting Minas Tirith, and Trolls shouldn't be with Morgoth.
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Yeah, angmar would be nice... Angmar is one of the civs i can raelly imagine having a leader hero.
Elda King
Prince
Sauron and Morgoth did very different things, but at least for a while Sauron served Morgoth, and only became a real leader when he departed. He was the "heir" of his orcs and trolls (Morgoth created the trolls, with enchantments that animated them from stone as the ents were "made from wood"; but in that time there was no sun, and when the sun came out, he discovered it's light broked the spell), and he improved them (creating Uruks and Ologs). Sauron was less maniac them Morgoth, but he still did the will of Morgoth (that even when "out of the world" - truly, it means he was dispersed, not actually locked outside the world - influenced the world, becoming a kind of personification of evil), and used it's corruption over the world, and made the people of Numenor worship him (though only because he could not sugest himself, a prisioner, as a god). In the books, it's said a lot of times that "there was a single will moving all the enemies of the free peoples", it's the Shadow, the evil in a whole.
bob bobato
L'imparfait
It may have said that it was always the shadow moving the enmies, but that doesn't mean the enemies are the shadow. Mabey, instead, there could be an 'evil' religion and all the evil civs could automatically have it.
Pariah
Outside Influence
Don't worry, I already identified those files. I was originally writing the city lists in XML format - just put them in a pure text form for display on this forum - ad then carried on creating more lists and modifying them in text form. I promise I will get the XML files finished too.
We just need to be sure we are all happy with the content...
Elda King
Prince
About the religions, I'll create a new thread about it. We already have the "Worship the Darkness" religion, that links The Shadow (wich founds it) to other civs. But the relation between Sauron and Morgoth is much stronger, and the differences between their realms could be simply because of the age (in the first age, there wasn't Dark Speech yet, for example - good idea of a tech for the Shadow) or the map.
And pariah, great job! Have you tested what you've done so far?
And pariah, great job! Have you tested what you've done so far?
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
If were putting angmar in, though, i think it needs some interesting unique mechanic (any ideas?)
maybe limit the King hero to them... or make them spawn from the shadow at a certain point?
maybe limit the King hero to them... or make them spawn from the shadow at a certain point?
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
they need something to differentiate them from the shadow alot. (maybe something as simple as giving them all the fear promotion...)
bob bobato
L'imparfait
Angmar, and the Witch-King at Minas Morgul, were really Vassals to Mordor, and could never have stood out on their own. They were both lead by Nazgul (but who was being led?orcs? Evil Men? Someone had to live in Angmar), so maybe there could be a special Shodow unit who could secretly infiltrate an enemy civ and convert it to the shadow and become a Vassal to Mordor-which is a bit like what happened to Numenor, and might have happened to Rohan-though both countries didn't know that. Or, the Shadow could offer other kings a Ring, which would eventually have the same effect (though the player probably wouldn't accept it). But how this would be possible in the mod... the ring could make the other civ more accepting of the shadow's suggestions, which would include changing religions and becoming a Vassal-though a modified one.
This has nothing to do with Angmar as a civ, though.
This has nothing to do with Angmar as a civ, though.
T_F
Reynardine the Great
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2007
- Messages
- 1,163
Linx to BFME2 stuff -
http://bfme2.heavengames.com/factions/angmar
http://bfme2.heavengames.com/factions/mordor
Sure, they took some liberties, but it's not a bad example.
Also, perhaps all Angmar units automatically have an anti-cold promo - sort of like the way Bitter Winter and the Winter Warfare stuff works in RTW.
http://bfme2.heavengames.com/factions/angmar
http://bfme2.heavengames.com/factions/mordor
Sure, they took some liberties, but it's not a bad example.
Also, perhaps all Angmar units automatically have an anti-cold promo - sort of like the way Bitter Winter and the Winter Warfare stuff works in RTW.
Elda King
Prince
It would be easy to diferentiate it from the Shadow: they're a human kingdom! And, at least until the third age, they wouldn't have access to orcs and trolls (but would have several "evil" units: warlocks/sorcerers, raiders, Black Knights, and so on; they would be exactly like Dunland, but more "evil-oriented" and less "barbaric-oriented"). They would have the human unit set (yes, units are based on race, not on sub-race - edain and dark men have the same units, except UUs, as do the Noldor and the Sindar), evil UUs, and later (if they accept the Worship the Darkness) they may build orcs and trolls, and maybe Nazgul. It's a pity to lose the Witch King as a hero, but some things have to be... Now, that him and Saruman out, I for sure want king units!
Just one more thing I just realised: in a random game, if The Shadow is out the game, there would not be the WtD religion, and no orcs! It really makes a lot of sense.
Just one more thing I just realised: in a random game, if The Shadow is out the game, there would not be the WtD religion, and no orcs! It really makes a lot of sense.
Pariah
Outside Influence
FAO Thomas & Elda King:
I've finished putting my city lists into XML format.
CIV4CivilizationInfos
The file is not complete, however, since we have yet to define unique buildings or units for our civs. Haven't tested it yet either; would anyone else like to?
I've finished putting my city lists into XML format.
CIV4CivilizationInfos
The file is not complete, however, since we have yet to define unique buildings or units for our civs. Haven't tested it yet either; would anyone else like to?
thomas.berubeg
Wandering the World
Can you do the leaders to go along with this please? just make all the leaders identical, just change the name. it will be eaisier to test if you do so.
Pariah
Outside Influence
I'll go along wih this for now. Have the new leader traits (Wise, Seafaring, Destructive) been coded yet?
BTW I included an Angmar civ in the above file.
