amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
Normal weather patterns. Even if it has been getting warmer for the last 100 years, it's proof of nothing.Gelion said:
Climate Change
- Thread starter Rambuchan
- Start date
Having a Prime Minister does not mean there is a Monarch. Prime Ministers are, as the the name suggests, the most senior minister. Whether there is a Prime Minister or not depends entirely on the structure of government houses. Some nations have a President and Prime Minister.Reno said:
Gelion
Retired Captain
Now I know how to get you to replyrmsharpe said:
I do read reports on climate and related areas. Yes there are shifts in climate from warm to cold. Yes it is possible that the gap between min and max temperatures is increasing due to normal climate changes (although then it would make more sence if the "range" of temperatures was going up or down and not incrasing). However there are many factors that affect the environment including the pollution itself. Production pollution causes the disruption of many climatic processes and habitations of living beings. If there was no pollution and related problems I could accept this "normal weather patterns" theory.
Rambuchan
The Funky President
That's an excellent post storealex! I agree with everything you've said. It seems the weather change we are experiencing here is Europe wide. Also, yes, Blair has redeemed much of his bad name with his recent actions, together with Gordon Brown on the debt initiative.storealex said:
And let me reiterate this, albeit with some additions: "Lot's of us Europeans supported you in both Afghanistan and Iraq, but where is our reward? We helped you out, now please help us and stop polluting so much!"
I don't see it completley as a 'now where's our reward?', although that is a very good point. I see it mainly as 'we need to do it now for everyone's good. This is URGENT and IRREVERSIBLE and AFFECTS EVERYONE'.
And I don't see this as a issue specific to America. All nations have a responsibility, for we all face the consequence. America just gets mentioned a lot because it pollutes the most and does least about it. China is equally questioned about its rising energy needs and greenhouse gas output but they are largely towing the responsible line and still don't pollute anywhere near the amount the US does. And if there really are Americans who believe that all this is some conspiracy to shave 0.5% off their GDP off over the next 20 years, well then it simply confirms that the US is using Civ to train its best brains. That's akin to the 'liberals made Catholic priests paedophiles' tin foil hat.
I have no interest in discussing anything with RMS. Comments such as his are treated in the same way as the village drunk's. In one and out the other.
@ Reno: Took me a long while to get that map and all the other info but I will try to find more.
@ Stormbind: Thanks for the clarification on Iceland's constitution.
LouLong
In love with Rei Ayanami
As much as I like China and don't see any reason why they should not be allowed the same standards of living we have in the "West" I must say their booming economy (which they need to prevent social unrest as well) is definitely not energy-savvy so I hope they get rich enough soon enough to use their energy in a better way. Otherwise with their population and developing economy they will soon pass the US in this Hall of (In)Fame...
I read at the moment they use 7 times more energy for producing the same stuff as Japan...
Edit : BTW nothing personal against the US. It is just I saw things there that got me both puzzled and frightened (like a woman in a suburbs DRIVING to post one letter in a mailbox about 200 meters away from her home). I don't even want to precise she was on an extreme diet.... :lol as that would "spoil" the fun of it. And this is just one exemple. But she was actually a very nice person as most US citizens I have met.
I read at the moment they use 7 times more energy for producing the same stuff as Japan...
Edit : BTW nothing personal against the US. It is just I saw things there that got me both puzzled and frightened (like a woman in a suburbs DRIVING to post one letter in a mailbox about 200 meters away from her home). I don't even want to precise she was on an extreme diet.... :lol as that would "spoil" the fun of it. And this is just one exemple. But she was actually a very nice person as most US citizens I have met.
Rambuchan
The Funky President
Ready for some graphs?
Emissions
Rise of Global Temperatures:
Global Annual Temps
Comparative Warming Predictions
All from what seems to be an Australian / Pacific group of scientists. At this website: http://whyfiles.org/158glowarm_evid/5.html
In this pdf: http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/wg1TARtechsum.pdf
Emissions
Rise of Global Temperatures:
Global Annual Temps
Comparative Warming Predictions
All from what seems to be an Australian / Pacific group of scientists. At this website: http://whyfiles.org/158glowarm_evid/5.html
In this pdf: http://www.ipcc.ch/pub/wg1TARtechsum.pdf
There seems to be growing evidence and certainty as to global warming: Truth.
1. Even the pentagon has studies/reports/projections re impact to USA.
2. The Chairman of Shell corporation has stated in public conference his opinion that we need to do something now, if we are to have a chance, and not later.
3. Apparently, also, and in reference to Day After Tomorrow - even if it is largely hokey, though, apparently, roughly, sound - 5 of the 7 Arctic/Greenland temperature/sea water elevators are no longer operating - and this change has taken place in less than 30 years.
4. Also to the USA, it seems government thought even agrees with 'global warming' as fact, but declines to address it due to the vulnerability of the economy.
I notice RMSharpe playing devil's advocate asserting, roughly, that changes over just 100 years are nonesense - it seems a fair point to be cautious, given many earlier assertions to global warming were based on university exchanges of global mean temperature data - however, there is a great deal of further data available - and considering the issue over, even, millions of years.
It appears to me, on the face of evidence, that global warming is fact, and increasing in it's time/change velocity. It appears that, far from current trend of warming, we should probably be into a period of cooling.
Ultimately, I would say when corporations such as Shell are on the band-wagon, the issue should be taken seriously.
The alternative seems the grubbiest kind of theft - from our children. And money won't do my son any good if he has to use so much of it simply coping with the affects of our laziness/ idiocy/ greed.
EDIT for clarity/syntax
1. Even the pentagon has studies/reports/projections re impact to USA.
2. The Chairman of Shell corporation has stated in public conference his opinion that we need to do something now, if we are to have a chance, and not later.
3. Apparently, also, and in reference to Day After Tomorrow - even if it is largely hokey, though, apparently, roughly, sound - 5 of the 7 Arctic/Greenland temperature/sea water elevators are no longer operating - and this change has taken place in less than 30 years.
4. Also to the USA, it seems government thought even agrees with 'global warming' as fact, but declines to address it due to the vulnerability of the economy.
I notice RMSharpe playing devil's advocate asserting, roughly, that changes over just 100 years are nonesense - it seems a fair point to be cautious, given many earlier assertions to global warming were based on university exchanges of global mean temperature data - however, there is a great deal of further data available - and considering the issue over, even, millions of years.
It appears to me, on the face of evidence, that global warming is fact, and increasing in it's time/change velocity. It appears that, far from current trend of warming, we should probably be into a period of cooling.
Ultimately, I would say when corporations such as Shell are on the band-wagon, the issue should be taken seriously.
The alternative seems the grubbiest kind of theft - from our children. And money won't do my son any good if he has to use so much of it simply coping with the affects of our laziness/ idiocy/ greed.
EDIT for clarity/syntax
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
rmsharpe said:
Exactly
the ice age and extermination of 98% of all life on earthwas a perfectly natural occurance.
Thats why floods, bushfires, storms and hurricans are all pefectly normal and we humans should not do anything about it.
Gelion said:
At some point it comes down to a very basic understanding of chemistry - all those emissions Whether anyone likes it or not, they will have an affect.
LouLong said:
There seems a big complaint - 'if China doesn't have to, why should I?'
I think China should be held accountable - but while people also complain that the Kyoto Protocol isn't enough, I think it is at least a step.
At some point in the future it seems entirely possible that the nations who do something about the problem, could well be in a position to force the others, including China.
Tell me, how did you gather evidence of the amount of carbon dioxide in the air from 1000 AD? I wasn't aware they had modern day labs a thousand years ago. 
Oh no! The global temperature has risen 1.6 degrees! That's so important it may even be worth two exclamation marks!!
Oh no! The global temperature has risen 1.6 degrees! That's so important it may even be worth two exclamation marks!!
FriendlyFire
Codex WMDicanious
Elrohir said:Tell me, how did you gather evidence of the amount of carbon dioxide in the air from 1000 AD? I wasn't aware they had modern day labs a thousand years ago.
Oh no! The global temperature has risen 1.6 degrees! That's so important it may even be worth two exclamation marks!!
ROFLMAO
Yes they been drilling into ice shelfs beneath ice to measure carbon dioxide level and other composite gases.
Yes they have been taking samples of ice from mountain from all around the world and have been dateing them.
---
lol
Yeah cause you know the difference between fine weather and weather in which hurricans and violent storms occure is 3o degress
Cause a mear 3 degrees will render (vast) lands into unproductive barren and unliveable habitates.
Narz
keeping it real
Do you really believe that??rmsharpe said:
A more urgent worry than flooding in my view would be that the Gulf Stream might shift south. Great Britain would become a second Iceland in not very much time at all.
As history advances, the stakes go up. Eden and Babylon drained their wetlands and cut down their forests. Easter Islanders cut down their last tree to help build giant stone statues; as their ecosystem failed they fell to tribal warfare and knocked over all of each other's statues anyway. We build Wal-Marts, and drive SUVs, and create gigantic plastics dumps in the Pacific Ocean, and fill the air with debris, and destroy habitats, and buy useless garbage, and grow monocultured crops, and use chemicals to annihilate entire ecosystems (Vietnam, for example), and bury waste that will be radioactive for 50000 years. If we don't clean up our act, the world order will fall in this century due to poor resource management, pollution, and widespread ravages of climate change.
As history advances, the stakes go up. Eden and Babylon drained their wetlands and cut down their forests. Easter Islanders cut down their last tree to help build giant stone statues; as their ecosystem failed they fell to tribal warfare and knocked over all of each other's statues anyway. We build Wal-Marts, and drive SUVs, and create gigantic plastics dumps in the Pacific Ocean, and fill the air with debris, and destroy habitats, and buy useless garbage, and grow monocultured crops, and use chemicals to annihilate entire ecosystems (Vietnam, for example), and bury waste that will be radioactive for 50000 years. If we don't clean up our act, the world order will fall in this century due to poor resource management, pollution, and widespread ravages of climate change.
Shaihulud
Deity
We could set off a few nukes to reduce global warming.
amadeus
rad thibodeaux-xs
Would I have said it if I didn't?Narz said:
Reno: this was posted in the User-designed Maps thread, generated based on Cornell University projections of sea-level changes (assuming all ice melts, the level would rise by 80m). It's a little more extreme than this scenario, but you can get the idea.
And a helpful summary of the results from Cuivienen:
And a helpful summary of the results from Cuivienen:
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
stormbind said:
I know that Finland for example has a president and a prime minister. But just saying that Iceland does not have a monarch.
Reno
The Studio Ghibli Fanatic
@Taliesin Thanks for the map. 
